asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce whether he is aware that the unemployment insurance cards of men employed on road and quarry work by the Office of Public Works are not being stamped and whether he will state on what authority this procedure is adopted.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Unstamped Cards.
It has been the practice for many years to regard as uninsurable under the Unemployment Insurance Acts persons engaged on works which have for their object the improvement of agricultural land, such as the making and repairing of accommodation roads and bridges for agricultural holdings.
I am not in possession of complete information concerning all the works which are being carried out by the Office of Public Works in rural areas and am, therefore, not in a position to say definitely whether the persons employed on such works should or should not be insured. I am, however, having further inquiry made into this matter.
I presume that, in the course of his inquiries, the Minister will ascertain and place responsibility for those who are at the present moment not stamping the unemployment insurance cards of men employed in working quarries and doing other work identical with the insurable work undertaken by county councils.
Is the Minister aware that the practice which has been mentioned in his reply refers only to new roads being made in areas where land has been divided by the Land Commission, and does not refer to the maintenance of roads?
Is the Minister satisfied that the practice to which he refers is in accord with existing law and, if not, will he make inquiries from the legal advisers of the Government?
There is procedure by which any person interested can obtain a decision as to whether a particular type of employment is insurable or not. Whether such a decision has been at any time given in reference to this type of employment, I cannot say. I have referred only to the practice. If it is desired to have a decision in the matter, the machinery is available to that end.
Does the Minister, who is jointly responsible for the administration of the law, suggest that a matter of this kind should be decided on the application of a citizen to the courts?
Not necessarily on the application of a citizen.
Are we to understand that the onus lies on the person who should be insured to establish his case and not on the Minister's Department to ensure that there is compliance with the law?
There are a number of border-line cases in which it is difficult, at first sight, to say whether the employment is insurable or not. In these cases, the person, if he so desires, can get a decision as to whether the employment is insurable or not. In the case of the making of accommodation roads and bridges for the development of agricultural land, it has been the practice for a number of years to regard such employment as non-insurable.
Is it not the function of the Minister's Department and of the inspectors of the Minister's Department to decide what is and what is not a border-line case and to decide whether there should be, or should not be, compliance with the Unemployment Insurance Acts in a particular type of employment?
It is not the function of the inspectors of the Department to decide whether a particular type of employment is insurable or not, but the inspector can initiate a proceeding which will result in a decision being given in the matter if he has any doubt about it.
That is very different from the reply the Minister gave to Deputy Davin.
Will the Minister ascertain from the Land Commission if it was the practice in that Department to stamp unemployment cards in this class of work up to a few years ago, and will he state why that practice was discontinued?
My information is that it has not been the practice for a very long time.
Mr. Murphy
Will the Minister confirm that?
I have definitely confirmed it.
Is the Minister aware of any change in the law which would justify the dropping of it?
If the law is clear that persons engaged in any class of work are insurable, I shall take the necessary steps to see that the provisions of the Insurance Acts are carried out.
Mr. Murphy
Will the Minister ascertain definitely if, at one time, the Land Commission stamped the cards of men employed in this class of work and will he ascertain why that practice was discontinued?
My information is that on the class of work referred to—the making of accommodation roads and bridges in connection with the development of agricultural land-it has not been the practice to stamp the cards of workers.
Mr. Murphy
I ask the Minister to inquire again into that matter.
Will the Minister define "accommodation roads?"
Is the Minister aware that all roads in an agricultural country have been constructed and are maintained for the development of agriculture——
Not by the Board of Works.
If there is any doubt about the Unemployment Insurance Acts applying to those engaged in quarrying material for local roads or by-roads which will be maintained, ultimately, by the county council——
There is no doubt.
If there is a doubt about insuring such people, then there must be a doubt about a county council insuring their employees who are engaged in quarrying road material.
I do not think that there is any doubt that persons employed by a county council on quarrying work are insurable.
What is the difference between the provision of material for a main road and the provision of material for a by-road in an agricultural country?
I should like to know from the Minister (1) if his Department was consulted by the Board of Works before any instructions were issued on this matter; (2) when he hopes to complete his inquiries and (3) will he give the House an assurance that if it is found that there has been negligence, the rights of the persons affected will be made good.
Does the Minister not think that a Government Department should be scrupulously accurate in seeing that the law is observed, that the onus should be on the Government Department to see that the law is carried out, and that it should not shift that onus on to the worker?
There has been no change in the practice in relation to these minor relief schemes except this: these works are now being administered by the Department of Public Works instead of by the Land Commission. The practice adopted by the Board of Works in relation to minor relief schemes is the practice which has been adopted for many years by the Land Commission. It is possible that relief schemes, known as minor relief schemes, which fall into a different category from those formerly undertaken by the Land Commission, have been undertaken by the Board of Works. In that case different considerations would apply.