Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 2 July 2015
17. Deputy Mary Lou McDonald asked the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform if he will provide, in tabular form, the expenses incurred by him between 2011 and to date in 2015, to include the date, expense type, description and amount; if each expense was vouched; his plans to introduce changes to the expenses system to ensure all expenses are fully vouched for; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [26123/15]
View answerAs láthair, ach tá mise anseo. It is due to the late sitting.
Anseo.
My question refers to the thorny issue of ministerial expenses. When I drafted the question, it was to refer to each Minister, but it appears that it is now focused entirely on the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform.
I thank the Deputy.
That was not my intention, but, nonetheless, that is how the question is phrased. It asks the Minister if he will provide, in tabular form, the expenses incurred by him between 2011 and to date in 2015. It is not directed at him personally or in particular. I raise it because there has been for the umpteenth time public unease and concern about ministerial expenses. I, therefore, thought it worthy of airing it today.
The data are contained in the following table.
Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform: Expenses 2011 - 1 July 2015
|
2011 |
Location |
Purpose of Visit |
Flights |
Hotel Accommodation |
Transport Costs |
Other Expenses* |
|
15 - 16 Dec |
Brussels |
Formal meeting for Ministers responsible for Cohesion Policy |
€295.17 |
€0.00 |
€430.00 |
€136.13 |
|
2012 |
Location |
Purpose of Visit |
Flights |
Hotel Accommodation |
Transport Costs |
Other Expenses* |
|
9 Feb - 10 Feb |
Belgium: Brussels |
Meeting with Director of Economic and Financial affairs at the European Commission, Istvan Szekely |
€509.30 |
€0.00 |
|
|
|
15 Mar - 22 Mar |
Singapore |
St Patrick's Day Promote Ireland abroad |
€2,345.05 |
€0.00 |
|
|
|
14 May - 16 May |
Belgium: Brussels |
Preparation for Irish EU Presidency |
€246.98 |
€310.00 |
€701.50 |
|
|
4 Jun - 7 Jun |
Turkey: Istanbul |
World Economic Forum |
€339.26 |
€993.04 |
€642.07 |
|
|
03 Oct |
Belgium: Brussels |
EU Commission/Visit by Cabinet |
€0.00 |
€0.00 |
€108.00 |
|
|
18 Oct - 19 Oct |
United Kingdom: London |
Trade Mission |
€467.98 |
€0.00 |
|
|
|
5 Nov - 7 Nov |
Cyprus: Nicosia |
World Economic Forum |
€0.00 |
€0.00 |
|
|
|
13 Dec - 14 Dec |
The Netherlands: Amsterdam |
Meeting with AWEPA - The Association of European Parliamentarians with Africa on Aid Effectiveness |
€407.21 |
€0.00 |
|
€0.00 |
|
2013 |
Location |
Purpose of Visit |
Flights |
Hotel Accommodation |
Transport Costs |
Other Expenses* |
|
22 Jan - 24 Jan |
Belgium: Brussels |
EU Committee of the Regions |
€315.66 |
€468.00 |
€138.00 |
€409.36 |
|
30 Jan - 31 Jan |
Belgium: Brussels |
Meeting with Commissioner Hahn |
€0.00 |
€168.00 |
|
€72.33 |
|
12 Mar - 22 Mar |
Indonesia/Singapore/Philippines |
St Patrick's Day Promote Ireland abroad |
€3,116.51 |
€378.15 |
€1,523.47 |
€1,825.53 |
|
12 May - 13 May |
Belgium: Brussels |
EU Committee of the Regions |
€0.00 |
€127.20 |
€72.33 |
|
|
8 Jul - 9 Jul |
Belgium: Brussels |
High Level Seminar on Public Service Innovation |
€247.32 |
€202.15 |
€322.00 |
€72.33 |
|
7 Sep - 15 Sept |
China: Dalian/Beijing |
World Economic Forum |
€2,771.62 |
€1,344.99 |
|
€1,238.39 |
|
30 Oct - 2 Nov |
United Kingdom: London |
Open Government Partnership |
€272.51 |
€831.40 |
|
€514.91 |
|
25 Nov - 27 Nov |
Lithuania: Vilnius |
Meeting of EU Ministers responsible for Cohesion |
€0.00 |
€369.52 |
|
€134.96 |
|
2014 |
Location |
Purpose of Visit |
Flights |
Hotel Accommodation |
Transport Costs |
Other Expenses* |
|
12 Feb |
Northern Ireland: Belfast |
British Irish Chamber of Commerce Event |
|
€108.04 |
|
|
|
10 Mar - 20 Mar |
China: Shanghai/Hong Kong/Beijing |
St Patrick's Day Promote Ireland abroad |
€4,441.78 |
€1,381.53 |
€2,181.91 |
€2,962.42 |
|
10 Apr - 11 Apr |
Wales: Cardiff |
Meeting in relation to the INTERREG Programme Ireland/Wales |
€261.97 |
€179.83 |
|
€233.94 |
|
23 Apr - 24 Apr |
France: Paris |
Conference on Open Data to Open Government |
€0.00 |
€220.00 |
|
€457.56 |
|
24 Apr - 25 Apr |
Greece: Athens |
Informal Ministerial meeting on Cohesion Policy |
€0.00 |
€0.00 |
|
€207.49 |
|
20 Jun - 29 Jun |
Korea: Seoul |
Attendance at 2014 United Nations Public Service Forum |
€2,774.28 |
€783.81 |
€312.16 |
€2,032.21 |
|
11 Sept - 12 Sept |
France: Paris |
Meeting with the OECD on Public Service Reform |
€593.15 |
€225.00 |
€606.00 |
€291.99 |
|
31 Oct - 3 Nov |
Jordan: Amman |
Government Leaders Forum |
€0.00 |
€0.00 |
|
€1,150.21 |
|
2 - 4 Dec |
Italy: Rome |
EUPAN - the European Public Administration Network |
€203.69 |
€0.00 |
|
€314.66 |
|
2015 |
Location |
Purpose of Visit |
Flights |
Hotel Accommodation |
Transport Costs |
Other Expenses* |
|
23 - 24 Feb |
Belgium: Brussels |
Ireland's 2014 - 2020 ERDF Operation Programmes |
€331.98 |
€149.28 |
|
€151.80 |
|
10 - 22 Mar |
Japan: Osaka/Tokyo South Korea:Seoul |
St Patrick's Day Promote Ireland Abroad |
€2,222.07 |
€1,985.57 |
€2,257.53 |
€2,097.04 |
|
26 Mar |
Wales: Swansea |
Keynote address at Ireland Wales Co op programme |
€108.98 |
€0.00 |
|
€77.76 |
|
8 - 9 Jun |
Riga: Latvia |
Informal Meeting of EU Cohesion Ministers under the Latvian Presidency |
€172.92 |
€0.00 |
|
€89.25 |
*Please note other expenses include: Briefings/Interpreters/Meetings/Travel & Subsistence & Gifts
I should be relieved that the question was not focused entirely on me. If the Deputy did couch it in such a way that it referred to each line Minister, she would have had to table a question to each of them.
Perhaps that is what happened.
That is what happened; it was sent to every Minister, as I would not have access to data for expenses. I have set out data for every cent I have spent and claimed since I entered office in March 2011. The Deputy has referred to there being unease and disquiet, but there is nothing in the tabular statement that has not been aggregated, published and republished a multiplicity of times under freedom of information legislation. No doubt, I will read them again in a reaggregated and republished form, no doubt multiplied by ten, to show what they would look like if I were to be in office for ten years.
Will people have to suffer that long - ten years?
My goodness, I thought the Deputy would welcome such things. Short of reading the long list of every European Council meeting I have attended and trade mission I have been on, I will give all of the information to the Deputy and hope it will satisfy her. She will also have everybody else's data to compare and contrast. We will then see the modest expenses that have accrued to the Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform.
I am sure we will all agree that the Minister is nothing if not modest.
No more than the Deputy.
I thank the Minister. This is turning out to be a positive day, but we will see how long that lasts.
Why does the Minister not have access to, or sight of, the expenses of other Ministers? This has happened in other contexts where the Minister's Department has an overarching umbrella, yet when questions are asked - this being a particular instance - the Minister says it is a matter for the line Minister or Department. I would have thought that his departmental officials would have their beady eye across the board. He should be able to provide me with the information on each and every Minister. He might give the aggregate figure for his own personal expenses in the period outlined. As he is aware, this is a vexed issue owing to the hardship faced by many families outside the Chamber. In addition, it is the vouched and unvouched nature of some expenses which needs to be ironed out.
The Deputy describes the listed expenses as "personal", but they are not personal to me. Many of them relate to hosting meetings or lunches when EU ministerial colleagues visit me. In the normal course, they also involve hiring transport to bring officials to meetings that I am attending. In that regard, they are not personal to me.
The Minister knows what the figures are.
The notion that, as Minister for Public Expenditure and Reform, I determine each line Minister's expenses, or that he or she should have to run them past me before booking a flight to Brussels to attend a European Council meeting would not amount to an efficient way to operate.
It is not a question of the Minister sanctioning them but of having information on them.
All data are readily available in every Department and published. Most of us receive FOI requests on every cent incurred in expenses every month. Most of us now put everything online to obviate the need to do so. If there is one area that is rigorously exposed to public scrutiny, more than any other I can think of, it is the expenses paid to politicians.
What is the aggregate figure?
I actually do not have the aggregate figure, but the Deputy can do her own tot.
