Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 14 December 2023
75. Deputy Kathleen Funchion asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth to provide an update on improving the chart of accounts mandatory for those services signed up to core funding; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [54563/23]
View answerThis question relates to the mandatory chart of accounts for those services signed up to core funding. Some people refer to it as double accounting. I am interested in hearing if we can get some more information in regard to that and then I will expand further on it in my remaining time.
Providers that had an active core funding contract during the 2022-23 programme year must provide validated financial returns as per their core funding partner service funding agreement. Having heard the concerns Deputy Funchion spoke to there, officials in my Department have, in recent weeks, engaged constructively with key stakeholders on this requirement.
Four meetings have taken place involving members and nominees from Childhood Services Ireland, Childminding Ireland, Early Childhood Ireland, the Association of Childhood Professionals Ireland, the Federation of Early Childhood Providers, the National Childhood Network, the National Community Childcare Forum and Seas Suas as well as representatives from city and county childcare committees, Ernst & Young, and Pobal.
Arising from this engagement, my officials have developed proposals to significantly simplify and streamline the reporting requirements under core funding. Updated financial reporting requirements were shared with providers yesterday, and include five key initiatives aimed at streamlining and simplifying the process for providers. There will be a transition phase for years 1 and 2 of core funding, during which the reporting requirements will be significantly reduced. There will be a significant reduction in the number of items against which services will have to report expenditure. In addition, a detailed breakdown of staff expenditure across qualification level will be no longer required. There will be a similar reduction in the number of income reporting requirements. There also will be a reduction in the administrative complexity of reporting for multisite organisations. My Department is exploring additional supports, including targeted financial supports, for partner services that may need it.
These changes were communicated to providers yesterday. I am sure the providers and their representative bodies are examining them now. Following that engagement, I hope they will meet a significant number of the issues that providers raised. My officials are now working to support providers in preparing to submit these returns, through the delivery of training and the design of targeted financial supports for those who need them. Importantly, the date for submitting financial returns has been extended to 22 March 2024.
I thank the Minister. I had all my points ready on the stuff I was going to give out about, but I do not have to say them now. It is great to come in and hear about progress on an issue. That is really welcome. Issues were raised in offices and elsewhere but they were also raised at the committee, as the Minister is aware. The Association of Childhood Professionals and the Federation of Early Childhood Providers brought it up. It is good to see the right thing was done, people sat around the table and came up with solutions.
From what the Minister says, it does seem there was broad agreement at the meetings which were attended by a number of representative groups. That is very welcome. The Minister himself acknowledged that it was not that anyone was doubting the need for oversight and accountability it was just the fact that, as we often raise in here, it involved more of a burden in terms of paperwork and administrative work for the early years sector. It is great that there is an extension of the timeframe and some agreement on how it will work. If it is okay, I might raise the pay talks in my next contribution.
We heard the issues that have been raised by Deputies and following the committee hearings that were held. I heard them myself in my constituency and around the country when meeting childcare providers. We have moved significantly. I am not going to say the agreement from groups was 100%, but we have moved significantly to address many of the key concerns that were raised. It is important to remember that the reason we are seeking these financial returns is to get the best information possible about income and expenditure for services so we can better direct core funding.
As the Deputy knows, I secured an extra €45 million for core funding in year 3. Some of that is allocated, but around €20 million is not allocated. We want to understand what services need the most supports. That is why we asked for this detailed information. However, we also wanted to work with providers and we have been able to tone down significantly what we are asking for this year.
I thank the Minister. The following is not really related to the question so he might have to come back with this information, but we have the opportunity. In regard to the pay talks, and it came up at the recent Estimates as well, there have been savings, and when we questioned those, it was that the money for the pay talks had to be returned to the Department of Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform. Unfortunate does not even describe it when money that is secured has to be handed back. Will that delay the process? Is there any update on the pay talks? Some of the issues the Big Start campaign at SIPTU has raised is that there had been agreement on the graduate pay level. Where it was required to have three years' service, as part of the pay talks the deal was that, once graduates had their qualifications, they were eligible for the higher rate. Everything rests in relation to the pay talks. Can the Minister give any updates either now or in a written response?
I welcome the changes the Minister is making in the burden being placed on childcare providers. However, it would be remiss not to express the deep frustration many of them feel. I take the point that the Minister must have accountability and transparency for money spent. However, an obligation of this nature to ascertain how he might better spend the money looks to me like taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut. There are many other ways to find out the make-up of the cost structure of childcare providers in trying to see how to direct future funding. Many providers feel the money is tight as it is and this was an extraordinary request. I have the documentation here and you would want an accountant to do this. Many of these are not providers on that sort of scale so there needs to be an understanding of the small nature of these businesses and the administrative burden the hive is already creating for them.
I will take Deputy Bruton's points first. Having listened to the sector, we have made significant changes to the document he showed there. He is right. Remember the sector is very wide and the nature of providers is very different. We cannot have a one-size-fits-all approach but that is how we need to understand what is the cost base of that small service down the road operated out of someone's house versus a 100-child large service. We have to get into that detail and we cannot get a one-size-fits-all information. That is why the detailed information has to be obtained from individual services. However, we have listened on that point and a wider review of the administrative burden is taking place at the moment outside of these financial reports. I very much heard the concerns about administrative burden and we are taking actions to reduce it.
In regard to the pay talks, they are still ongoing. I am frustrated. I really thought the new agreement would be in. Because it has not come in, some of the money we dedicated towards removing the three-year rule has to be given back to the Department of Public Expenditure, NDP Delivery and Reform - from my cold dead hand but that is the way it goes. I urge both sides to get that agreement so that we can have the money that is available, flowing to services so that they can increase pay for staff who richly deserve that increase.
