SELECT COMMITTEE ON TOURISM, SPORT and RECREATION debate -
Thursday, 11 Dec 1997

Vol. 1 No. 1

Estimates for Public Services, 1997.

Vote 35-Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation.

Vice-Chairman (Miss Coughlan)

I thank the Minister, the Minister of State and their officials for coming before the Committee to discuss the Estimate for the Department. The only item on the agenda for today's meeting is the consideration of a Supplementary Estimate for the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation.

It is proposed that an opening statement be taken from the Minister, the Fine Gael spokesperson and the Democratic Left spokesperson and then we will take general questions. I propose to go through each item of the Supplementary Estimate, subhead by subhead, as that might be a more orderly way of dealing with the business. I call on the Minister.

Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation (Dr. McDaid)

I thank you, Chairman, and the members of the Committee for this opportunity to elaborate on the details of the Supplementary Estimate for my Department's Vote. The additional expenditure proposed under this Supplementary Estimates relates exclusively to the tourism side of my Department and before going into the details, I believe it would be useful to review briefly the recent performance of the sector and put what I am now proposing into context.

One of the most striking features of Irish tourism in recent times has been the very high growth rates achieved by the sector. Over the past ten years Irish tourism has enjoyed astonishing success with visitor performance and revenue growth increasing annually. The recorded statistics for the sector show that the number of overseas visitors has increased from 2.4 million in 1988 to 4.7 million in 1996. Over the same period total foreign exchange earnings have more than doubled from £841 million to a staggering £1.9 billion. In addition, tourism now supports 108,000 jobs, an increase of 46,700 since 1987, and accounts for one in 12 of all jobs. I congratulate the policies of the various Governments for those staggering statistics.

The upward trend in visitor numbers, foreign revenue and employment vividly confirms that Irish tourism has been an outstanding success, one of the fastest growing sectors of the economy and, more importantly, a major contributor to Ireland's economic success. However, as we face the remainder of the decade the challenge for all of us to create further economic growth and employment has never been greater.

There is an overwhelming need, therefore, to enhance our competitive position vis-à-vis rival destinations and, in so doing, ensure that we sustain growth levels in tourism performance and expand market share worldwide.

Selling Ireland abroad as a holiday destination is one of the most important and crucial investments we can make for the future of this economy. Given the necessary support from the Government but, I stress, more importantly from the industry itself, the Irish tourism sector has the capacity to meet the Government's target of increasing foreign tourism revenue to £2.25 billion by 1999 thereby creating 35,000 job equivalents.

At national level the indications are that 1997 will be yet another record year for overseas visitor numbers and revenue. It is likely that the targets of 7 per cent growth in visitor numbers and 9 per cent in foreign revenue will not alone be achieved but may even be exceeded. Having said that, I am aware of concerns that the increase in tourism growth is not equitably distributed throughout all regions and that although all regions - and I point this out continuously - have shared in tourism revenue growth rates, which are better than international and European averages, there have been variations in performance. Strong performance in the British and North American markets has driven the national increases, but the smaller growth from mainland Europe - including a decline in business from Germany, which may be due in part to economic difficulties there - has disproportionately affected the west. Research undertaken last year by the Irish Tourist Industry Confederation showed that all regions grew. The rate concerned me, however, because it is in the west that tourism is the main industry through which we can generate substantial employment over a short period.

From the beginning of my tenure as Minister with responsibility for tourism I fully recognised that one of the most important and immediate tasks was to ensure that, with the support of the sector itself, sufficient resources would be made available to sell Ireland in the foreign marketplace. With research indicating that over 51 jobs are supported by every million pounds of overseas tourism expenditure and 36 jobs per million pounds of domestic tourism expenditure, it was very evident how significant the potential economic impact could be on those areas which are currently lagging behind if they can be helped to increase their tourism capacity. Accordingly, I was also determined to encourage a better regional spread of tourism benefits and to ensure that the needs of all regions in this regard were addressed.

That is the background against which this request for supplementary funding for my Department arises. The purpose is to facilitate increased payments by Bord Fáilte in respect of its 1997-8 marketing programme before year end, which will allow more marketing by the company in 1998. At my request, therefore, Bord Fáilte has come up with proposals to increase and intensify its level of promotional activity for the coming tourist season. It has devised a multi-layered approach which consists of enhancing existing programmes, introducing new regional initiatives and exploiting opportunities which are coming on stream.

Furthermore, it is intended to secure a regional emphasis in the activities proposed and to maximise the return by integrating activity at local, regional and national levels. This new approach, which consists of ten initiatives, is divided into three elements: national programmes, regional initiatives and special projects.

In the case of national programmes, it is proposed to supplement the existing destination marketing campaigns carried out by Bord Fáilte, its advertising partners and the Overseas Tourism Marketing Initiative - OTMI. The availability of additional funds will permit an earlier and more extensive presence in the four main markets of Britain, the US, France and Germany as well as increased activity in the developing markets of Scandinavia, the Benelux countries and Australia. The rationale of this investment is based on the use of advertising campaigns to create awareness of Ireland as a destination and thus improve the environment for and success rate of other marketing activity.

Bord Fáilte proposes to use some of the proposed funds to support the development of the 1998 campaign, particularly the press campaign. As part of the development, an extensive new photographic shoot would be carried out which would extend the range and quality of material available to support regional marketing.

Integral to the continued development of the award winning Tourism Ireland Internet site and capabilities will be the introduction of sections of the main site for each tourism region. In certain cases individual county and area sites will also be facilitated to link to the main site.

Last year a travel agents' education programme was initiated in Britain and proved to be highly successful in educating tourism retailers not only about Ireland generally but on the various products and regions which make up the destination. It is now proposed to extend this programme to the US and Europe where it will be invaluable in increasing the knowledge of those people who ultimately "sell" Ireland in those markets.

Moving on to the specific regional initiatives, it is intended to introduce a range of advertising, publicity and other activities in the area of niche marketing. Here the aim will be to select those products which offer the best return in those markets with the best likelihood of success. As the products envisaged for targeting by Bord Fáilte - angling, golf, equestrian activities, walking, culture and so on - form the major products of the regions in question, there will be automatic benefits for the regional distribution objective.

Another initiative which will be used to secure direct regional impact proposes that funds will be provided to each of the regional tourism authorities. These funds, which will be made available on a sliding scale based on priority, will be used to integrate and supplement local and regional marketing activity already planned. In this regard, it is expected that all planned expenditure by each authority will be carried out in a fashion entirely consistent with national destination spends. In practical terms this may mean that any regional marketing activity to be covered by the measure will require approval by Bord Fáilte before payments are made.

Although major strides have been made in advancing the seasonality profile of Irish tourism, further opportunities exist to improve plant utilisation, particularly in the less developed regions. It is proposed to extend the already successful investment in developing new, early season events such as the Celtic Flame Festival and the national St. Patrick's Day Festival. This will also be included in the Supplementary Estimate.

In the area of special projects it is intended to provide marketing support for the introduction of new air services from the US to both Shannon and Dublin. It is also intended to build on Tour de France publicity, which is a major opportunity for Ireland in 1998, not just in France but across all Europe and Britain. Due to the scale and importance of this project, it is anticipated that the benefits of this promotional initiative will be secured for several years beyond 1998.

An exciting opportunity exists whereby an Australian television company would carry out a week long series of programmes from Ireland in 1998. These programmes, which it is proposed to support, would be broadcast from different parts of Ireland, thus increasing regional awareness in one of our rapidly developing markets. Overall, this programme, which it is intended will commence immediately and will be substantially completed in the first quarter of 1998, represents an important opportunity to ensure significant tourism growth continues apace and that the benefits are felt throughout the country.

However, if the success story of Irish tourism is to be sustained, marketing Ireland abroad will also have to receive support not only from the Exchequer but in increasing amounts from the tourism industry itself. If we are to be able to compete in the future, particularly in the fast approaching post-1999 situation, Irish tourism will have to be able to draw resources from a much wider pool of sources than it does now. Compared to Ireland, the countries throughout Europe with whom we compete draw on large contributions raised directly by the tourism industry. Bord Fáilte is engaged in discussions with our industry with a view to ensuring the efforts of Government are matched by the tourism industry in funding their international marketing programmes.

I will now deal briefly with adjustments in various subheads under the Vote which partly offset the increased funds required under the Supplementary Estimate. Under subhead H-Appropriations-in-Aid - a deficiency of just less than £3 million is expected mainly in respect of ESF receipts under the urban initiative and the Programme for Peace and Reconciliation. A repro-filing of expenditure under these programmes has resulted in a slower than expected rate of drawdown in 1997 which in turn has resulted in a reduced level of receipts under these programmes.

The saving of just over £3 million under subhead G.1 Local Development - arises primarily on the technical assistance programme of the operational programme for local and rural development. Certain costs for computerisation and to fund recommendations of the programme's mid-term evaluation will not fall due in 1997.

Under subhead G.2 - Urban Initiative - a saving of approximately £3.6 million is expected. Funding under this programme is allocated to certain targeted urban areas on the basis of comprehensive strategies and action plans submitted by those areas. The preparation of these has taken longer than expected resulting in a slower drawdown of funds in 1997.

Under subhead G.3 - Programme for Peace and Reconciliation - a saving of just over £1 million will arise. As with the urban initiative, the effort required to ensure that strategies, action plans and projects were properly prepared and evaluated has resulted in a slower drawdown of funds in 1997.

It is important to remember that the above programmes, as with all EU programmes, will continue until the end of the current round of the CSF in 1999. Therefore, funds not spent in any one year may be carried forward to be spent in subsequent years. Similarly, EU receipts under these programmes not realised in 1997 are merely delayed until a subsequent period.

In conclusion, I thank the Chairman and the other Members of the committee for the opportunity to make this presentation today. l will be happy to answer any questions on the detail of the Supplementary Estimate in conjunction with my colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Flood.

Mr. Allen

I thank the Minister for his contribution. I know he deems himself very lucky to have inherited a situation where tourism is on a strong footing. The growth figures for this and previous years were the result of good planning by different Ministers and the Department over a period of time. He has inherited a situation where a number of high profile sports tourism projects are coming to this country.

The Minister gave an overall view of the initiatives being taken at national level to deal with what I term the blackspots. The east coast has experienced unprecedented growth in double digit figures whereas other areas, such as the north-west, the south-west and the west, have had what is termed a patchy performance this year. The Minister has given a sketchy view of the proposals being put in place. I find it strange that as regards excess, no reference was made to the massive loss which resulted from the withdrawal of Irish Ferries in the south west corridor. Although he refers to the excess problem concerning the marketing strategy for Shannon and Dublin Airports, they only deal with certain parts of the country.

The Minister made commitments early in his Ministry that regional tourism organisations would be upgraded, and he has given a commitment here to certain increases in funding. Will he flesh out the commitment given in the Government programme relating to regional tourism organisations and how he proposes to upgrade them?

The Minister for Finance replied to a question on Structural Funds in the Dáil last week by saying that the national convention centre was one of the projects which had a question mark over it. He stated that £33 million in Structural Funds was allocated for the project and that it was now on a list of projects which must be considered for withdrawal of those funds in the spring of 1998. That seems to contradict what the Minister present said in the Dáil last week - he said he was very confident the national conference centre would go ahead. Is there now a serious question mark over that project in that it is now on a list for the withdrawal of funding? Why did the Minister scrap the initiative taken by his predecessor? I know there was a dispute between the Carlton Group and the Department at the time, but my information and impression were the problem was not insurmountable. The Minister scrapped the project and entered into a new tendering process. Does this, with the fact that it is now included on a list of projects which may possibly have funds withdrawn, put a major question mark on the national conference centre? Will the Minister explain in detail his position?

The fact that sport has moved to tourism means it is seen as an area of potential growth in future. The Minister was reported as making a statement last week on the 50 metre swimming pool. The project has significant tourism potential. Has the Minister allocated specific money for this or is he just repeating a process already gone through where projects were invited and submitted? Has specific money been set aside? What is the status of the projects already submitted to the Department?

I welcome any money invested in sport. I would not begrudge the £20 million given to the GAA. It is an excellent project. I take it in the context of the 1,500 applications for projects worth about £500 million and grant applications to the value of £48.2 million. Did the Minister make the decision on the GAA in the context of the national strategy for sport published in February? That plan set out a policy for national, regional and local projects. Can the Minister put the Croke Park investment in the context of the national strategy for sport? Is he following that strategy or is this an isolated decision? I welcome the allocation. I hope the Minister will use the same parameters on any project submitted by other major sporting organisations. We need a national, multi-functional stadium.

In a speech to the Forum 2000 business seminar, the Minister spoke of the hard work, poor pay and unsocial hours hindering the development of tourism as a career for young people. The shortage of skilled labour will be a major inhibiting factor in the growth of tourism - it is already being experienced. What consultations has the Minister had with the hotels federation and CERT on the availability of skilled labour?

The Programme for Government gave a commitment to a tourism development fund to deal with the future needs of the industry. What has the Minister done about this since taking office? The Minister spoke about adjusting the taxation system to encourage investment in tourism. What has been done to encourage the development of standards in tourism projects and services?

What policy has the Minister on the urban heritage and tourism commitment given in the Programme for Government? The Minister also proposed a shift in tax policy to encourage private sector investment in tourism, sport and recreation. I see no evidence of this.

The Minister and I were the subject of a lambasting by the President of the Olympic Council of Ireland. A commitment was given by Mr. Hickey that he would submit the quarterly cashflow statements which I looked for earlier this year. These were not received by the Department before I left office. The Minister was promised a copy of those statements last Tuesday morning. Have they arrived? It is strange that the leader of a major sporting organisation continues to speak through his solicitors rather than being accountable personally.

Last week I raised the issue of funding which had not been paid to athletes. This was a valid point and the Minister was forthright in his comments. I am upset that the money was not paid to the athletes as intended. Misleading statements were made earlier this year that, because of cashflow problems, athletes' medical expenses could not be paid and there was a threat that staff would have to be laid off. At the same time, this money was lying in the accounts of the Olympic Council. Has this man come clean with a cashflow statement since the organisation's AGM last Monday?

Ms McManus

On a morning when 1,400 workers are grieving over the loss of their jobs, it reminds us of the ephemeral nature of international companies manufacturing in Ireland, the possibility that other companies will withdraw and how important it is that we develop our tourism base rooted in our natural and local resources. It is interesting to note that the estimates for the number of jobs to be created by a national conference centre are equivalent to the numbers employed by Seagate in Clonmel. I would like clarification on the national conference centre. I have views on its location but we are in agreement that it is a vital facility.

We must recognise that many of the jobs in tourism are seasonal and low paid. In some sectors there is a difficulty attracting workers. Would the Minister comment on pay and the proposal for a national minimum wage? How does he see this in terms of the tourism industry? We must ensure a flow of workers and see that training facilities are adapted to the needs of those in the industry. In some cases, people have to leave their jobs for lengthy periods for training. A day release system is more attractive where, for example, a hotel wishes to hold on to staff and encourage training. What flexibility can be built into the training system to ensure that we meet future needs?

I welcome the fact that the Minister has been trenchant in his views on litter, discourtesy and bad value. These are key points and if we do not get them right they will have a bad impact on tourism growth. The Minister should be clear and take a more engaged view on the sustainability of our tourism product. If we are to create 35,000 jobs by 1999, which the Minister is keen to do, we will have to extend the season and develop new niches. We already have sites and locations experiencing overload. This must be dealt with in a competent manner. I was concerned at the manner in which the Minister handled the logo issue. That sent out a bad message and I hope this does not figure in his future work. I wish him well; he is committed to his brief.

The growth in tourism is unevenly based. I make no apology for speaking on behalf of my county. I wish to nail the idea that the eastern region, in totality, has benefited at the expense of other regions. I live in the shadow of Dublin. We are losing out, as we have done for a long time. We have suffered as a consequence of living in the shadow of Dublin. What should be an opportunity is often a limitation. I am concerned at what has happened, particularly in light of the budget where the Minister for Finance has outlined a new hotel support scheme in which, on the one hand, supports for good quality bed spaces have been curtailed and on the other, he is earmarking certain counties for special treatment for support for hotel development. He pinpointed certain counties such as Cavan and Monaghan. I have no problem with that but I wonder if the needs of counties such as Donegal could be equivalent to those of County Wicklow. There is a chronic lack of bed spaces in Wicklow. The county's biggest problem is that it receives most of its visitors from Dublin but the primary benefits it receives are marginal and include litter and traffic jams. Wicklow does not have the same holding power as other counties and this hotel development will crucify any chance the county has of developing good quality hotel spaces.

The Minister will have to deal with the EU Commissioner with regard to this budget proposal. I urge him to examine what is happening in County Wicklow as opposed to seeing the county as an amorphous mass connected to Dublin. Wicklow tourism has problems and the county has unemployment problems which must be dealt with.

Local development has been removed from the Department of the Taoiseach and allocated to the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation. The transfer is not necessarily a bad idea. The Minister said there was a slowness in drawing down funds. I do not understand what reprofiling means in this context and perhaps the Minister would clarify it. Usually there are funds from the Exchequer or local sources to match European funds. Can the Minister clarify if that applies in this case?

The Minister itemised the markets he intends to pursue, the steady markets and the markets that can be developed. What is his opinion of the Asian market? One of Ireland's main attractions is its golf courses and golf sells well in certain Asian countries. In Britain and other countries the number of Asian tourists is substantial, but we do not appear to have that tourist profile. We tend not to see Asia as an opportunity but there is room for expansion in that market. ManyAsians visit Britain as tourists. Would it be possible to add Ireland to their itinerary?

With regard to air services, I have received a number of complaints from people who work in the hi-tech information technology sector. Seattle in America is the base for this type of industry and a number of people travel on business from Seattle to London to Dublin because there is no direct flight from Seattle to Dublin. On some flights most of the people who disembark at London travel on to Dublin. Is it possible to establish a direct flight between the two cities? It would have tourism attractions as well.

Although it is not related to the Supplementary Estimate, can the Minister of State give the Committee an update on the drugs initiative? It is bizarre that this initiative ended up under the aegis of the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation. The places where drugs initiative money will be spent are the places no tourist is likely to visit. However, I am pleased this Minister of State was given the job and I am confident he will take it seriously. Can he clarify the current position of the drugs initiative? People are anxious to know if their projects can proceed and it is important the Minister of State takes this opportunity to give out accurate information.

Chairman

There are approximately 15 minutes for questions and answers. Perhaps the Minister would address items which have already been raised, after which Members can ask questions.

Dr. McDaid

I will reply to Deputy Allen first. I have always accepted that the policies of different Governments and Ministers created the Celtic tiger and tourism is the tiger's most vivacious cub. However, tiger cubs have a propensity to devour unless they are catered for and it is my job and the job of future Ministers to ensure this industry remains strong and capable. What is happening today is to the credit of my predecessors and I will be judged by what will happen in the next few years.

With regard to the Ryder Cup, the Tour de France and the Tall Ships race, I agree these events were in the pipeline. However, there is no point going to the fair and bidding for a bullock unless one has money in one’s pocket. I had to go to the Minister for Finance and argue about how much he was prepared to give me to go to the PGA and arrange the event. One can talk all day but unless one has money in one’s pocket there is no point in such talk. The Department of Finance was able to give us a certain amount. We then went to the private sector and, with its involvement, made deals with bodies such as the PGA. That is how it was done. One must have money in one’s pocket to conclude such a deal. I met with the PGA yesterday and brought the process a step further.

We discussed the loss of Irish Ferries in the Dáil. I do not agree that it will hinder the south-west. There was a decrease of 85,000 in the number of people travelling by sea from the continent but this was more than compensated for by an increase of 153,000 people who travelled here by air. There has been a degree of over-compensation between air and sea travel but the figures for people coming to Ireland have increased. Deputy Allen must agree that the south will be getting a fair crack of the whip next year. The Tour de France and other events will take place and will more that compensate for any loss. The decision about the ferries was taken by a private company. I intend to allocate funding to the regional tourism organisations and I will announce the details in the next few weeks.

With regard to the national conference centre, I have received no complaints about it from the European Union. We consulted with the EU with regard to the regulations and stipulations that are required and I received no complaints.

Mr. Allen

I did not say there were complaints. I asked why the original proposal to proceed with the RDS was scrapped.

Dr. McDaid

It was scrapped because the project was off the rails. There was a complaint about it and the European Commission was looking at it seriously. In consultation with the European Commission we decided this would be the best approach to proceed with the convention centre. It is imperative that this project should proceed. It can bring a great deal of incentive business to this country and keep this particular tiger cub healthy. As the future leading industry in this country, it is imperative that we get this centre. I have begged other areas not to sabotage or undermine the excellent proposals in place. Let us get on with the proposals and let the best person win because Ireland Incorporated will win in the long-term.

Mr. Allen

Are people trying to sabotage the proposal?

Dr. McDaid

I have read articles in newspapers for which there is no basis. Inquiries were made to Bord Fáilte but there were no problems from the EU. However, I sense, beneath the surface, that something is going on that might try to derail this important convention centre. I ask everyone to think like Irish business people and realise that the tourism industry is one of the mainstays of this economy. It is in all our interest to allow the competition to proceed and that the best proposal will be successful. Although the EU Commission has stipulated that the convention centre must be in Dublin, I can assure you that wherever it is it will benefit the entire country. As you know the problem with the national convention centre was of a legal nature. My legal advisers informed me that we would have lost it and that is why it had to be readvertised. We now have six excellent proposals supported by the EU and we hope to have a winner by the end of March 1998.

There is the political will to go ahead with a 50 metre swimming pool. However I have to follow public procurement procedures. I will ensure that we comply with EU regulations and there will be an advertisement in newspapers within a fortnight. The proposals will be in accordance with public procurement procedure which allows me 12 days to put in the pin and 39 days for the acceptance of other proposals which would take me to a date in February and my Department will scrutinise them and nominate a winner. The Minister for Finance has indicated that he will look favourably upon the proposals. Past proposals can also be revisited. As I said the advertisement for tender will be in the national press within two weeks and I hope to make an announcement in March.

Like Deputy Allen, I too welcome the money provided for the GAA. This is not taxpayers' money but national lottery money. Earlier this year £7 million from lottery funds was given to the GAA to help build its state of the art stadium. It will take a few years to complete a new stadium. The Deputy will agree that over the past few years the general public felt more lottery money should be directed towards sport and this is an extra percentage for sport. Of course we will have our critics because the GAA benefited and we anticipated such criticism.

We will always have criticism and if it was not one Deputy it would be another. I believe that in the past we have been doling out our funding in minimal amounts to small communities or clubs on a political basis rather than giving it to a particular club allowing them continue their work and seeing something rise from the ground.

I have almost £18 million of lottery funding commitments at the moment but when I sought architect certificates as proof of finished projects I could only get about £0.5 million worth. Clubs were applying for £50,000 for projects, they raised £25,000, received £5,000 and were still £20,000 short. I do not blame the clubs for not being able to come up with the finance but we scatter these minimal amounts all over the country. It is better to finance one club and let three down because then at least one club will be able to complete a project. I had money this year but unfortunately that was all I was able to do.

This year I intend to insert a "sunset" clause on the new funding, in other words, if a project is not up and running within six months or a year, then it goes back to the end of the queue. We should at least allow the rest of them to get up and running. We will have to get support for this across the board because the clubs have committed themselves in good faith but the amounts being doled out are too low and, as a result, nothing is being finished. As regards the GAA let us get some funding into it and let us get some projects up and running which we can see come to fruition.

At the Forum 2000 seminar the issues of wages, poor working conditions, unsocial hours and low pay in the tourism sector were raised. I have raised these issues on a number of occasions. Most people will agree that the tourism industry is booming but its image is poor. To offset this image the Irish Hotel Federation has introduced an employer quality mark. It is a start and I hope they will proceed with the scheme.

Deputy McManus mentioned tax incentives. I do not think she realises the devastation which the Border counties suffered over the past few years. In my opinion the six southern Border counties have suffered more in the past 25 years than the Six Counties in the North. In the North when petrol stations, small businesses or shops were bombed during the Troubles the British pride manifested itself by investing money and building them up ten times better than before. As a result there was devastation and ghost towns on the southern side of the Border because there was nothing being invested in that economy. That is why I asked the Minister to establish a special incentive area. First, the tourism industry is the only way we an increase employment in the West and the Border counties. Second, I am confident the ceasefire will continue and the investment in these special incentive areas will be rewarded.

I believe, as Deputy McManus has already mentioned, that if the economy of an area of major disadvantage starts to improve the lifestyle of everyone, particularly the young, will make it difficult for people to resort to violence. I make no apology for trying to get more funding for these areas and people have accepted that those areas need a degree of attention. I do not know whether any Member has criticised that incentive.

Ms McManus

Perhaps the Minister is not listening very well.

Dr. McDaid

Perhaps not, but what I have heard is that more areas could have been included rather than criticism of the areas that were included.

On the subject of litter, last week we met with Commissioner Mathies and announced a £3 million initiative which did not receive the profile it should have. However, I will make an announcement on it in January or February. We have established a £3 million fund for which local authorities, community groups, etc., can apply with ideas on how to eliminate the litter problem. When we established the fund I said its main aim was not to become another Spain. We recognise the mistakes made there and we do not want to repeat them.

The revenue from the regions indicate there was a 85 per cent increase in revenue on the east coast in the past three years in comparison to 21 per cent in the north-west. We must have a better regional spread, which is the idea behind the Supplementary Estimate and I accept what Deputy McManus said. The east coast extends from Louth to Wexford. The Dublin area has been successful because of the city break initiative, among others. Dublin is the leading cosmopolitan city in Europe. However, Dublin is not the only county on the east coast and Louth and Wicklow have not benefited to the same extent.

A good point was raised about the Asian market. I told the story about being in Valderrama where the Japanese are avid golfers and big spenders. Whoever is on the first tee on 1 June 1998 will be a very lucky man or woman. We have spoken to a number of people regarding this matter. Since marketing is expensive it is a question of how to do it best. We want to meet these people and introduce them to Ireland. With the advent of the Ryder Cup, the Asian market is beginning to realise that Ireland has golf courses. It will be expensive but we must tap into the market. If we can interest the Japanese and other Asians it will be a worthwhile exercise.

While we are discussing golfing, the day before yesterday we opened a Swedish Academy. There has been an academy in Spain for the past five years. Young golfers are brought to the academy and taught how to play golf on the world stage. As Deputies will probably see on Sky Television, Spain now has 54 golfers in the world rankings, even though it has few golf courses. The academy decided to move here for the next five years which is a huge impetus to our golf. I support the idea that we act as ambassadors and try to attract the Asian market at the least cost possible.

I have continuously pointed out to the OCI that I am looking for its cashflow statements and bank balances. I was astounded at some of the information the Deputy gave me on independent private funding. I do not want to start an argument with the OCI but I was forced into a situation where the President was giving me information which would cause redundancies, a move I was not prepared to make. The simple solution was to provide cashflow statements and bank balances. I have not received them but I am sure they will be on my desk shortly.

The issue of drugs could not be in more capable hands than those of Deputy Flood who comes from Tallaght. Sport and recreation are included in the area of local development and we are trying to target large areas in cities.

Minister of State at the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation (Mr. Flood)

I welcome the opportunity to say a few words on the drugs initiative to date, at the request of Deputy McManus. As Deputies are aware, the previous Administration established a ministerial task force to target blackspots of heroin abuse. Arising from the excellent work carried out by that committee, which was chaired by my constituency colleague, Deputy Rabbitte, 13 task forces were established, 12 of them in Dublin and one in north Cork.

The significant element in those task forces was the decision to involve the voluntary and community sectors as well as the statutory sector. The strength of individual task forces is that voluntary and community sectors who are trying to defend their communities are involved in local task forces and given the opportunity to work with the statutory sector. This experiment has worked extremely well.

The national drugs strategy team which is responsible to me in my role as the Minister of State monitors the work of and liaises with the 13 task forces in Dublin and Cork. Each local task force was requested to draw up a plan as to how it might tackle heroin abuse in its area. These plans were then sent to the national drugs strategy team for evaluation. The previous Administration decided not to wait for all the plans to be evaluated together but rather to make interim decisions on receipt of plans; it made interim decisions on about eight of the plans. When I took office further approval for interim funding was given, bringing the figure up to 11. Two outstanding plans involving Blanchardstown and Cork took some time to evaluate for various reasons.

The first tranche of approvals on the interim plans amounted to £4.8 million. A sum of £10 million was set aside by the previous Administration to fund this year's implementation of local drugs task force plans. We are bringing a memorandum to Government before Christmas because we have now carried out the final evaluation of the plans in their entirety. This memorandum will seek approval for the remainder of each individual plan to allow the local task forces to implement them.

The Government decided to give my Department responsibility for this issue because the Taoiseach felt that, to build on the excellent work of the ministerial task force reports and their implementation, we needed to move further and expand the original committee. The Government therefore established a Cabinet subcommittee on social inclusion, local development and drugs. As part of this exercise we will continue to focus on the local task force areas where there is major drug misuse.

Local development, including area partnerships, will play a significant role in identifying the causes that give rise to certain areas, particularly urban areas, being ravaged by the effects of drugs misuse, particularly heroin. Consequently, my objective in using the local development hat is that we must go back to these areas, based on the fact that the local task force reports and action plans are being implemented and tackle the causes in a co-ordinated fashion. Members may be aware that in his budget speech the Minister for Finance announced a sum of £750,000 for the establishment of a number of pilot projects to deal with the co-ordination and delivery of services to these areas. Recognising that the areas suffering most from heroin abuse are clearly identifiable and are largely the areas covered by the local task forces, and recognising the under-lying causes heroin abuse has taken hold in these areas and the excellent work of the task forces and national drugs strategy team, we must move on to the next phase which is to tackle the underlying causes which give rise to such abuse. This is a result of decades of neglect. Delivery of services to these areas must now be co-ordinated, working in particular with the local communities.

Chairman

I apologise to the Minister, Minister of State, his officials and Members of the Committee for my late arrival. I ran into difficulties in another place and I was unsure of my position. However, under Standing Orders it is permissible for me to be here and I thank the Vice-Chairman for filling in in the meantime.

I thank the Minister and Minister of State for replying to the debate and the opening remarks of the spokespersons.

Mr. M. Brennan

I welcome the Minister and Minister of State who are doing a good job in the area of tourism.

Extra flights from North America to Shannon and Dublin were mentioned. Knock Airport is capable of taking extra flights. Chartered flights are arriving at Knock Airport at present where there is a big runway that can take any size plane. If tourism is to be boosted in the west, there must be a continuation of chartered flights into Knock Airport. Recently I was critical of Aer Lingus for the way in which it treated Sligo Airport and Carrickfin Airport in County Donegal. They are the only two feeder airports which are not getting a service. I ask the Minister to negotiate with Aer Lingus to have flights from Dublin to Knock, Knock to Sligo and Sligo to Carrickfin. They could drop passengers off and pick others up to increase air flights to that part of the country if tourism in the west to be developed.

Deputy McManus criticised the Minister for the lack hotels in County Wicklow. I welcome the expansion of new hotels in Border counties, particularly in Sligo-Leitrim. Border counties have suffered over many years as a result of the troubles in Northern Ireland, but the peace process should be of great benefit to that area.

Mr. Allen

What discussions did the Minister have with the Minister for Finance regarding the national conference centre in view of the fact that it is among the projects listed as being at risk and the latter's statement that £33 million will be decommitted by the spring? Minister McCreevy said in the Dáil that the funding for the national conference centre and the new sustainable tourism measures to deal with congestion will be provided from savings within the natural cultural sub-programme. What cutbacks or savings are being implemented in the natural-cultural sub-programme? I refer to Minister McCreevy's reply in the Dáil on 19 November 1997 in response to a question on Community support framework funding when he stated:

A new sustainable tourism measure is being proposed. This will tackle on a pilot basis congestion problems in the areas of high demand and it is proposed to provide three million ecu for this purpose. Also in order to increase the value added to the economy, an additional three million ecu is being provided for marketing this aspect of the tourism programme. This additional expenditure will be funded from some of the savings within the natural-cultural sub-programme.

I would like to know how these savings are being achieved.

Ms McManus

Will the Minister send me the figures regarding three star bed spaces in the designated counties and three star bed spaces in County Wicklow? The previous Government made a very firm decision on £20 million relating to the Criminal Assets Bureau. The fund was to be based on money seized by the bureau and used for recreational and rehabilitation purposes in areas other than task force. There is a drugs problem in my area of Bray and people felt the task force structure too restrictive and that there was an opportunity to provide rehabilitation. There are treatment centres now in operation which no one dreamed would be so effective, but we need rehabilitation and recreational opportunities for young people. Is the Minister now saying that is not available and that we will be dealing solely with the task forces?

Mr. Timmins

Wicklow suffers from being in the shadow of Dublin. The Minister mentioned a growth of 85 per cent in the east coast as opposed to 21 per cent in the north-west. Parts of County Wicklow are psychologically a great distance from Dublin. I understood from the budget speech that the scheme was introduced to increase the number of three star hotels. I believe County Wicklow has 13 such hotels, as has County Mayo. County Donegal has 35 such hotels and I am glad they are included in the scheme. However, I would like the Minister to consider the unique position of County Wicklow. Prior to the budget I provided a basic concept of a project based on rural renewal and tax incentives to improve tourism in Wicklow.

Wicklow is a unique county, it is in close proximity to 30 per cent of the country's population and has tremendous untapped potential. When looking at the Upper Shannon region project, the Minister might consider the inclusion of Wicklow or look at the case which could be made for the county.

Chairman

The Minister was asked several questions about the Border, savings and how they are achieved and about Wicklow and Tipperary, which he visited recently. Perhaps the Minister of State will deal with the drugs question which Deputy McManus asked.

Dr. McDaid

On Deputy Brennan's question, of course we need to improve regional airports and access to them but that is a matter for the airlines. Even the charter business is a matter for the airlines. Funding was recently provided to upgrade the infrastructure of the airports and I hope that will go some way to improve the regional airports in an evolutionary way so that they will be able to bring in major charters. Knock Airport is capable of handling charters. The idea of a Dublin / Donegal / Knock/ Sligo / Carrickfinn circle has not been put to me previously. The Deputy might suggest it to some of the local airlines to see if it is feasible. I would not be able answer him. It seems a reasonable idea in the abstract but when it becomes three dimensional, I wonder if it would be feasible. However, it would be desirable.

The airports are main points of entry to the regions. We have major problems attracting tourists to the west coast unless we get US visitors to land there. Some 2.5 million people come from the UK each year. When these people land, they are prepared to drive to the west. These people, if treated well, tend to come back. They are in a niche area and visit for specific reasons - for example, fishing, angling, etc. More could be done in the UK market more cheaply and with a greater take from it. Increased marketing in the UK, particularly in the north of England and perhaps Scotland, would attract people who would benefit the regions. The east coast will, undoubtedly, benefit from the influx from the United States. It helps if the regional airports are able to attract people. I have met all those involved with the airports, including operators, tour companies and others, who all have different ideas on the matter. We need a co-ordinated approach. Step by step we must improve the infrastructure in the regional airports and the regions will benefit as a result.

On the conference centre, the CSF review referred to the outstanding areas which would be reviewed in the spring but that is all. The conference centre is back on-stream. We will be able to announce the successful applicant in March, which is in keeping with what the EU asked. If we have a successful applicant, we will be on course.

There is a "sunset" clause; the EU must bring in areas which have not yet been drawn down and which have not come to fruition and, it happens, that is one of them. We recognise that but it is the reason there is a new competition on-stream. As I said we hope to announce the successful applicant in March. If anything, we are ahead as regards the conference centre.

On the transfer of funding from the Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, this question is probably more appropriate to that Department. Some £10 million was available - £4 million was transferred to infrastructure, while the remaining £6 million was transferred to this Department to market the cultural aspects of tourism and to environmental issues. The Deputy will have to ask the Minister for Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands why it could not use the funding.

Chairman

Would that also include such projects as the Excel project which had difficulty getting sufficient funding?

Dr. McDaid

I am aware of the excellent Excel project. It would probably include this area. This money is for tourism marketing. The Excel project would relate to the Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands, although there is a tourism aspect. On the millennium project, the Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and the Islands and the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation will try to get a package together and I have asked for proposals.

Mr. Allen

Is the Minister sure he is correct because this states it is the natural-cultural sub-programme of the tourism operational programme? I understood the natural sub-programme was the responsibility of the Department of Tourism, Sport and Recreation.

Dr. McDaid

No.

In response to Deputy Timmons, I have been to Wicklow many times and during the summer I could not get a place to stay in the main hotels. I understand the problem in Wicklow. The Deputy said it was in the shadow of Dublin. I assume it is included in this vision of the east coast; perhaps it is unfair of me and the Commission to regard it as part of the east coast. Dublin has benefited more than other locations on the east coast but certain parts have not benefited. There is huge potential for Wicklow in a niche area.

From 1989 to 1993 and from 1994 onwards, there has been a successful uptake of European funds which has been well managed and used for excellent products throughout the country and some areas may have received more than their fair share. We must move away from copying products. If something works in one area, it does not mean it will work in another. By copying something we only dilute it. As I said in my Forum 2000 speech, we must recognise niche areas in and around the product we have developed from EU funds over the years. Wicklow has huge potential in this area as it is a lovely county. The Deputy will accept that if Dublin has had an increase of 85 per cent in tourism revenue, there should be a ripple effect extending to Wicklow. There is the argument about Wicklow being in the shadow of Dublin and I presume I will continue to hear it.

Ms McManus

I asked a specific question regarding accommodation.

Dr. McDaid

I will try to get that information for the Deputy.

Mr. Flood

Deputy McManus referred to a special fund associated with the ministerial task force reports. The recommendation was that a youth services development fund of £20 million be established to cover a three year period. While £10 million was provided earlier this year by the previous Administration to establish the local task forces, no money was provided for the service development fund. However, the Government has accepted the recommendation of the task force. According to the Minister for Finance's Budget Statement, agreement has been reached and the youth services development fund will be established from 1 January 1998. It has been decided to administer the fund through the youth affairs section of the Department of Education and Science, but allocations from the fund will be made on the recommendation of the Cabinet subcommittee on social inclusion, local development and drugs.

I will have a significant input on how those funds are allocated and to what areas. The ministerial task force reports recommended that the fund be largely but not exclusively geared towards the task force areas. There is room to utilise the fund for other areas such as those referred to by Deputy McManus and of which she has experience.

I am conscious that drug misuse is not confined to the task force areas, but the task force included 13 areas determined by the Government as being of greatest need. This was a proper decision. The service development fund can be applied outside these areas to some extent but there will be considerable demand to target resources into the areas identified by the task force. However, there are other facilities within the Department, particularly in the areas of youth and sport, which will be conscious of recreation and leisure facilities as an aid in the fight against drug misuse in an area.

There was a recommendation that the proceeds of the Criminal Assets Bureau be utilised in the fight against drugs. I understand nothing has changed in this regard except that there may be a legal complication regarding the direct use of funds for this purpose. However, it may be possible to overcome this difficulty by using an equivalent amount, and this is what we expect to happen.

The proposal to establish a youth services development fund is excellent and we will shortly be making an announcement about it. It also aims at targeting the corporate sector which is increasingly indicating its wish to become involved in funding this area in particular, and we have put in place a mechanism whereby corporate funding which appears to be available could be tapped into. This is in line with a recommendation of the task force.

Mr. Allen

What money was spent by the State on infrastructure in relation to car ferries in the context of the report on the development plan for sustainable tourism in the period 1994-9, and where was it spent?

Dr. McDaid

I cannot give a statistical answer, but I will get back to the Deputy on the matter.

Mr. Allen

According to my reading of the plan, £65 million of Structural Funds were spent on a high speed service from Dún Laoghaire to Holyhead. Is that correct?

Dr. McDaid

If the Deputy wishes to put down a question I will try and supply that information.

Mr. Allen

Earlier the Minister said he had little input into the closure of the Irish Ferries service from Roscoff to Cork as it was provided by a private company. However, huge investment is being made in the Dún Laoghaire to Holyhead route and I am trying to find out the amount of EU funding which that route has received.

Dr. McDaid

I think the report has yet to be published by the Department of the Environment and Local Government. I will try to answer the Deputy if he tables a question.

Mr. Allen

It would be helpful if in future officials were introduced to the committee.