Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 14 May 1930

Vol. 34 No. 15

Adjournment Debate. - Cooley Surplus Potato Crop.

Mr. Aiken

In reply to a question of mine to-day as to whether the Government were going to do anything in the immediate future to relieve the situation in Cooley, the Minister for Agriculture replied that four hundred additional acres of sugar beet were to be grown there, and that the local Farmers' Association had already been informed that their proposal for compensation for unsold potato stocks could not be entertained. The situation, roughly, is that there are at least 10,000 tons of potatoes in Cooley lying at the backs of the ditches unsold, because the farmers cannot even get five shillings per ton for them in Great Britain. They are precluded from sending these potatoes to the other parts of the Saorstát, as the experts say that if the potatoes were allowed out they would spread the black scab disease. This matter affects everybody in the country. The Cooley farmers are not allowed to send their potatoes to the rest of the Saorstát, in order to save the rest of the Saorstát from the black scab disease, and they believe that as the growing of potatoes is their principal livelihood they are entitled to some compensation, particularly in view of the fact that when Wexford farmers suffered loss through the destruction of their cattle as a result of the foot and mouth outbreak these farmers got compensation.

One of the reasons I am interested in this situation is that the people in the Cooley district are the best tillage farmers in the country. In many portions of Cooley you will only see one field out of ten in grass. The farmers there have given more employment per thousand acres than any other district in Ireland, and unless something is done to enable them to continue producing tillage crops the population is bound to go down. Something should be done this year to use the thousands of tons of potatoes which are going to waste. I made some suggestions to the Minister before as to the utilisation of these potatoes, and I hope that something will be done to treat these potatoes in Cooley, whether by drying them as chips or steaming them and sending them out to be used for feeding stock. From the national point of view, the situation is that there is food which can be used for stock going to waste. We are importing large quantities of cattle feeding stuffs each year, and we are allowing at least £15,000 worth of cattle food to go waste in Cooley. From a national point of view it would be a good outlay to spend money in treating these potatoes so that they can be used outside the district as food for stock.

The economic situation of the farmers there of course is desperate. Potatoes are practically their only cash crop. They produce very little stock. Unfortunately, they have not houses in which to feed pigs or capital with which to buy young pigs. The promise of 400 acres of beet was like the promise of a glass of whiskey next year to a man who has a broken leg. Something should be done at once to cure the acute situation which exists there, rather than giving a promise as to something that will be done for them next year. The farmers there I think are entitled to some compensation and I would prefer that the compensation would take such a form as would put them on their feet so that they would not be looking again for compensation. A few years ago I made the suggestion that they should be induced to turn to the growing of soft fruit. We are importing one and a half millions worth of foreign fruit every year and I think if the Cooley farmers were induced to grow fruit it would give plenty of employment and would lead to the cutting down of imports. I hope that the Minister will see his way to do something to utilise the past season's crop of potatoes so that it will not go to waste and that the country as a whole will have the benefit of using its own foodstuffs that are there.

Minister for Agriculture (Mr. Hogan)

I agree that probably the best tillage farmers in Ireland are in that district, but there is no analogy between the case of the Wexford farmers, whose stock contracted foot and mouth disease, and the farmers of Cooley who grow potatoes which are possibly a source of infection for black scab. When an animal which contracts foot and mouth disease is slaughtered the owner loses it. It has to be remembered that in this case the restriction on the Cooley farmer only applies to the Free State. They may sell their potatoes in Great Britain, but they may not sell them in the Free State. Assuming there were no restrictions whatever, the Cooley farmers could sell potatoes anywhere they liked. In a normal year the Irish market would be no good to them; they would sell no potatoes in it. This is possibly the first year for a very long time that it might be said that they would get a somewhat higher price on the Irish market for a quantity of their potatoes than they could on the English market. There is no price at present for potatoes in the British markets. But it has to be remembered that these farmers are depending in the main, and for every normal year depending entirely, on the English market, and if there were no restrictions, taking normal years, one year with another, the home market would be no good to them. In fact, there is no demand in the home market for the class of potatoes that they grow except for feeding stock. They would not contemplate growing potatoes regularly to be sold at the price which they would get for them if used for feeding stock. They grow potatoes for human use, and the only market practically in a normal year that they have is the English market. That would be the case if there were no restrictions. It is a fact, however, that owing to the extraordinary depression on the English market this year they would probably get a somewhat higher price for a proportion of their potatoes on the Irish market if they were allowed to sell them. We cannot allow them to sell them. We cannot take the risk of spreading black scab. It is agreed that the risk is there, and we cannot take the risk of spreading it. Hence we cannot allow potatoes out of the district untreated; we cannot allow them out in a condition which would make them a source of infection. They have to be treated if allowed out at all.

It has to be remembered also that this condition is not peculiar to the Saorstát. The situation is much worse in Northern Ireland where they go in very much more for cash crops, especially potatoes. Therefore, whilst there is probably only one area in the North of Ireland where potatoes are grown as intensively as in Cooley, nevertheless, taking the North of Ireland as a whole, they grow far more potatoes of these varieties for export than we grow here.

They have the same problem in the North where black scab is fairly rife. They have the same problem in England at the moment and they had it to some extent last year. There are potatoes in the pits in the agricultural districts in England that will never be taken out of them, so that this particular state of affairs here is not peculiar to this country. That is no consolation, of course, to the Cooley people. The only reason I make the point is that other Governments are faced with the same problem and none of them has solved it. Deputy Aiken suggested that the potatoes might be either dried or steamed. That, of course, would remove any possibility of infection from black scab. It would kill any infection they may have. We have investigated that and the position is that the-cost of either process would not be more than covered by the price we would obtain for them.

Mr. Aiken

Has the Minister any figures?

Mr. Hogan

We are fairly satisfied about that. Remember the pits are all over Cooley at the present moment. You will have to bring the steaming plant there. The potatoes have to be taken out and put into the steaming plant. They have to be carted away again and put into something like airtight barrels. Then they must be delivered and used after a fairly short period. Once a barrel is opened they must be used practically at once. That means that they would have to be marketed in very small quantities to small farmers in Cavan and all over the country. That would cost an immense amount. We have come to the conclusion, first of all, that we cannot sell all the potatoes if we steam them and we made considerable investigations in Cavan from that point of view. The price that we would get for those that we could sell would hardly cover the cost of the steaming process. I do not see, therefore, that it is any advantage to do that. As I say, other Governments are faced with the same situation and they have not attempted to solve it in that direction for the reasons, I expect, that I have given. That is the reason why we do not propose to attempt to steam or dry the potatoes. I may say that there is no real demand in the neighbourhood for doing either one or the other. What they want is to be paid compensation. I believe they realise that steaming or drying is no good as far as they are concerned. Anyway they made no demand for it. We cannot give them compensation. They knew when they were growing the crop that they were confined to the English market. In fact the English market is their only market in normal times. There is a very small market in Ireland and the position at the moment is such that if there were no restrictions they could not sell half of them and for what they would sell they would get small prices. In any event it would be almost impossible to administer compensation schemes with any sort of equity. How would you do it? You would have to compensate the man for the potatoes he has unsold and you will have a case like this:

You will have a farmer who looked ahead, who took a little trouble and put up a certain amount of stabling for feeding pigs. He foresaw this and decided not to have all his eggs in one basket. He put up stabling for pigs and was able to feed a considerable portion of his potatoes. He would have only half his potatoes left and he would get half compensation, because he helped himself, while his neighbour who had no initiative, who just sat down and folded his hands, would get full compensation. Again, how would you arrive at the compensation? What is the basic price? This year I suppose the price of these potatoes is not more than 7s. 6d. a ton. In a normal year they would consider £1 a ton an extremely bad price. £2 a ton I suppose would be regarded as a fair price. This year they would be glad to get even 10s. a ton. It is only when you start to go into the scheme that you see that it is administratively impossible. In any event, it is entirely undersirable and unsound. It would raise, in my opinion, a very wrong precedent and it would lead to a situation that Cooley would never become economic. The Cooley farmers undoubtedly would keep going on producing an uneconomic crop, knowing that the general taxpayer would come in and make them an advance. I am not suggesting that the Cooley farmer could feed all his potatoes to pigs. I only gave that as an example. I am not suggesting either that it is easy for them to change. The trouble about Cooley is this: Cooley is like a town that is built up around an industry that has collapsed. I do not want to say that there is no future for potato growing. Nobody knows that. At the present moment the indications are that there is not much of a future for potato growing. Potatoes seem to be out of fashion for one reason or another. Moreover, the yields are increasing, due to better breeds and higher manure. Further, there is less purchasing power in England. So that the indications are not good. Still, I do not know. Next year may be a good year. Nobody can say. The real trouble in Cooley is the big population that has grown up around an industry that has collapsed. It would be impossible for the Cooley people to be supported except by intensive tillage. Yet when you go in for intensive tillage, see what happens. You have a prosperous population for a number of years, then times change and that big population is left there very much at the mercy of the market and must be supported by subsidies.

Mr. Aiken

It is an export market.

Mr. Hogan

As I pointed out, there is no Irish market.

Mr. Aiken

There is an Irish market for stuff that they could produce.

Mr. Hogan

Perhaps. From that point of view, I see no better crop for them than what we have suggested. We are ready to make some experiments in connection with soft fruits.

Mr. Aiken

The Government have given a grant of £40 for experimenting in soft fruits next year. If the Cooley people are going to change from potatoes they have got to change at once. Otherwise they have got to go to America. I suggested a couple of years ago that in order to induce them to change into producing things for home markets they should get a loan free of interest on condition that they produced the crop which the Government thought they should produce.

Mr. Hogan

That is a principle that I do not like. We take responsibility for the crop and they agree to accept it under duress. You will never get a change unless the people themselves are enthusiastic for a change. I see no better way out of the difficulty than our own suggestion to increase the sugar beet area. We have increased it again this year and I think it is generally appreciated in that area that it will make a big difference. At any rate, we consider that the treatment of the potatoes is not worth while and we are not prepared to give compensation. As everybody in the area knows, we are investigating the question at the moment of whether we can give them credit for manures. That is as much as we can do.

Mr. Aiken

Could the Minister give them credit for anything that would enable them to utilise this present crop, at a very small rate of interest, for buying pigs or building pig houses? It is terrible to see such enormous quantities of potatoes going to waste.

Mr. Hogan

I agree. But there is no chance whatever that the Cooley people would put up pig houses and buy pigs even to make the slightest inroad into the present stocks of potatoes. It is not a practical suggestion. In my opinion they have got to change their economy in the right direction if they want to support the population that is there now. Even if they did build pig houses anything that they could possibly get at the moment would not make any sort of inroad into the big quantities of potatoes that are there.

Mr. Aiken

It is a third alternative that I am falling back on. It is not my first suggestion.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.50 p.m. until 3 o'clock on Thursday.