Peadar Tóibín
Question:10. Deputy Peadar Tóibín asked the Taoiseach if he will detail the salaries of the top ten highest paid civil servants in his Department. [32079/23]
View answerTuesday, 11 July 2023
Questions (10, 11, 12, 13)
Paul Murphy
Question:11. Deputy Paul Murphy asked the Taoiseach if he will list the salaries of the top ten highest paid civil servants. [32553/23]
View answer
Mick Barry
Question:12. Deputy Mick Barry asked the Taoiseach if he will list the salaries of each of the top ten highest paid civil servants in his Department. [32646/23]
View answer
Richard Boyd Barrett
Question:13. Deputy Richard Boyd Barrett asked the Taoiseach if he will detail the salaries of the top ten highest paid civil servants in his Department. [34007/23]
View answerOral answers (10 contributions)
I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 to 13, inclusive, together.
The role of the Department is to assist me as Taoiseach and the Government to ensure a sustainable economy and a successful society, to pursue Ireland's interests abroad, to implement the Government's programme and to build a better future for Ireland and all its citizens.
Staff employed in the Department of the Taoiseach are aligned to existing Civil Service grades and paid on the appropriate pay scales, which are published on gov.ie.
The following table provides the salaries of the top ten highest paid civil servants in the Department of the Taoiseach.
|
Grade: |
Gross Annual Salary: |
|
Secretary General |
€242,250 |
|
Assistant Secretary General |
€167,534 |
|
Assistant Secretary General |
€167,534 |
|
Assistant Secretary General |
€167,534 |
|
Assistant Secretary General |
€167,534 |
|
Assistant Secretary General |
€146,454 |
|
Principal Officer |
€125,135 |
|
Principal Officer |
€125,135 |
|
Principal Officer |
€122,568 |
|
Principal Officer |
€122,568 |
The applications of pay adjustments for staff in the Department is in accordance with the public service agreement, Building Momentum: A New Public Service Agreement, 2021-2023.
The reason so many people are angry over the RTÉ scandal, for example, and about the pay rates in certain Government Departments is that those pay scales are eye-watering in comparison with the incomes many families are receiving. There is no doubt that we want to ensure that there is a spark in the economy and that people are paid to a certain level to incentivise hard work, education and ambition, but some of the pay scales we have seen are so out of sync with the experience of people that it is hurting them quite a bit. We live in a two-tier society. Many public servants are making eye-watering salaries and, in real terms, that is having an effect on people across the country. One of the issues I want to raise is that people are struggling with a cost-of-living crisis. Electricity prices here are twice the European average per unit. We are the country with the second highest electricity prices. We were told last year that one of the reasons for that is that the price of electricity in Ireland is coupled with the price of gas. Other European countries such as Spain and Portugal decoupled those prices well over six months ago and, as a result, are enjoying far lower prices. The Government has said it will wait until the European Union decouples those prices. When will the European Union decouple those prices or can the Government not do it? We need to make sure that the incomes of normal Irish citizens are not pushed back further towards poverty at a time when so many big names in RTÉ and here in the public service at the upper echelons are receiving incomes which can only be described as largesse.
The independent review panel on senior public service recruitment and pay processes recently delivered its final report to the Minister for Public Expenditure, National Development Plan Delivery and Reform. That fundamentally puts the ball in the court of the Government in terms of deciding whether top civil servants - Mr. Watt is on close to €300,000, others are on €200,000 and some are in between - will get big pay increases of 10% to 15%. Has the Government discussed the outcome of that? Has the Government discussed the idea of these very significant pay increases which are being spoken about? Would the Taoiseach not agree that at a time of the cost-of-living crisis we should be imposing pay caps across the public sector? There is no need for anyone to be paid more than €100,000.
One particular issue I want to raise is that there has been an ongoing dispute, as I understand, in the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage regarding the pay of its Secretary General. He claims that on moving from his position as Secretary General of the Department of Transport to the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, he was promised he would be bumped up a grade from Secretary General grade II to Secretary General grade I, which comes with a substantial pay increase from around €235,000 a year to €250,000 a year.
It is being disputed by others as to whether such an agreement was in place. In the press statement that the Department put out, the Minister, Deputy Donohoe, is quoted as saying: "I have requested the Independent Review Panel to remain in place for the coming weeks to undertake a review of the grading of the Secretary General posts in the Departments of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth; and Housing, Local Government & Heritage within the existing structure." My reading of this is that it is paving the way to agree to a pay increase in grading. Is that the case and, if so, how can it be justified?
I thank the Deputies again for their questions. If they look at pay for public servants in Ireland, whether it is in the Civil Service or the wider public service, it does compare favourably with other European countries. Of course, you have to adjust it for tax and the cost of living, but even so, public servants in Ireland are relatively well paid compared with Northern Ireland, Britain, France, Denmark or Italy. It is important that we recognise this. It is only possible because of the economic policies that have been pursued over the past decades. We would not be able to pay our public servants the way we do now if we had pursued different policies in the past ten or 20 years. They would be paid much less. They would probably be paid what public servants are paid now in Britain, Italy or other European countries.
Regarding RTÉ "talent" or stars, they are not public servants, by and large. They are self-employed and they charge fees, so they do not have the benefit of the protections of public service employees and they do not receive pensions from the State, but they do have a very tax efficient way of being remunerated, to put it that way.
On electricity prices, we do expect them to come down. We are seeing business rates coming down already and we expect to see residential rates coming down in the next few months. I am familiar with what they have done in Spain and Portugal, but I am not sure that is the right way to go. They have seen a huge increase in the use of gas in Spain and Portugal, and that has come at a cost to the governments and the taxpayers. While the electricity bill someone gets is lower, the fact that the government has to pay for so much gas has put the bill on the taxpayer in a different way. I am not sure if that is the right route.
When is the EU reform coming in?
There are several EU reforms. I am not sure which one the Deputy means.
The one on decoupling.
I do not know if that is going to happen at all. I will have to revert to the Deputy.
Okay.
There are a few different reforms being proposed.
The Secretaries General of Departments are paid at three levels. That is something I did not know about until recent months. I am glad to say that, even though I have served in government for quite some time, I have managed not to take an interest, or get too involved, in how much individuals are paid in Departments. I do not think that is a role for politicians. They are graded at three different levels. That is now being reviewed, particularly given that the spec of the job and the size of certain Departments have changed pretty fundamentally. Everyone will know that the Department of Children and Youth Affairs was a relatively small Department under its former Ministers, Ms Katherine Zappone, Deputy Flanagan and Ms Frances Fitzgerald. It is now a huge Department that is also responsible for disability, international protection and our response to the crisis in refugees coming from Ukraine. It is a different Department. Similarly, the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage has a budget that has ballooned in recent years. It has a nearly €5 billion budget now whereas it used to be a relatively small Department in the past. There will be an independent assessment as to whether those positions should be regraded or not. I am sure the Government will accept the outcome of that process.