Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 19 Feb 1936

Vol. 60 No. 6

Committee on Finance. - Supplementary Estimates—1935-1936. Vote 22—Stationery and Printing.

Minister for Finance (Mr. MacEntee)

I move:—

Go ndeontar suim Bhreise ná raghaidh thar £14,627 chun íoctha an Mhuirir a thiocfaidh chun bheith iníoctha i rith na bliana dar críoch an 31adh lá de Mhárta, 1936, chun Páipéarachais, Clódóireachta, Páipéir, Greamuíochta agus Leabhra Clóbhuailte i gcóir na Seirbhíse Puiblí; chun Tuarastail agus Costaisí Oifig an tSoláthair; agus chun Ilsheirbhísí Ilghnéitheacha maraon le Tuairiseí Díospóireachtaí an Oireachtais.

That a Supplementary sum not exceeding £14,627 be granted to defray the Charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending 31st March, 1936, for Stationery, Printing, Paper, Binding, and Printed Books for the Public Service; for the Salaries and Expenses of the Stationery Office; and for sundry Miscellaneous Services, including Reports of Oireachtas Debates.

This Supplementary Estimate is wholly due to the increase in Departmental demands made in connection with new and extended services within the year. It is due largely to the requirements of the Departments of Agriculture, Industry and Commerce, Local Government and Public Health, arising out of the Widows' and Orphans' Pensions Acts, and the Revenue Commissioners. I do not think there is anything more to say on it.

General Mulcahy

The Estimate provides for an additional £10,000 for extra supplies of paper and envelopes for new and extended services. The Minister says that these are required by the Departments of Agriculture, Industry and Commerce, and in connection with widows' and orphans' pensions. Leaving out the question of widows' and orphans' pensions, in respect of which, so far as we can gather from complaints, most of the envelopes and stationery was used in writing back to people who made claims to say that they were not going to get any pension, we get something of the measure of the interference on the part of the Department of Agriculture with the farmers' work of carrying out their own business and on the part of the Department of Industry and Commerce, with the commercial life of the country. It is a rather interesting commentary on the extent to which that interference has gone on.

We know a certain amount about the interference, but the commercial community are even more docile than the farmers under the attack that is being made on them. We would expect that there would be a great development in respect of the opening of a new factory for waste-paper baskets if this interference is going to grow. The Minister is looking for £380 more because of additional expenditure incurred on distribution, cartage and freight charges. I should like to ask the Minister if that is evidence that there is at least one section of the population who have benefited by an increase in wages during the last 12 months?

Mr. MacEntee

I do not think I could say it is due to anything more than the fact that the volumes of the Oireachtas Debates are now heavier and cost more to transport, a circumstance with which I suppose the Deputy's Party shares responsibility with the Party on the Government Benches. I certainly could not say that it could be ascribed wholly to an increase in wages on the part of those who are engaged in the transport trade.

General Mulcahy

The idea is that there are more volumes of the Oireachtas Debates knocking around than were expected, and a lot more cartage in connection with them. Do I understand that what happened then was that the Government estimated that the Dáil would have been shut down for six months this year which the President suggested some time ago would be a good thing?

Mr. MacEntee

I was merely trying to remind the Deputy that, last week, I pointed out to one of his colleagues that, since he had started to discuss these matters, the cost of printing and the size of the Parliamentary Debates had gone up.

Mr. Cosgrave

There is one item— miscellaneous office supplies—in respect of which the Minister estimated that £7,500 would meet the requirements of the year. He finds now that he wants 40 per cent. more. One of the arguments, as the Minister will recollect, which his Party employed in order to get into office was that they were going to run this State very much more economically, and that they were going to save a couple of million pounds in connection with the ordinary Estimates without interfering with anybody. Here we have an additional Estimate for extra supplies of typewriters, accounting machines, office requisites, and so on. Would the Minister give us some information as to what those accounting machines are for; what amount of the Estimate is absorbed by the purchase of those machines; whether they will be of any use when the Government leaves office——

Mr. Smith

They will be worn out by that time.

Mr. Cosgrave

——how many persons are employed in using them; whether it was an inspiration since the beginning of the financial year that caused these accounting machines to come into somebody's mind as a means of saving money; and how is it that he was so far out in his Estimate as to require an extra 40 per cent. inside 12 months?

Mr. MacEntee

I think the Deputy in his last two sentences has answered his questions. It is true that we are modernising the Civil Service, and sometimes expenditure in this way is the best form of economy. There are one or two Departments where old and obsolete methods prevailed when we came in. We are changing that and, consequently, there is increased capital expenditure on accounting machines and typewriters.

Mr. Cosgrave

Would the Minister give us any information as to what Department of State they effected any economy in, because every one of them seems to be expanding, so far as its outgoings are concerned, and, not alone is there no prospect of the £2,000,000 saving, but each one seems to be increasing. For instance, we have an Estimate in respect of the Civil Service Commission, which is costing one and a half times at least what it used to cost, and now we have a modernising of the whole system. Does modernisation mean more expenditure?

Mr. MacEntee

Occasionally.

Mr. Cosgrave

It does? Then, the further we keep away from modernisation the better.

General Mulcahy

Are any of these accounting machines specially intended to aid the Government to add up the profit and loss side of the coal-cattle pact?

Mr. MacEntee

I think it is only the Deputy would assume that such machines could do that.

General Mulcahy

I agree that it would be a very funny machines that would do it.

Vote put and agreed to.