I move amendment No. 1:—
In sub-section (2), line 25, after the word "authority" to add the following words:—"or such other stocks or securities for the time being approved of in that behalf by the Oireachtas as the Minister for Finance thinks proper".
Before dealing with the amendment, I want to refer to the context in which I gave notice that I proposed to move this amendment on the last day, that was, that I desired first of all to have one thing established as a fact and, secondly, that being established, by way of a security, that I would move then to enlarge the scope of the investments in which these particular Post Office Savings Banks moneys may be lodged. The Minister's reply to me on the first point purported to give the assurance which I looked for. I am quoting the Official Debates of the 6th December, Vol. 98, column 1619. I am there told by the Minister for Finance that what I proposed to do is already the law. The Minister then went on to say:—
"The State—that is, the community as a whole—is the final guarantor to the depositors in the Savings Bank... that they will get 2½ per cent. interest on that money so long as they leave it in the Post Office Savings Bank. That guarantee has always been there, to supplement the guarantee that the depositors always have, that the moneys deposited by them have been invested in certain securities."
I do not know whether the Minister is to be taken as particular about a phrase but I notice he says, "the depositors will get 2½ per cent. as long as they leave it in the Post Office Savings Bank". Of course, that is not what we proposed to do. The proposal I was making was that this money should be invested and I was asking that there should be a wider range of investments considered, not merely trustee securities, for the use of this money. The Minister went on to say:
"Every year the Post Office Savings Bank publishes a list of the securities in which these moneys have been invested. The final guarantee to the ordinary depositor that his money is safe is the guarantee of the State that, even in the event of these securities which have been published going by the board or depreciating in value, the State guarantees the depositor his money."
Then he says he felt—as a matter of fact, he thought—that on one or two occasions before 1920, the State chipped in and paid the interest on the deposits.
To get that matter absolutely secure, I want to know what Act or part of an Act puts the State behind the Post Office Savings Bank as the final guarantor of these securities? I do know that in reports made by the National Debt Commissioners a statement of that type appears but it may be nothing more than what the Minister was saying the other day, and that was: "Oh, of course, if anything happened, the State would have to be there to guarantee." What I am asking about is, is it laid down by a piece of statute law anywhere that, if these moneys are invested in certain securities which do not yield the amount required to pay 2½ per cent interest, the State then comes in with a special guarantee? Originally, of course, these moneys used always be handed over to a group known as the National Debt Commissioners, and I have seen a quotation in a book that the National Debt Commissioners, in a report which they made in a particular year, do assert that the State is there as the final guarantor. That is not the exact point. I want to know, is there any statute law anywhere which says that this guarantee must be given by the State? I would be very glad to get the assurance that that is so, because it would relieve me of any particular difficulty.
