asked the Minister for Agriculture if he will state the reason why he has refused to grant licences to a number of people who usually engage in the purchase of different kinds of grain; whether he has considered what effect his action will have on credit for farmers next season and how those traders can be expected to meet their rents and rates on corn stores if they are denied the use of them by his action.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Licences for Grain Dealers.
I have given careful consideration to the matter of issuing licences to purchase grain from growers under the provisions of the Emergency Powers (Cereals) Order, 1941, and have had regard to the difficulty of controlling and ensuring the equitable and economical distribution of grain if it were assembled in small quantities by numerous dealers throughout the country. In general, licences to deal in wheat or oats have been granted to all applicants who in previous seasons were engaged to any substantial extent in the purchase of those grains. In the case of barley, and in the districts where it was hitherto grown for sale, I have considered it advisable to restrict the issue of licences mainly to those who have handled the bulk of the crops grown in previous seasons and who have the necessary drying equipment, storage facilities and experience of handling this grain.
I am not aware of any applicant having storage accommodation, who has hitherto been actively engaged in the purchase of grain and who has not been granted a licence to purchase at least one of the cereals to which I have referred.
Does the Minister realise that in some districts his order has resulted in practically giving a monopoly to some firms—to one firm in particular—in my constituency?
In what particular cereal?
In barley. Does the Minister appreciate that that firm is in a position to dictate terms and conditions—that it will buy barley on condition that it also gets his wheat from a man who grows wheat, and that in any case a man who has provided wheat seed on credit is not in a position to recover that money if he cannot buy back the grain from the farmer? Has the Minister fully considered those facts?
Very fully.
Has he considered what effect it is going to have on credit for farmers next year?
Yes.
Does he consider that a monopoly is going to provide all the necessary credit next year, if he cuts out a considerable number of people who have operated in grain in the past?
I do not know how the Deputy can speak of a monopoly, considering we have licensed 102 buyers for barley.
How many firms have been licensed in County Kildare?
Well, there are probably eight or nine in County Kildare.
If I supply the Minister with the names of firms which have been dealing in barley in the past, is he prepared to reconsider the matter?
To some substantial extent.
What does that mean?
Over 200 tons, say.
Mr. Brennan
Is the Minister satisfied, with regard to the licences issued to buyers of wheat, that people who were in the business last year, say down in the west, are capable of storing the amount of wheat now grown in that district? My experience is that they are not. In some cases, people have applied for licences and have been refused, and people in the locality who had licences last year are not able to deal with the amount of corn coming into the market. We have no barley buyers in our county, and we have quite a lot of barley.
In the case of applicants for licences to buy wheat, any applicant who bought wheat in the past and who has storage accommodation got his licence.
Mr. Brennan
That is not my experience. It is quite different down in Roscommon. There is only one person there who had a licence last year. That one person is not at all capable of dealing with the amount of wheat coming into the market. People who have ample accommodation should get licences. I do not at all agree that the Minister should licence only barley purchasers in a big way, because barley has been grown pretty extensively, and there have been no buyers in our part of the country up to now. We require them now.
In the case of barley licences, we have issued licences to people in new areas who never bought before. In the case of wheat licences, wherever the applicant had good storage accommodation, especially if he had drying accommodation as well, he got a licence, and people who purchased wheat in the past got licences as well. In cases where there were appeals I think I saw practically every one of them personally; I looked at the storage mentioned on the application forms, the drying facilities, and so on.
Mr. Brennan
Does not the Minister realise that, in order to accommodate the output from the increased acreage he must license a lot of new buyers?
And we were anxious to license people with storage accommodation.
Would the Minister say what is the purpose behind this order? One can appreciate the necessity for restricting dealers say in seed, and providing that they should have proper storage and cleaning accommodation and all that, but you should not unduly interfere with the normal trade in grain. Does not the Minister appreciate that when you give a monopoly to one particular firm to operate in a big district—I can give the name of the firm if necessary—it means that that firm can buy all barley as feeding barley, and sell portion of that as malting barley, netting a profit of 2/- to which it is not entitled at all? The Minister should appreciate that only the element of competition will ensure that the farmers will get that extra 2/-.
I should like Deputies to realise that, wherever there was competition in the past, that competition is continuing.
I can assure the Minister that he is killing that competition at present, and I can give him the facts.
I should be very glad to get the facts from the Deputy, because I can assure him that I was anxious to license as many buyers as possible. The Deputy has asked the reason for this order. The reason is that we must control, at least for some time, the amount of barley that is marketed, because it may be wanted for human food.
Are you going to put out people who have been in the trade for years, and expect them to meet their charges on the premises?
If they were seriously in the trade they are not going out.
I can give the Minister information on that matter.
I should be very glad to have it.
Mr. Brennan
What does the Minister propose to do in regard to places like Roscommon which never grew barley up to this year?
In new districts like Roscommon, we have issued licences to a number of applicants who never bought barley before.
Mr. Brennan
One of the most deserving of them, the Athleague Milling Company, has been refused a licence.
I will look into that.
In the case of a person who has storage accommodation for 200 tons of wheat, will he get a licence to deal in wheat, if he dealt in wheat previously, as a dealer or as an agent?
I may give rise to some misunderstanding by saying "Yes". In a number of those cases, where an application came in from a wheat dealer, or a person who purported to be a wheat dealer, if he stated in his form that he acted as an agent last year I think he invariably got a letter to ask why he would not act as agent again. He may have taken that as a refusal.
And he is not justified in doing so?
Does the Minister appreciate that a man who gets a licence to purchase barley is in a position to say to the farmer that he must also sell him his wheat? Does the Minister appreciate that?
That is appreciated.
The Deputy has already asked that supplementary.
I am trying to get an answer from the Minister.
It is all very fully appreciated.
Mr. Brennan
On the question of an agency to buy wheat, is it not true that in the case of an agency you would get only 6d. per barrel, while as a licensed buyer you would get 1/6?
I think that depends on the millers. There is nothing to prevent the miller from giving 1/6.
Mr. Brennan
The miller does not do that. He allows only 6d. a barrel profit.