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Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 18 Jun 1926

Vol. 16 No. 13

IN COMMITTEE ON FINANCE. - VOTE 52—SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATE.

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim breise ná raghaidh thar £21,315 chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1927, chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí na Roinne Talmhaíochta agus seirbhís£ áirithe atá fé riara na Roinne sin, maraon le hIdeontaisi-i-gCabhar.

That a supplementary sum, not exceeding £21,315 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1927, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Department of Agriculture and of certain services administered by that Department, including sundry Grants-in-Aid.

I think the Minister for Agriculture already explained the exceptional circumstances which led to the introduction of this Estimate. Certain proposals were not prepared in time to be fully examined in the Department of Finance when the original estimates were being made ready for the printers, and they had to be struck out. I think that the actual matters covered by this Supplementary Estimate have been dealt with by the Minister for Agriculture when the main Vote was under discussion.

Deputies will remember that on the discussion of the estimates for the Department of Agriculture I indicated the supplementary estimates which it was proposed to move afterwards. I gave all the items set out in the paper now being circulated, except sub-head O (2), Dairy Produce Act, £1,750. That is a rather important supplementary estimate. It is to provide for what we call one-man auxiliaries. In some districts, such as Clare, and areas in the Midlands, there is an insufficiency of cows to support a central creamery economically. The only way of introducing dairying to those districts would be to have one. central creamery and a number of auxiliaries. An auxiliary costs from £1,200 to £1,500, and the capital expenses are too high for the very small milk supply you are likely to have in places like Clare, where the number of cows in a given area is much more, say, than in a place like Galway, but much less than in a county such as Limerick. If we could arrange an auxiliary, which would come within the terms of the Dairy Produce Act, and have all the plant and equipment required in accordance with that Act, but which would be run by one man, and cost, say, £600, that would be economic. Deputies will see the enormous possibilities in that, if it could be done. It would mean that instead of home-butter-making in Clare and other districts, where the people lose because they must sell at low prices, we could introduce creameries into these districts, which at present go in for home butter-making to a greater extent than for the raising of young stock. It is not meant to introduce creameries into places in the West, like Mayo, Galway, and so-forth, but into places such as Cavan, Leitrim, and portions of Kerry, where there is a large amount of home buttermaking, and where butter is more important than store stock. This vote is to provide a subsidy to one, two, or three experimental one-man creameries.

We could not ask anybody to set up an auxiliary creamery and take all the risks of making an entirely new experiment without guaranteeing him in some way. Moreover, if we do arrange, either with a society or an individual, to build an auxiliary creamery, according to their own or our specification— in any event, it will have to be approved by us—we must ask them afterwards to keep accounts, and to let us have the costings of every single item in connection with the running of that institution. Under these circumstances we will probably have to supply the equipment for two or three of these institutions. If the experiment succeeds, we can always sell the equipment to the society or individual who makes the experiment for us. One of these institutions has practically been arranged.

Mr. HOGAN

In Tipperary. From the accounts I have seen, I believe it will prove a success—a success in the sense that it will prove that you can establish an auxiliary for something like £700, run it efficiently with one man, and have all the equipment and all the plant and all the precautions taken that are required under the Dairy Produce Act. That is the only item that was not discussed fully already in connection with the estimate of our Department.

How far must this auxiliary be from the central creamery or is it to be a complete unit in itself?

Mr. HOGAN

How would an auxiliary be a complete unit?

How would you establish it in a place like Wicklow, where there is no creamery within 100 miles?

Mr. HOGAN

You could not.

That was the point I wished to get cleared up.

Mr. HOGAN

Take a district of X square miles. It can afford one central creamery. That central creamery would be ten miles from the farthest cow. Hence you would want five or six creameries to tap the district. You could not afford to put up five or six auxiliaries at a cost of £1,200 each, but if you can afford to put up five or six, at a cost of £700 each, and to run them afterwards with one man, you will be in a totally different position.

On this sub-head, I want to commend the action of the Department in taking a very unusual step and a step which I hope will be productive of good results. If the experiment, as the Minister suggests, promises success, he will have done a great work for districts where dairying is, under the present law, becoming an economic proposition, and where the conditions of the farmers prevent them erecting a creamery at the present cost. The cost of erecting a creamery would be about £1,500. In a very poor part of the county from which I come— that part which adjoins Co. Leitrim— the farmers made a very valiant effort to erect a creamery, which they need very badly. They would be able to secure about £400 or £500 in capital, but the yield of milk per cow would be small and it is doubtful if they would be justified in expending the necessary sum. If it can be proved by this experiment that an auxiliary of this type can be economically run, it will mean very swift development of the dairying industry.

I desire to refer to sub-head I, which deals with special agricultural schemes in congested districts. I think it is regrettable that the decision to make these funds available was not taken earlier by the Department. The administration of the schemes has been made more difficult, because the county committees were not aware that these additional grants would be forthcoming. The fact that there was delay in making that decision will mean that they will not be as great a success as they would be if the decision had been taken earlier and made known. Even as it is, I think these schemes should be very helpful to the districts concerned.

I want to make the plea—I have already urged it upon the Minister— that my constituency should get consideration under these special schemes which it has not got heretofore. Early in the debate on the first Land Bill, an effort was made by the then Farmers' Party to have Cavan scheduled as a congested area. Why it was not so scheduled when these districts were first mapped out is more than I can understand. The conditions in Cavan are exactly similar to those across the Border in Connacht. These special schemes are running and are giving satisfaction in these places and also in Donegal, but we in Cavan are excluded from the benefits. I pointed out before that in the western end of Cavan the committee of agriculture were experiencing great difficulty in getting the farmers to take up schemes, particularly towards improvement in the breed of cattle by procuring premium bulls. The cost to one small farmer in this congested area of one premium bull would be too great. They could not afford to pay anything between £60 and £90 for an animal and take him down to a holding of ten acres among farmers with holdings of a similar size. The risk of investing this sum is too great for one of those men.

The result is the advantages coming to farmers in the better districts, where the holdings are larger, are denied to the farmers in the poorer districts. In the congested areas the policy of the Minister is such that schemes to enable farmers to get loans on special terms to procure bulls have operated very satisfactorily. I make the plea that Cavan is entitled to consideration under these schemes, but we have not got it up to the present. I am not now indulging in any special pleading; the conditions are there to be seen by anybody. The Minister paid one visit to part of my constituency, and I think he will agree that the conditions he saw there are just as bad as the conditions prevailing in the great part of the Province of Connacht. I urge that the Minister should recognise now, when a special effort is being made to improve the congested areas and to put the farmers there in a position to enable them to get the best out of their holdings, that the same facilities should be extended to farmers in other districts where they have not been able to avail of the ordinary schemes.

Mr. HOGAN

I agree that Cavan is a congested county, and should be treated in the same way as other such districts. I agree with the Deputy that so far as these special schemes are concerned it should receive consideration.

Question put and agreed to.
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