asked the Minister for Supplies if he is aware that many areas in Dublin are finding it difficult to purchase their supplies of fuel locally in small lots; and if he will see that licences to sell turf and logs are issued more freely in each area; and that a price be fixed that will encourage traders to bring fuel to the outlying districts with a reasonable margin of profits, and satisfaction to the purchasers.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Fuel Supplies in Dublin.
Mr. Byrne
I have no evidence that any special difficulty is being experienced by residents of any particular area in Dublin City in purchasing their requirements of fuel locally in small lots or that there is necessity for a freer issue of licences authorising the sale of turf. Licences are not required for the sale of firewood logs.
The margins of profit of all traders in fuel are constantly under consideration by my Department, but the Deputy will appreciate that in the absence of an increased subsidy increased margins will lead to higher prices to consumers.
Mr. Byrne
Is the Minister aware that on last Saturday and Sunday, in the areas of Kimmage-Crumlin, Larkfield and Ellenfield, the people there had to come into town to look for supplies of wood blocks to enable them to cook the Sunday dinner? They had to pay bus fares in order to be able to get a stone or two of them, and then had to carry them home. That was stated by nearly every member of the Dublin Corporation on Monday. I personally got a complaint myself, and saw people looking for wood blocks in Railway Street in the City of Dublin.
I am not so aware. As I have already pointed out in my reply, no licence is required to trade in wood blocks, and any trader in these areas who wishes to go into the business is free to do so.
Mr. Byrne
Will the Minister not make it more easy for people to get fuel by having a fairer and a greater distribution of turf and of wood blocks sent out to these districts? The carters complain that it is not worth their while going from the North Wall to Crumlin to sell either wood blocks or turf because they can get only one load a day. Will the Minister see that there is an investigation made into the supply of fuel to these outlying districts?
The Deputy's point is that he wants a higher margin of profit allowed to traders in the black market.
Mr. Byrne
No, I want the bellmen who, at the moment, are belling turf, to be able to get two loads instead of one, and not to have them waiting for four hours at the turf dump to collect turf to bring it into the city. The turf dumps are unequally distributed.
The bellmen supplying turf in Dublin have not been taking the full quantity of turf to which they are entitled. There is no reason why bellmen cannot get more turf, and there is no restriction whatever on the sale of wood blocks.
Mr. Byrne
The Minister does not follow my point. What I want to know is, how can a man with a donkey and cart, who goes to the North Wall and has to wait there for three or four hours for a load, go out to Crumlin, which is four miles from the city, and come back again and get a second load to give to the people who live in these outlying districts?
What the Deputy wants is a higher margin of profit.
No. Why not put a dump in Crumlin?
That is not a practical proposition. If you were to take a whole dump of turf from the North Wall to Crumlin and dispose of it there it would add about £2 a ton to the cost of it.
What is to prevent the Minister putting a certain proportion of the timber and turf out at Crumlin, instead of having it all at North Wall, and of telling vendors who wish to trade from Crumlin that they can go to the Crumlin dump instead of having to travel four miles to the North Wall dump? If that were done, the Crumlin trader could deliver three loads per diem instead of one. He could make three trips in the day without increasing the price to anybody. That would ensure that everybody in Crumlin would have a chance of getting supplies. Why do you try to twist Deputy Byrne's words? You know damn well what the real question is, and why do you not answer it?
The Deputy, in employing the second person pronoun, was presumably addressing the Chair.
I am asking why the Minister for Supplies deliberately tries to twist Deputy Byrne's question, and refuses to answer the real question. Because he is trying to make political kudos.
Question 20 to the Minister for Industry and Commerce in the name of Deputy P.J. Fogarty.
Will the Minister answer the question?
Question 20.
You should not have allowed Deputy Dillon to make a speech lasting five minutes if you are not going to allow me to reply.
Hear, hear!
The Minister was allowed to rise and I was ruled out.
The Minister did not rise to reply to the Supplementaries.