Vol. 179 No. 7
asked the Minister for Local Government why building grants for both new and reconstructed houses are not being paid where applications have been passed and listed for payment; if directions have been given to refuse payment of such grants until after the end of the present financial year; and if he is aware that the failure of his Department to pay those grants within a reasonable time is causing grave hardship to both the owners of those houses and the contractors concerned.
50.
asked the Minister for Local Government if representations have been made to his Department regarding the delay in paying building grants in cases which have been passed and listed for payment; and whether money is now available for payment of such grants.
I propose with your permission, a Leas-Cheann Chomhairle, to take Questions 49 and 50 together.
The applications for payment of these grants became unusually heavy during the month of February as a result of which the voted provision for the current financial year will not be sufficient to discharge to the usual extent accrued liabilities maturing within the year. In the circumstances arrangements were made last week for the introduction of the Supplementary Estimate which appears on the Order Paper today.
Might I ask the Minister if it is a fact that he is giving instructions in his Department to withhold until the month of April payment of grants already passed and approved?
There is no money to pay them.
That is not a fact.
If it is not a fact, might I ask the Minister why the grants cannot be paid?
Surely the Deputy is sufficiently intelligent to absorb what I said in reply to the question that I have already answered.
Is it the position that the Minister has authorised the Department not to pay grants——
The Minister has done no such thing.
They are not paying them.
In actual fact, they are paying them.
They have not been paying them but we have shaken a few "quid" out of the Minister now.
Might I ask the Minister——
The Deputy's Party gave us the legacy in 1957.
Order. Deputies should allow Deputy Flanagan to speak.
Is it a fact that in some cases, after the certificate of completion has been issued by the housing officer and payment passed, people are waiting for three or four months——
The Deputy's exaggeration is of the usual order.
I can give the Minister the facts.
For the information of Deputies, some of whom would wish to make it appear that this Government was falling into the ways of the last Government in regard to not paying their commitments, the following is actually the position and leads up to the situation which we are now discussing. When the Estimate for the year 1959-60 was being prepared in October, 1958, the allocation figures for new houses for the six months ended 30/9/58 were 1,458. On this basis the indications were that a total of 2,916 new house allocations would be reached in the year 1958/59 and estimated figures of allocations had been reasonably consistent in each month of the first half of the financial year 1958/59. It was decided to accept a figure of 3,000 allocations for the year 1959/60. In fact, new house allocations in the period 1/4/59 to 29/2/60 amounted to 3,472, representing an estimated figure of 3,800 approximately, for the full financial year which is, accounting for payments falling due in the month of February this year in respect of new house grant allocations, a figure of £225,000 which, subject to check, is the highest figure that was ever demanded from the Department of Local Government for the payment of new house grants in the month of February in any year since the housing drive first commenced.
Is the Minister talking about reconstructions or new houses or both?
In that particular case, I am saying that the new housing upsurge has far exceeded even our increased estimate for the year and it is that fact that has brought about the situation that our estimate is much lower than the expenditure will now actually turn out to be.
Does the Minister happen to have there the amounts paid in housing grants for the last five years up to the end of February in each year?
That appears to be a separate question.
Up to the end of March each year—yes.
We are not up to the end of March yet.
Even though we are not, I think the figures are illuminating.
Is the Minister speaking of new or reconstructed houses?
I am talking of the overall position. The figures I have here for the information of the House are figures for the years ending 31st March, 1958/59 and estimated figures for the year ending 31st March, 1960.
I do not want to interrupt the Minister but can he give us the figures for 1957?
No.
That is the one I want.
1957 is the important one.
So far as 1957 is concerned it is not quite so easy to find out what was then paid and what was not. It is not quite as straightforward as these figures which I will now give the House.
I suggest the Minister should ask the Comptroller and Auditor General. He will give a certificate.
The figures available to me now show that the total grants paid up to the 31st March, 1958 amounted to £1,506,222. The figure for grants paid up to the 31st March, 1959 is £1,329,704. The figure for the first nine months of 1959/60 is £1,425,235. The estimate of the total figure for this year will now certainly be in the region of £1,900,000, which shows approximately a 50 per cent. increase in overall grants this year over last year and a fairly substantial increase on the previous year.
And which is less than the amount paid in 1957.
They were not paid.
Could I ask the Minister if it is a fact that in March, 1957, his predecessor, Deputy Smith, now Minister for Agriculture, had to introduce a Supplementary Estimate for a sum of £2,000,000 to pay off the arrears of the "squawkers" over there?
Could the Minister inform us what percentage of the increase is in relation to the increased grant for reconstruction on the basis of a maximum of £120 to £140?
While I would like to be able to break down the figures for the Deputy, I am afraid it is rather difficult. Summing up the position at the moment, the demand for these housing grants, both new and reconstruction, is such that the increased figure for payment of all grants could not possibly have been anticipated. We have a figure of £225,000 for the month of February this year, which is the highest for any month of February, in any year, under any Government since the housing drive commenced. In addition, we also have up to date, not to mention what may yet come in, the highest number of reconstruction, repair, and improvement grants ever undertaken in any single year for a full twelve months since we started the housing campaign.
Why cannot the people get paid?
I have allowed sufficient supplementaries arising out of this question.
The people will be paid. They know they will be paid because they know that this Government will keep their word when they promise to pay.
Oh!
Perhaps the Minister will now arrange to pay the people their grants?
If the House treats the Supplementary Estimate on the Order Paper with the urgency Deputies seem to think this matter demands, the payments will issue so fast that the Deputies will not be home before them.
The Minister got his Estimate too fast last year.
Question No. 51.
