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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 19 Jul 1951

Vol. 126 No. 13

Committee on Finance. - Adjournment Debate—River Suck Drainage.

I regret very much that I have to raise this question on the Adjournment to-night. However, in view of the fact that I have questioned the various people in charge for the past three years in connection with drainage and have met with failure on all occasions, I think it is essential that, in the interests of my constituents, I should raise this matter to-night.

The question which I raised with the Minister for Finance was one in connection with the drainage of the River Suck. I asked the Minister if he would state when the survey for the arterial drainage scheme for that sub-catchment area was likely to commence. The reply I got from the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister was that he is not in a position to say when the survey of the River Suck catchment area is likely to commence. I live in close proximity to this river, and it borders my constituency for practically the entire length of the county. I might say also that the Parliamentary Secretary himself has an interest in the drainage of this river. Apart from his duty altogether as a Parliamentary Secretary, he has duties as an elected T.D. for a constituency which is in close proximity to this river also. He is just as familiar as myself with the problem that arises there each year in connection with the dreadful flooding that occurs. I was absolutely dumbfounded to-day at the answer I received from the Parliamentary Secretary, because I was under the impression, and so were many of my constituents and Deputy Beegan's constituents as well, that this particular catchment area was going to receive priority treatment in the very near future.

However, the answer given to-day has made me, for one, realise that the problem of drainage will not evidently be tackled in a serious manner by the present Administration. This particular river drains a large area of land. Apart from the type of land that it drains, the question must be taken into consideration of the number of people who make their living on that land. I understand—and in this I may be open to correction—that the old priority list of drainage schemes that existed before the inter-Party Government came into office in 1948 was made out on the basis that good land must be drained first and that was the only thing taken into consideration. When the inter-Party Government came in that priority list was changed and other factors were taken into consideration such as the number of families which had to depend for a living on land that was subject to flooding. I want to put it to this House that on the land attached to the River Suck catchment area there are more people living to the square mile than are living on land adjoining any other catchment area in Ireland.

That, of course, raises, straight away, the question of the human element. I, for one, believe that, when there is a large number of families living on land in close proximity to a river that is liable to overflow at certain times of the year, that area should get priority and that particular river should receive first consideration. It is all very fine for us to say that good land needs drainage but if there are very few people owning that good land or very few families making their living on it, I think that the catchment area adjoining that land should remain lower down on the priority list than a catchment area adjoining land where a large number of families have to make their living.

The Arterial Drainage Act was passed in 1945. I seriously believe that, from 1945 on, when that Act was passed—I can only go by the references made in this House and by the speeches made by men who were Ministers at that time—Fianna Fáil were not keen on going ahead with the drainage works at a fast rate. That can be borne out by the fact that it was decided by Fianna Fáil that they would spend no more than the sum of £250,000 per year on arterial drainage. If the Fianna Fáil attitude with regard to arterial drainage is that they are not prepared to spend any more than £250,000 per year, then I can quite understand why the survey of the River Suck will not be carried out in the near future. A further proof that Fianna Fáil do not take drainage problems seriously is the fact that they opposed the Local Authorities (Works) Act under which a tremendous amount of drainage could be done.

The Deputy should not get away from the River Suck. That is the only matter we are discussing.

What the Deputy says is not true.

I am telling the truth.

We want to hear about the River Suck.

I am trying to make a case. I think it should be accepted that Fianna Fáil opposed the Local Authorities (Works) Act which was concerned with drainage. The fact that they opposed that Act and that they are only prepared to spend £250,000 per annum under the Arterial Drainage Act shows that they are not interested in going ahead full steam with arterial drainage.

The Deputy is travelling a long way from the subject-matter of the question. He must confine himself to the subject-matter of the question, which is a certain river.

I want to take the opportunity of congratulating the former Parliamentary Secretary on taking the River Suck catchment area out of the place in which it was on the list prepared by the Fianna Fáil Government and putting it high on the priority list. One thing on which I should like to congratulate him and the inter-Party Government on is that they showed in regard to the drainage problem in the West, including the River Suck, that they were prepared to help the people in the West of Ireland.

We hear a lot of talk from both sides of the House about the necessity for development and for improving the conditions of the people in the congested areas, but since we got native Government here little or nothing was done in the West of Ireland with regard to the drainage problem until the inter-Party Government came into office. As I said at Question Time, a good deal of work was done under the Local Authorities (Works) Act in the West, and a scheme was put up under that Act for drainage work on the River Suck. I do not know whether that scheme has been sanctioned by the Office of Public Works, and I hope the Parliamentary Secretary will give me some information with regard to that.

The point is that one of the good things which the inter-Party Government did for the West was the carrying out of drainage and now, when the term of office of that Government is over, we are back to where we started. One of the most essential things in the West of Ireland is the improvement of the holdings. If the holdings, small as they are, are water-logged and subject to flooding for six months of the year, how can we expect to get the increased agricultural production which is talked about by the present Government? The Arterial Drainage Act was passed in 1945. Between 1945 and 1948 not one single scheme was put into operation under that Act. The first scheme was started by the present Government on the Brosna river.

I do not want to interrupt the Deputy continuously, but he is wandering very far from the specific matter of the question. That is all he may deal with. If he wants to deal with arterial drainage, he will have to put down a motion.

I am trying to point out how the engineers and the machinery could have been made available for the River Suck.

The Deputy is travelling a long way from the River Suck.

I bow to your ruling, Sir. I have not much experience of raising matters on the Adjournment. The position with regard to the River Suck is that the drainage is not going to be tackled in the near future as we can see from the reply given to-day by the Parliamentary Secretary. I do not want to attribute to the Fianna Fáil Party a desire to sabotage the work of the previous Administration with regard to drainage. I should like the Parliamentary Secretary to tell me in connection with the drainage of the River Suck whether it is because of the shortage of trained engineers that he is not in a position to commence this survey work or because there would not be sufficient machinery available afterwards to carry out the drainage work. Is that the reason the survey is being delayed?

I understand that a number of engineers were recruited into the service recently and that a good number of engineers were brought into the service since 1948. I realise that engineers cannot be trained overnight for drainage work, that it takes a long period to make them experts at this type of work. The position was that, in 1948, there were no engineers available to carry out drainage work and that there were no dredgers or drainage equipment available. In spite of the fact that a number of engineers were recruited into the service since and that a good deal of equipment was purchased, we still find that the River Suck cannot be put high on the priority list. I do not believe the shortage of engineers or of drainage equipment is the real reason why this particular scheme is not to be tackled in the near future. In a supplementary question to-day I referred to the fact that the Parliamentary Secretary's predecessor stated publicly that it was his intention to put a survey party on the River Suck in April or May this year, if that were possible.

As soon as the survey of the River Corrib was finished.

Yes, as soon as the survey party was finished with the River Corrib. I am not in a position to say how far the survey work on the River Corrib has gone.

That should be finished in about three months.

I should like the Parliamentary Secretary to give me that information.

A Deputy

Put down a question.

Owing to the fact that those on the Government Benches want a very long holiday, it is not possible to put down a question until the 31st October.

We are not discussing that now. We are discussing the River Suck.

I should like the Parliamentary Secretary to tell us when the survey party will be finished on the River Corrib. I should also like to know if he is prepared to carry out the promise given by his predecessor, who said he would put the survey party on the River Suck as soon as the work on the Corrib was finished. I should like the Parliamentary Secretary to give a guarantee to the people whose lands are affected by the flooding of the River Suck that as soon as the survey party is finished with the Corrib he will put them on the River Suck. The position is that the Corrib is the biggest catchment area there and when the drainage work on the Corrib is finished the people along the River Suck expected that the machinery and equipment would be put on the River Suck because it adjoins the Corrib. To my mind, it would be a very senseless proposition to take the engineers and the machinery from the Corrib and bring them down to the South of Ireland or somewhere else and then have to bring them back again to the West. When the survey party has finished this work on the Corrib the Parliamentary Secretary should put them straightaway on the Suck and, later on, when the drainage scheme on the Corrib is under way, if possible, the Suck should be done at the same time.

I would ask the Parliamentary Secretary to take into consideration the fact that there are more people to the square mile along the Suck and in the catchment area than there are along the banks of any other river in Ireland. As he knows perfectly well, tremendous hardship is suffered each year by the unfortunate people in villages and areas along the Suck due to the severe flooding. I remember seeing one village where 18 families had holdings of approximately five to six acres each on which they depended for their livelihood and for three or four months in the year that village and that small amount of land was practically surrounded by water. A person died in the particular village and there was no way of getting the remains out except a path across the bog. That was the way that body had to be taken to the chapel before burial. That is a shocking state of affairs. The Parliamentary Secretary is as well aware as I am of the conditions along the Suck and the hardships that are imposed on the people. The loss of hay each year is enormous. I do not want to delay the House any longer, but I do want to get a promise from the Parliamentary Secretary that he will put the survey party at present on the Corrib on the Suck as soon as work on the Corrib is finished.

The Parliamentary Secretary has ten minutes.

A question was put to me to-day by Deputy McQuillan in regard to the drainage of the River Suck and I gave him a short, simple reply. That reply was based on fact and stern reality. I would be much better pleased if I could give him a much more favourable reply because, as the Deputy mentioned here to-night, the Suck is of some concern to me as well as to him. I said that I was not in a position to say when a survey of the River Suck catchment area is likely to commence. Deputy McQuillan then asked by way of supplementary question:—

"Is the Parliamentary Secretary aware that his predecessor stated that a first survey party would be on the River Suck in April or May of this year and will he state if he is prepared to carry out the promises made by his predecessor to this effect?"

I cannot carry out the various promises that were made by my predecessor and I am very sorry and the last thing I like to resort to doing is to take any skeletons out of the cupboard in regard to promises made, even by a member of the Opposition.

It is easy to make a promise. It is easy to have a fertile imagination that would lead one to make a promise but when I was faced with a position and a problem and knew that it was not possible to do that particular thing in the immediate future or after another particular river has been surveyed, there was no other course open to me than to give the reply I gave. I am told of course that my predecessor made this promise. If he did make the promise, let us take the promises in strict order. I have here a copy of the Ballina Herald of Saturday, December 2nd, 1950—mark the date.

Wait a moment. If Deputy McQuillan cannot talk about the Corrib, the Parliamentary Secretary may not talk about the Moy.

I am going to make my case to the Dáil. A question was put to me to-day as to whether I would be prepared to carry out the promise given by my predecessor and I am not going to give way to Deputy Dillon.

I am going to rule that we can only deal with the Suck and a promise made in respect of the Suck, if such a promise were made. That is all we can deal with at the moment. I have not allowed Deputy McQuillan to ramble around all the rivers in Ireland and I cannot allow the Parliamentary Secretary to do so.

I am only giving a short quotation.

It does not matter, short or long.

It was in respect of the River Moy, that it would be the first river surveyed after the Corrib.

We can only deal with the Suck.

Then the Suck came along and that was to be drained after the Corrib and this was made in February, 1951. How am I to keep these promises?

Because I gave you six new survey parties.

I will deal with Deputy Dillon too. He tried to draw a red herring across this to-day when he mentioned Tinnecarra rock and tried to link it with the Suck as if it was in a tributary of the Suck, which it is not. It is in a tributary of the Boyle, a river that flows altogether away from the Suck. The outfall of the Suck is into the Shannon. Why did he try to drag that red herring across the trail?

What is he talking about? He does not know where it is.

It was stated here, a Chinn Chomhairle, that Fianna Fáil did nothing by way of drainage from 1945 to 1948 and that they had no intention of doing anything. After all, if the Brosna was started in 1948, does not Deputy McQuillan and every other Deputy here know that the survey on that river had been completed when the last Government took office, which enabled the scheme to be started in 1948?

What has the Brosna to do with the Suck?

Deputy McQuillan mentioned the Brosna. The survey of the Glyde and Dee was well advanced and the survey of the Feale was also in progress. What has been done in respect of any new schemes since 1948? The Corrib is under survey. It is now in its fourth year. The survey will be completed by the end of this survey season.

Had you the drainage equipment to do the Brosna before 1948?

If not, how was it started in three months?

Who bought the equipment?

Does Deputy McQuillan try to make us believe that that machinery came in in the three months, when he came in, from the 18th February to the 20th May?

The Parliamentary Secretary seems to be talking about every river except the Suck.

The Parliamentary Secretary has only a couple of minutes. He should get them.

On the Suck.

Will he tell us when he is going to drain the Suck?

I am not going to make any definite promise. I am not going to make any foolish promise or any foolish statements because, after all, Deputy Dillon well knows that the survey party going to the Moy will deal with the comprehensive scheme and not, in his words, with any piecemeal or plugging scheme.

The promise about the Moy has been redeemed.

What about the Suck?

The promise about the Moy has not been redeemed. If the Chair permitted me—he said I should not refer to it—I would show very clearly where the promise was given that the Moy would take precedence over the Suck.

Is it intended to spend more than £250,000 a year on arterial drainage?

I will make my own speech. I am not here to deceive the people. It would be very easy for me to try to catch votes by making empty promises to the people. I am not going to do that and when I tell the truth I do not give a pin if none of the people on the banks of the Suck votes for me, when I know I am making an honest and truthful statement, and I will stand on that. I am not going to try any of this cheap propaganda that it has been sought to put across.

The Dáil adjourned at 12.20 a.m., until 3 o'clock on Wednesday, 31st October, 1951.

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