Dáil Éireann Debate, Tuesday - 21 January 2014
129. Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív asked the Minister for Education and Skills when he expects to publish the value for money report on small schools; the reason for the delay in publication; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2275/14]
View answer143. Deputy Denis Naughten asked the Minister for Education and Skills the progress to date in addressing the specific issues of rural schools; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [2279/14]
View answerSmall primary schools are the lifeblood of local rural communities. They have given outstanding outcomes in respect of both the academic achievements of the graduates of those schools and the social coherence they have created. They are under constant attack by people in ivory towers and the Minister appears to be one of the cheerleaders in this campaign. The Minister has had a value for money review carried out on these small schools. Will this review be published before the local elections?
I propose to take Questions Nos. 129 and 143 together.
The current configuration of small primary schools has been examined by my Department in a value for money review, commissioned by my predecessor, former Deputy Mary Coughlan, which I am considering in consultation with my Government colleagues. The Government is mindful of the impact of small schools on dispersed rural communities and will take this into account in considering any planning framework for future provision of schools. My intention is to publish the report of the review on completion of this consideration process. I am not in a position to give a precise publication date at this time.
The Minister tells me he is unable to give a precise date. I would be more than willing to accept an imprecise date today. Does the Minister envisage that the report will be published within one, two or three months? I would be more than happy were the Minister to give me the date within a month. That would be a fair and happy compromise, because I can understand that things get delayed for a day or two.
My second question to the Minister pertains to a request for a meeting with him made by the chairman of the education committee in Northern Ireland to discuss the vulnerability of small Protestant schools in County Donegal in particular under the rules for small schools introduced by the Minister regarding pupil-teacher ratio.
He refused to meet that significant and senior politician in this country. Why was the Minister unwilling to meet Mr. Mervyn Storey, MLA, to discuss the plight of small schools in County Donegal?
I am not immediately aware of such a request, but I will make inquiries. I have no difficulty in meeting anybody in that regard, particularly in the area about which Mr. Storey has expressed concern because I have met others regarding it. I do not doubt the request was made to the Department, but as a former Cabinet Minister, the Deputy will realise a Minister does not see every request.
I did, every one of them.
Did you?
Yes, always. If somebody, particularly a politician, wanted to meet me, I certainly would have made sure that I saw it.
The Deputy was a very fortunate man to have had so much time to do that.
I just made the time.
I am sure the Deputy did.
Hard work. I had to travel a lot more than the Minister.
I admire the Deputy's tenacity. I will revert to him when I am in a position to tell him when the report will be published so as not to mislead him.
I presume the Minister will accept that Ireland is predominantly a rural country and that in the past decade and a half we have seen the complete decimation of rural communities. Shops, businesses, pubs and communities have been decimated. The only remaining focal point is the small rural school. The report commenced three years ago and has been with the Department for approximately 12 months. Does the Minister not think the communities involved deserve to know what is in that report and that it should be made available for discussion to let it feed into any discussion rather than the other way around?
Ireland was very much or predominantly a rural country, but that started to turn around in 1961 and it is now predominantly an urban country in many respects. That is having an impact in many ways. Changes in retail policy, transport and other areas are having a major impact not just on Irish society but also in countries such as France, Italy, Spain and many others. We are no different; we are affected by the same factors. I recognise the central importance of a school in any community but particularly in isolated rural communities such as those on the islands that could not function without a school. I do everything to ensure island communities have access to a school and there is no question of their not having access to a school. One could ask why one island has two schools less than one mile from each other but that is another matter. I want to have the report published as soon as possible. I want to ensure it is available in order that people can see what it states. Perhaps we should have a debate and a discussion about what the implications are. I would like that to happen.
The Minister has said the request for a meeting was not brought to his attention. The meeting was requested on 13 September. I telephoned the Minister's diary secretary and asked that the importance of offering this meeting be stressed. I was in continuous contact with the Minister's office. When I received a letter refusing a meeting, I wrote to the Taoiseach and telephoned his secretary a number of times to explain the importance of this issue. I mentioned the request for a meeting on the floor of the House on the Order of Business with the Taoiseach. The Minister is telling me that after all of that, nobody at any stage told him a senior politician, the chairperson of the education committee in Northern Ireland, was seeking a meeting with him. He needs to put a better system in place in his office. Can he tell me what he will do to ensure the next time an elected politician in Northern Ireland requests a meeting with him his staff inform him? I do not blame the staff because they obviously act on the Minister's instructions.
As a lot of Members are offering, I will take Deputy Denis Naughten's question now.
In fairness, I am entitled to the same response and the Minister should not amalgamate the two answers. I would like to let him respond on the issue.
Okay, but I cannot let the Deputies in. It is as simple as that.
I intended no disrespect to Deputy Ó Cuív in regard to the efforts he made to contact the Department or to emulate Mr. Storey. I simply said that I do not recall such a request being brought to my attention, but I could be wrong on that. I do not blame anybody else, but I do not recall such a request. I get many requests, as no doubt the Deputy did also as a Minister. I will make inquiries and will be more than happy to meet the person. I have no difficulty with that.
Would the Minister accept that if there is large-scale closure of rural schools, children as young as four will have to be bussed over long distances on poor roads, and will he agree that this is not an acceptable situation? Will the Minister consider clustering schools together so that they can share resources and boards of management? This would be of assistance and allow real efficiencies for schools. Can the Minister assure us that the value for money report will be published in advance of any Cabinet decision? It is pointless to publish such reports after the Cabinet has made its decisions. At that stage there is no point in having a discussion or debate, because the Minister's hands and Cabinet's hands are tied. Will the Minister give us this assurance?
It is certainly my desire that the report be published as soon as possible and that it be considered by the wider community before any policy decision is made.
