Dáil Éireann Debate, Thursday - 15 February 2024
1. Deputy Imelda Munster asked the Minister for Tourism, Culture, Arts, Gaeltacht, Sport and Media her views on the two reports recently commissioned and published at RTÉ on Toy Show The Musical and the voluntary exit programme; and if she will make a statement on the matter. [7245/24]
View answerI ask the Minister for her views on the two reports recently commissioned and published by RTÉ on Toy Show The Musical and the voluntary exit programme and if she will make a statement.
The report into Toy Show The Musical highlights serious failings in governance oversight, financial management and appropriate control procedures with regard to the project. The facts the report sets out are clearly very disappointing and confirm what was already known, which is that there were failings of proper oversight and an absence of interrogation of the project by the board.
This speaks again to the culture within RTÉ at that time and the dysfunction that existed between the board and senior management. Since then, the chair, Ms Siún Ní Raghallaigh, and the director general, Mr. Kevin Bakhurst, have taken steps to ensure such dysfunction does not happen again.
The report, while bringing some clarity to the events surrounding the musical, did not name the individuals who engaged with Grant Thornton. I raised this issue with the chair of RTÉ when she briefed me on that report. This was also raised by the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport and Media. Further transparency has since been afforded by the revised version of the report, which was published this week. This does include the names of the majority of individuals involved who engaged with Grant Thornton. RTÉ staff members below the executive level are not named.
With regard to the McCann Fitzgerald report commissioned by RTÉ into the 2017 and 2021 voluntary exit programmes, I said that this showed an appalling disregard for the principles of equity, fairness and transparency in the treatment of staff, which prevailed at the time. I met the director general, Mr. Bakhurst, on the day of publication and he assured me that the control and oversight reforms introduced over the past number of months will ensure that this will not happen again.
As I previously stated, we need to uncover the detail of what has happened in the past to ensure it will not recur. Our imperative now must be to look to the future. Key to this will be the recommendations of the two independent expert advisory committees, which were commissioned by the Government to carry out reviews of governance, culture and HR matters at RTÉ. I arranged for copies of the Grant Thornton 3 and McCann FitzGerald reports to be forwarded to the expert advisory committees and they will help inform their work, which is nearing conclusion.
Finally, I have said all along that we need not only transparency but also accountability and only yesterday, representatives of RTÉ appeared before the Joint Committee on Tourism, Culture, Arts, Sport and Media, on which the Deputy sits, to account for their actions with regard to the reports.
First, I have to say that again I submitted a question to the Minister around bogus self-employment at RTÉ and once again, it was rejected. I am running out of ways to word the question in the hope that the Minister will actually answer it. I see that she met Mr. Bakhurst in the last couple of weeks and she also met the unions, which would suggest that it is something that comes under her remit and for which she is responsible, yet it is impossible to get her to address it in the Chamber, where she is accountable. She has the oversight role as Minister but there is a gap in that oversight role if she is not even going to give her opinion or the Government position or if questions keep being blocked. I had to put that on the record.
The substitute question relates to the two reports, to which the Minister has responded. She may have followed the proceedings yesterday where she would have seen that many of those who were responsible for carrying out procedures, without having proper oversight or showing due diligence and who were doing something they knew at the time was wrong, are still in situ. Has the Minister revised her opinion on that matter with regard to those people in positions on the executive board?
To address the Deputy's first issue, the Department of Social Protection is continuing a scope investigation into the classification and potential reclassification of a group of contractors at RTÉ and, as with other HR matters at RTÉ, neither I nor my Department have any involvement in that process. It is a historic review examining status and, consequently, PRSI classification of different groups of workers over a long period of time looking at approximately 700 people. In many cases, those involved will no longer be engaged by RTÉ. They may now be employees or they may have been properly classified as self-employed. As I said, however, as with other HR matters, neither I nor my Department have any involvement in the process. There is a process in place with the Department of Social Protection, however.
With regard to the voluntary exit scheme report, it does show that proper approval procedures were agreed and were applied in most cases. There was one exception to this, however. That exception was the agreement that was reached with the former chief financial officer, CFO. This severance package was not approved by the former executive board as was required. There are other highlight cases. I can come back to the Deputy. I just wanted to address the Deputy's first issue, but I can come back to her.
Yesterday, the director of HR who was responsible for putting through that exit package, which came in at a cost of just under €500,000 to the taxpayers, appeared at the committee. The director of HR put through the procedure with that exit package, knowing that it did not meet the criteria and knowing full well it broke the rules and was not compliant with the scheme. That person processed that package and signed a letter saying it was approved by the board, knowing full well it was never approved, and that executive director of HR is still in situ.
When it comes to trust and accountability, but also with regard to the whopper €450,000 package that did not comply with any scheme and that Revenue is now chasing for tax, does the Minister think the former CFO should pay that package back?
Both the McCann Fitzgerald report and yesterday's committee hearing have brought more clarity to the questions of the approval of the exit package for Ms O'Keeffe. As I said, the report does show that proper approval procedures were agreed and were applied in most cases but there was one exception to this. It is important that yesterday the head of HR did appear before the committee for accountability. The other key players really need to come forward to the committees, and whether it is the case that they are unavailable or that it happens when they are in a better state of health, accountability from those people is needed. However, appointment of staff to the leadership team in RTÉ is a matter for the director general. I am not going to second-guess his judgment on this matter. What I will say with regard to the exit package that was revealed yesterday is that while there may not be a legal obligation on the former CFO, I concur that there is a moral obligation.
