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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 8 Feb 1961

Vol. 186 No. 1

Public Business. - Mental Treatment Bill, 1960— Second Stage.

I move that the Bill be now read a Second Time.

Before I deal with the Bill proper, I would draw attention to a printing error which crept into page 4 of the explanatory memorandum as circulated with the text of the Bill. Deputies doubtless will have noted it when reading paragraph 9 of the memorandum. The sixth line of that paragraph is clearly an intrusion, which in the context does not make sense. It is in fact an accidental repetition of a line, the proper place of which is 9th from the bottom of the page, where in fact it correctly appears.

The purpose of the Bill is two-fold: it proposes in the first place to make some desirable, but not fundamental changes in certain of the provisions relating to patients which are contained in the Mental Treatment Acts; and in the second, to bring mental hospital staffs within the general scope of the Local Government (Superannuation) Act, 1956.

The Mental Treatment Act, 1945, introduced what were then fundamental and far-reaching changes in the law in regard to the care and treatment of people sufferng from mental illness. I think we can reasonably claim that its provisions were, at the time of its enactment, in line with what was then progressive thought in regard to the mentally ill. The intervening period has, however, been a time of considerable change and development in psychiatric thought, because of which I propose to institute a comprehensive examination into our provisions for the treatment of the mentally ill.

In our district mental hospitals at present, we have more than 19,000 patients. Our aim must be to cure, as speedily as is possible, as many of these as is possible. Many, of course, at the present level of medical science, are not capable of cure and must be retained in custodial care. But the outlook for very many others is much more hopeful. They can be cured, or their condition may be sufficiently ameliorated to permit them to return to their homes, their families and their friends. Many, however, who could otherwise be discharged with advantage to themselves, have no relatives who will accept them and no homes to go to—and these must be provided for otherwise. Up to the present very many such cases have been retained in the mental hospitals where they contribute greatly to the present overcrowding, thus impeding the treatment of other patients and retarding, even, it may be, preventing their recovery.

The problem, of course, does not end with the 19,000 patients at present in the hospitals. New cases are coming forward daily and have to be dealt with. Very many of these are suffering from disorders that are now susceptible to treatment, and these may be either completely cured or, at worst, be considerably alleviated. It is most important that patients in these categories should not be retained longer in hospital than is necessary. Indeed it should be the aim of those responsible for our mental health services to keep out of custodial or even therapeutic institutions as many as is feasible of those who may be suffering from mental illness—with due regard, that is, to the interests of the patient himself, his family and the community. With this in view, there is now an increasing emphasis on out-patient treatments; which may be given in general hospitals, at clinics, or even in specially provided psychiatric day hospitals to which the patient goes each day, returning each evening to his home. This is a concept which was scarcely thought of, even so recently as a decade or two ago, when treatment was generally regarded as being secondary in importance to custodial care.

We have made very considerable advances in health matters in the period I have mentioned. Our general hospitals, on the whole, bear comparison with similar hospitals anywhere as regards staffing, facilities and structure. We have done much to improve specialist hospitals, so that, to mention only two specialties, our T.B. sanatoria and our orthopaedic hospitals are now of the highest standard. The facilities in such homes for mentally handicapped as exist are likewise good—the difficulty is that we have not enough of them to cater for those needing care. Our homes for the chronic sick, the county homes, are not good; but at least we are getting down to the problem of improving them on a nationwide comprehensive scale.

Regrettably, we have as yet no such programme for the mental hospitals. It is true that major improvements have been carried out in a number, and these are now of reasonable standard; but the general picture is one of overcrowding and inadequate facilities. Much more extensive improvements than have been attempted up to the present are necessary and will be undertaken with all the speed that our resources and the competing demands on them permit. In the meantime, as I have said, the advances in psychiatric medicine, which have taken place since the Mental Treatment Act of 1945 was enacted, justify an investigation into our existing facilities for the treatment of mental illness, so I am setting up a Commission of Inquiry to undertake it. It will be the first comprehensive examination of the problem in this country to be undertaken in the light of modern knowledge.

The work of the Commission will be complementary to the work of the Commission on the mentally-handicapped which has just been set up, and the two Commissions will, I hope, work in close conjunction. It may be said indeed that their investigations, starting from opposite ends of the wide spectrum of mental infirmity, will ultimately overlap and merge. This may involve some problems in the reconcilement of their respective recommendations; from which it might be argued that the problems could be better examined by one commission rather than two. But when all its aspects are considered, the field to be covered is so wide, that if it were to be examined in detail by a single commission, the labour of that body might be unduly prolonged, and the benefits which should accrue to afflicted persons from developments in mental therapeutics might be unduly deferred. In these circumstances, I decided that the advantage lay with the establishment of two commissions. The establishment of the new Commissions will not, of course, operate to defer the carrying out of improvements in the existing hospitals.

While a comprehensive review of the entire position in regard to the mentally ill is proceeding, it would be inappropriate that I should propose any radical amendment to the Mental Treatment Act of 1945. Experience has shown, however, that it is very desirable in the interim to make some minor changes in those of its provisions which regulate or prescribe the procedures for the certification, chargeability, custody and registration of patients; and these are proposed in this Bill.

Unfortunately, this procedure involves a good deal of "legislation by reference"; and this no Deputy any more than myself welcomes, involving, as it does, the need for reference back to an original provision which, itself, may have been amended already. The explanatory memorandum circulated with the Bill should be of help to Deputies in that connection. More recently, however, following discussion in my Department, it was felt that it would be desirable to publish eventually a booklet setting out the procedure in relation to the reception and detention of patients and quoting the relevant statutory provisions as they will be amended if this Bill is passed. A preliminary draft of that booklet is available now to Deputies. I trust that not only will it obviate much of the labour of looking up the parent sections, but that it will give a better picture of what the code will look like if the amendments now proposed are accepted by the Oireachtas. The value to Deputies of the draft booklet will, of course, be greatest when the Bill is being considered in Committee and on its later Stages.

There is one respect in which the booklet will not be of value. It does not cover the superannuation provisions. These are explained in detail in the explanatory memorandum already circulated with the Bill.

The principal change which the Bill will make in relation to patients is the extension to all medical practitioners of the power to make a recommendation, or to sign a certificate, in respect to the admission of a chargeable patient to hospital. This extension is provided for in Sections 6 to 12, and in Sections 16 and 19. A chargeable patient is, broadly, a patient in a local authority hospital who is in the lower or middle income group and is, therefore, eligible for hospital service free, or at less than the full cost. At present, whenever a recommendation or certificate is required for such a person, only the authorised medical officer can provide it; and he normally is the district medical officer of the dispensary district where the patient resides.

The effect of this restriction is to preclude a patient, or his relatives, from availing himself of the services of the family doctor, should he not be the local district medical officer; in this way, it debars the majority of doctors, including psychiatric specialists, from providing their patients with the necessary certificate or recommendation. I am satisfied that this disability should be removed and that the power to make a recommendation, or sign a certificate for reception, in the case of a chargeable patient should be conferred on all medical practitioners, subject, however, to certain disqualifications— grounded mainly on relationship to or financial interest in a patient.

Section 3 gives the Minister power to make regulations authorising the making of payments to patients in respect of work done. There is at present no specific statutory power for this, although, in practice, payments are made in some places. In general, I visualise the making of token payments to encourage patients and to offer them an incentive to occupy themselves usefully, that is to say therapeutically.

Section 9 is intended to operate in cases where it is believed that a person is of unsound mind and, as a matter of urgency for the public safety or the safety of the person himself, should be placed under care and control. It puts beyond doubt the power of a member of the Garda Síochána to enter upon premises and to take into custody such a person and to bring him, if necessary, to a Garda Síochána station. This is a power which should, of course, be used in very exceptional circumstances only. It is true that Section 165 of the 1945 Act, as it stands, may be construed as conferring it. Nevertheless, in view of the fundamental right which is involved, it is desirable to remove any possible doubt as to the legal position.

Under the existing code, whenever it is desired that a patient should be admitted to hospital for detention otherwise than as a temporary patient, the applicant must be at least 21 years of age. There is no such restriction in the case of an applicant for the reception of a temporary patient whether chargeable or private. As it is desirable that nobody should be compulsorily detained in a mental hospital otherwise than on the application of a mature person, it is proposed that the age restriction which I have mentioned should apply also to applicants for the reception of temporary patients. Provision is made accordingly in Section 16 in relation to chargeable patients and in Section 17 in relation to private patients.

In addition, Section 17 will remove an inconsistency in the code. The whole basis for the reception and detention of patients is medical certification; but, at present, the reception order in the case of a temporary private patient is made by the person in charge of the private hospital concerned, and he may happen not to be a doctor. The section provides that, in future, in all cases the reception order must be made by a registered medical practitioner.

The change proposed in Section 18 is an important one. The section transfers from the Minister to the chief medical officer of the institution concerned the power to extend the period of detention of a temporary patient. Such a patient is, broadly, a person who is believed to require for his recovery not more than six months' suitable treatment, or an addict who by reason of his habits should be detained for his own sake in a mental institution for a limited period. At present the initial period of detention is six months. Under the 1945 Act, power is vested in the Minister for Health to grant extensions of this period up to a total of 18 months; so that in the case of a continuing temporary patient, the unbroken period of detention cannot exceed two years. In the case of an addict, though the period of detention can be extended to two years, it has been my practice, and the practice of my predecessors, not to grant extensions beyond a period of one year. The practice is based on the belief that if his addiction is not successfully treated within 12 months, there is little prospect that the addict will ever overcome his propensity. In asking the Oireachtas to transfer the power to grant an extension to chief medical officers, I propose, under subsection (1) (a) (i) of Section 18 that, in the case of an addict, it should be restricted to an extension or extensions not exceeding six months. In the case of persons other than addicts, extensions up to 18 months may be granted.

This House has always been, and very rightly so, extremely jealous in guarding the liberty of the subject and, before deciding to transfer from the Minister to the chief medical officer the power to grant an extension, I gave very careful consideration to the question of the extent, if any, to which in doing so I might be withdrawing a safeguard on the freedom of the individual. It will be appreciated that in deciding whether or not to grant an extension of the period of detention of a mental patient, the person who happens for the time being to be Minister has to rely on his professional advisers. In view of the number of extensions involved—about 3,000 per year at present—they in turn have to rely, to a very large extent, on the recommendation of the chief medical officer of the mental institution concerned; for it will be by sheer and rare accident that they will know the patient qua patient. Even in the exceptional case where they may remember having seen the patient, it will usually have been once or twice only and for short periods. Very, very rarely can they be in a position, from their own knowledge of him, to decide whether he should or should not be detained. While in practice all applications are carefully considered, invariably the word of the chief medical officer of the institution has to be accepted and the extension granted. It will be appreciated, therefore, that the present procedure provides very little, if any, real safeguard.

The new procedure which the Bill proposes to substitute for that now in force will, I suggest, not only preserve every possible existing safeguard but will constitute a more effective protection for the patient. Under it the patient and the person who applied for the original reception order must be advised that they can send to the Inspector of Mental Hospitals an objection to the proposed extension. On receipt of such an objection, the Inspector of Mental Hospitals will be obliged to call on the medical officer of the institution to submit a full report on the patient. If, on consideration of this report, the Inspector has any doubt regarding the propriety of the detention of the patient, he must visit the patient, possibly several times, and take such other steps as he may consider necessary to satisfy himself on the matter. If, having done all this, he still feels that the patient is improperly detained, he is obliged by Section 239 of the Principal Act to report this fact to the Minister, who, on the basis of all the considerable information then available, will decide whether or not to discharge the patient. Furthermore, paragraph (b) of Section 33 imposes a duty on the inspector, on the occasions of his statutory visits to mental institutions, to pay particular attention to the condition of those patients in them whose periods of detention have been extended since his previous visit.

Another important change, similar to that contained in Section 18, is contained in the section on repeals. Sections 197 and 202 and subsection (4) of Section 208 of the 1945 Act provide for the submission to the Minister of a mass of documents. Under the sections, notices of all receptions, departures, escapes, removals and deaths have to be submitted to the Minister. In the case of temporary patients and persons of unsound mind, copies of the reception documents and a report on the condition of the patient 21 days after his reception have also to be submitted. In all, this prescription applies to something like 38,000 documents each year. The requirement is one that has obtained in this country since the middle of the last century. In the circumstances of the times, it was probably assumed to be a safeguard against improper detention. Therefore, when these documents reach my Department, they are examined closely to ensure that the facts recorded on the forms create a prima facie justification for the acts to which the forms relate. But since the patient is not examined by my professional advisers, this routine scrutiny of documents cannot ensure that the statements made on the forms are accurate, or that any diagnosis made is correct. As a safeguard to the patient the value of the whole procedure is, in fact, so limited as to be negligible, and I am satisfied that its continuation is not warranted. I may say that a similar conclusion was reached by an expert committee of the World Health Organisation— Technical Report Series No. 98—and by the recent British Royal Commission on the Law Relating to Mental Illness and Mental Deficiency.

On the other hand, there are in the Mental Treatment Acts real safeguards against the improper detention of patients. Among them are:

1. The right which every patient has to have a letter forwarded, unopened, to any of the following: the Minister, the President of the High Court, the Registrar of Wards of Court, the Mental Hospital Authority and the Inspector of Mental Hospitals. In Section 36 of the Bill, the Oireachtas is being asked to add to these the Visiting Committee of a district mental hospital. Arising out of any such letter, the Minister may arrange for an examination of a patient by the Inspector of Mental Hospitals and for his discharge where justified; while similarly the President of the High Court may require the Inspector to visit and examine any patient detained and report to him.

2. The fact that any person may apply to the Minister for an order for the examination, by two medical practitioners, of a detained person and that the Minister must consider their report and may, if he thinks fit, direct the discharge of the patient.

3. The fact that the law specifically requires that a person who has recovered must be discharged.

4. The penalties which are imposed by the Act for detention otherwise than in accordance with the provisions of the Act.

5. The provision that the Inspector of Mental Hospitals must visit all mental institutions and that where the propriety of detention is doubtful, or where he is requested to do so by the patient himself, or by any other person, he has a duty to give special attention to the state of mind of any patient detained.

6. That any relative or friend may apply for the discharge of a patient and that, should the application be rejected by the medical officer of the institution on the certified ground that the person is unfit for discharge, an appeal lies to the Minister.

7. That every mental hospital authority must appoint a visiting committee, whose duties include a requirement to hear the complaints of any patient, and if requested to do so, to see him in private.

I think that the House will agree that in removing the necessity for the submission to my Department of a great number of useless documents, I am not in any way increasing the risk of improper detention of any patient.

Sections 19 and 20 dispense with the requirement for a medical recommendation for admission of the patient to a mental institution in the case of a voluntary patient, except in respect of a person under the age of 16 years. I consider that a person over that age, who feels that he should enter a mental hospital as a voluntary patient, should not be unduly discouraged by formal procedures, and that in such a case the requirement that a medical recommendation should be produced may be dispensed with.

The purpose of Section 21 is similar to that of Section 13, viz. to provide that a reception order shall be valid irrespective of the place of ordinary residence.

Section 22 and Sections 26-30 transfer to the resident medical superintendent of a district mental hospital the functions hitherto vested in the manager in relation to the release of patients on trial, to the giving of notices of recovery and to the discharge of patients. I think that on consideration it will be generally agreed that the resident medical superintendent should be in a better position than the manager to exercise these functions. He knows the patients and should be in a position to decide, from his own expert knowledge, whether it is appropriate that the particular patient concerned should be allowed out on trial or discharge. Similarly, it is proposed to transfer from the Inspector of Mental Hospitals to the person in charge, functions in relation to the release of a patient for a trial period—initially not exceeding 30 days—from a private mental institution. The inspector will seldom, from his own knowledge, be in a position to say whether a patient should, or should not, be released on trial. It is also proposed that, in a private institution where the person in charge is not a doctor, any notice of recovery must be given by a doctor.

Section 31 gives a health authority a specific power, though subject to the sanction of the Minister for Health, to arrange for the after-care of patients. At present, apart from the very limited powers contained in Section 223 of the 1945 Act, regarding the visiting of a patient by a medical officer after discharge, there is no specific power in regard to the after-care of patients. The organisation and development of an after-care service under the Section should permit the earlier discharge of patients and, in many cases, obviate the necessity of re-admission.

Apart from those I have mentioned, the provisions in the Bill which relate to patients are mainly of a consequential, technical or administrative nature. I do not think any major principle is involved in any of them; and I would suggest that it would be more appropriate to deal in Committee with any points which may be raised on this Stage in regard to them. So much for patients.

I have already indicated that the main purpose of the superannuation provisions is to bring mental hospital staff within the general scope of the Local Government (Superannuation) Act, 1956. They will also transfer, from the Minister for Health to the Minister for Local Government, functions in relation to the superannuation of that staff.

The Mental Treatment Act, 1945, and the Asylum Officers Superannuation Act, 1909, govern the superannuation of mental hospital staffs and under these Acts functions appertaining to the code are exercised by the Minister for Health. The superannuation of all other local authority staff (with the sole exception of staff employed by harbour authorities) is governed by the Local Government (Superannuation) Acts—in particular the Local Government (Superannuation) Act, 1956—for which the Minister for Local Government is the appropriate Minister. With the exception of mental hospital staff, all staff otherwise engaged on health duties come within the scope of these Acts. Since the coming into operation of the Health Authorities Act, 1960, and the abolition of mental hospital authorities as such, it is, I submit desirable to end the present anomalous position under which two separate superannuation codes are being applied to the two different groups of officers and servants engaged in the health services. Accordingly the Bill provides, by Section 41 and the First Schedule, that mental hospital staff shall be brought within the framework of the code relating to local authorities generally, with the Minister for Local Government as the appropriate Minister.

In the application of the Local Government code to mental hospital staffs, however, it is necessary to make a modification to reflect the special position of mental hospital personnel who have the care or charge of patients in the normal course of their duties. In the Bill it is proposed to apply to them the same provisions as already apply to fire brigade officers and servants. The effect of these provisions will be to continue the arrangement under which in the calculation of superannuation, each year of service in excess of twenty will count as two, and retirement is possible at the age of 55 instead of at the age of 60.

To preserve certain rights of existing officers in the mental health service, however, it is proposed to make a number of special provisions. At present mental hospital staffs pay a 3 per cent. superannuation contribution and other local authority staffs first appointed on or after 1st April, 1948, pay a higher contribution—5 per cent. for officers and 4 ? per cent. for servants. It is proposed that any existing officer or servant in the mental hospital service will not be required to pay a higher contribution than 3 per cent. during such time as he continues to be employed in the local authority service. Furthermore, staff who are now in the service and who have the care or charge of patients in the normal course of their duties and are subject to the superannuation provisions of the 1945 Act, have the benefit of an existing provision which enables a superannuation award to be made to the widow and/or orphan of a person dying in the service from any physical or mental illness contracted in the service —not necessarily in the course of duty. Under the Local Government code, such awards can be made only if death results from injury sustained in the course of duty. The rights, which existing officers and servants enjoy under the 1945 Act, are thus being preserved under the Bill. Officers and servants, however, who are still governed by the 1909 Act have not the right to which I have just referred, as they opted out of the superannuation provisions of the 1945 Act. Under the Bill, however, they are being afforded a second opportunity of acquiring it.

Detailed discussion of the very complicated superannuation provisions is a matter for Committee Stage but it may be convenient if I put on record now the main respects in which, as I see it, mental hospital staffs, present and future, stand to gain or to lose under the present proposals——

I propose to enumerate, first the main gains. These may be summarised as follows:—

1. Allowances and lump sums will be calculated, normally, on the basis of remuneration at the date of retirement and not, as at present, on the basis of an average remuneration over a period of 3 years.

2. If an officer or servant sustains an injury, in the course of duty, and he dies, within 7 years, as a direct result of the injury, a gratuity or allowance may be paid to the widow or widower, as the case may be, to a dependent father or mother and to, or in respect of, dependent children. Under the mental treatment code the position is, broadly, that not only must death occur in service, but gratuities, or allowances are payable only to widows and children and not to widowers or to dependent parents.

3. A short service gratuity will be payable after 1 year of service. A minimum qualifying period of 10 years is necessary under the 1909 Act and of 5 years under the 1945 Act.

4. An allowance and lump sum will be payable, on reaching an age limit, after 10 years' service. The qualifying period under the mental treatment code is 20 years.

5. In the case of officers added years for superannuation purposes may be granted in accordance with the provisions of Section 13 of the Local Government (Superannuation) Act, 1956. The chief advantages of these provisions are that years may be added in respect of professional qualifications, in respect of temporary service immediately preceding permanent service and in cases where the officer retires due to an age limit imposed after his appointment.

6. Superannuation benefits will be payable to servants who are not continuously employed but who work more than 200 days, in a year.

The items on the debit side I should emphasise apply to future entrants only. They are, I think, two in number.

The first is that future entrants will have to pay the normal Local Government superannuation contribution, 5 per cent. for officers and 4? per cent. for servants as against a flat 3 per cent. as at present.

The second is that future entrants will be eligible for allowances for widows and orphans only if death is due to injury sustained in the course of duty, and not, as at present in respect of death in service, whether it is due to injury or not.

I have not listed as a credit or a debit the fact that future servants will be superannuated on the basis of sixtieths with no lump sum as against the present eightieths plus a lump sum. According to the circumstances of the individual concerned, it could be either.

In general, I am satisfied that the new provisions will be more advantageous than the present ones for existing staff. In case, however, any officer or servant may feel that the existing provisions are more favourable in his particular case, he will have the option of deciding, within 12 months of the coming into operation of Section 41, that the new provisions shall not apply to him—and that instead he shall remain as he is while he continues to be a mental hospital officer or servant. It is my intention, in due course, to have a detailed memorandum prepared in language as simple as so complex a subject permits, setting out the differences between the two codes, so that each officer and servant can decide for himself whether he wishes to exercise his option to remain subject to the provisions which at present apply to him.

Section 40 covers the position of a person who was a civil servant, before a mental hospital officer, and then became a civil servant for a second time. The section is designed to remove a doubt as to whether his first period of service in the Civil Service can now be reckoned for superannuation purposes.

It will be noted from Section 43 that the provision in regard to superannuation shall come into operation on the 1st day of April. This requirement is necessary to keep these provisions in line with those in the Local Government (Superannuation) Act, 1956. It is my hope that it will be possible to have this Bill enacted in time to bring into operation, on 1st April next, the special provisions contained in the Local Government (Superannuation) Act, 1956, in relation to servants who are not continuously employed, but who work for a minimum of 200 working days per year.

There is one further point which I think I would like to mention. Most of the proposals for amendment of the superannuation provisions are contained in the First Schedule. The Bill was drafted in this way solely in order to avoid what could otherwise have been a very clumsy section containing sixteen subsections. On Committee Stage I shall be fully agreeable to whatever latitude the Chair may be prepared to allow to ensure that the many provisions contained in it be debated in as much detail as is desired.

I have already suggested that this Bill is one more appropriate for detailed discussion on Committee Stage than on Second Stage, and I trust that the Dáil will agree with that view. Before the Committee Stage, which I propose to suggest should not be ordered for a date less than a fortnight hence, I shall give careful consideration to any views which may be expressed in the course of the debate or to my Department later. If I cannot meet Deputies in relation to the matters they raise, they will still have the opportunity of tabling their own amendments, and these can be debated in detail in Committee.

The Bill which the Minister has moved is largely an administrative measure and I agree with the suggestion which the Minister made that the discussion on it will be largely a Committee discussion. While the Bill is an administrative measure, since it relates to mental treatment and to the problem of mental illness it is true to say that many Deputies may have been looking for something new in this Bill and some more concrete proposals in relation to the mental health service. In fact, there is nothing of that kind in this Bill. There are a few minor amendments of the Mental Treatment Act providing for certification and reception and for the increase in the periods under which temporary patients may be detained, but these amendments do not amount to a great deal.

The problem of how best to organise the mental health service remains virtually untouched. The Minister knows, and most Deputies realise, that the mental health service continues to be the Cinderella of our health services. It suffers from years of neglect; it suffers from lack of attention in the past and I should like to express regret that at this stage the Minister is not in a position to offer any concrete proposals for a new deal in mental health.

The Minister in his speech referred to the fact that there are 19,000 to 20,000 patients in our district mental hospitals. That figure has been pretty static throughout the years. It is a very high proportion for our population. So far as I am aware it has not altered in any way in the last 20 years or so, and certainly not since the Mental Treatment Act of 1945. The fact is that in many of our district mental hospitals patients are maintained—not treated, many of them cannot be treated—in appalling circumstances. The conditions of overcrowding in certain hospitals amount to a public scandal. That problem has naturally not been created by the Minister. It has been there for a long time. It is a problem which was there before the Minister went into office. What I complain about is that the Minister has no suggestion to make in regard to it. He talks about a commission. A commission is a very old Ministerial gimmick to have a problem forgotten by having it discussed by a commission.

The problem of overcrowding in the different district mental hospitals is, apparently, going to remain unattended. Everybody knows that in many of these hospitals there are numbered amongst the patients old, senile cases, chronic bed cases, poor old people who are suffering from mental deterioration as a result of old age and who normally would be accommodated and looked after in county homes. In fact, many of them are in our hospitals and that leads to overcrowding and apparently no real progress has been made in bringing about a change.

While I am critical of what I regard as the lack of progress, I should not like to say that the Minister is wrong in any way in having the problem of mental treatment examined even now. He has told us that he is establishing a second commission to work with the commission already announced, which is dealing with the problem of mentally handicapped children. That is probably a good thing. It comes a bit late but at least it may mean an examination will take place now of the whole problem and that from the work of the commission sometime in the future concrete proposals will be announced and a change may come about. It is a pity that that is only being done now but I suppose we should be thankful that at least it is being done even at this late stage.

The amendments of the Mental Treatment Act so far as patients are concerned are generally desirable. I always thought it anomalous that a patient could be certified only by a particular doctor and that frequently the doctor, who might be a family doctor or indeed a specialist in mental illness, was not authorised or in a position to certify. That amendment is a desirable one and I welcome it. Other amendments mentioned by the Minister are in relation to the question of authorising payment for services rendered by patients of mental hospitals and this has been a difficult problem over the years. I suppose there are two points of view on it but I accept what the Minister says, that it is desirable that authorisation should be given in recognition of a situation which apparently already exists in many parts of the country.

The Minister is quite right in providing that the chief medical officer should have the restrictive power to extend the period of detention of temporary patients. In the way the Minister proposes to amend the law it will mean there will be a real consideration by a person having a direct responsibility to make an extension of the period of detention. In the long run that is more in the interests of the individual.

The other change mentioned by the Minister, the transfer from the manager to the resident medical superintendent of the power to approve of the discharge of a patient, is an eminently sensible change. Obviously, it was quite wrong that that power should have been exercisable—I know it was done on advice—by a lay person. It is obviously much better that that power should now be given to the R.M.S. of the hospital concerned.

Generally, the Bill being an administrative one, I would support the changes suggested by the Minister. With regard to the superannuation provisions, we might all feel that it would be better to discuss those in detail at a later stage. Obviously, there may be particular points about those provisions on which we might seek further information from the Minister at a later stage.

I should begin by expressing my appreciation of the comprehensive speech of the Minister and of the way in which he has handled the introduction of this amending Bill. The Minister has given us a very comprehensive report and has had the courtesy to distribute copies of it. He had already supplied Deputies with a very comprehensive White Paper dealing with the Bill with additional documentary information that would help any Deputy who was anxious to understand the effects of this Bill as against the various Mental Treatment Acts that have preceded it. That is a headline that might very well be copied by other Ministers and I express on behalf of my Party our appreciation of that treatment.

As the Minister has said, this is not a Bill for Second Reading speeches. If there is any useful work that can be done on the Bill it will come on Committee Stage and it is on that Stage that the document supplied by the Minister's Department within the last week will be of great use and will obviate the necessity for the awful research work that many of us cannot undertake because of pressure of other business with the result that we cannot be as well informed as we might be as to the intention of legislation.

I think I would be correct in saying that the Minister has had discussions with the various trade unions who deal with the welfare of staff. If he has not had such discussions, he must have some inside knowledge because many of the proposals and amendments desired by trade unions at the early stage are incorporated in the Bill. The Minister was very wise in his attitude in that regard. In dealing with the superannuation of staffs, he has made provisions that should be suitable to all concerned. In particular, he was very wise in giving to existing servants the opportunity of opting to accept the provisions of this Bill or to remain under the preceding Acts. That was very wise and should lead to general acceptance of the position by those in actual charge of patients.

It is not necessary to state to the Minister or to anybody else that a contented staff dealing with mental patients is of the utmost importance. Patients suffering from mental disorders need all the kindness, consideration and attention that it is possible to give them. Such patients try the nerves of those dealing with them. If you have a discontented staff or a staff labouring under the belief that they have been treated wrongly or shabbily, that will have a detrimental effect on the running of the hospitals. The Minister has gone a long way to avoid that. It is on the Committee Stage that necessary alterations can be suggested.

Like Deputy O'Higgins, I welcome the Minister's decision to legalise payment of patients. Even though it is only in a small way, that provision will encourage patients to take up employment of various kinds. As the Minister knows, payment, if not in cash, was certainly given in kind by many resident medical superintendents who felt it desirable to encourage patients to rehabilitate themselves and to prepare for final discharge. It is well that these things should be done openly and that they should not have to be done behind doors, as it were, rather than in the open light of day.

There is one very minor matter which occurs to me. The Minister proposes to give members of a mental hospital visiting committee the right to receive letters or complaints from patients. It seems strange that he has not seen fit to include a provision whereby a member of the Oireachtas would have the same right as a member of a mental hospital visiting committee. The person most likely to receive complaints in a letter smuggled out or sent out openly is a member of Dáil Éireann. Deputies are in the public eye and I have repeatedly received letters from patients and, where I felt it necessary to do so, have investigated. I was aided, of course, by the fact that I was also a member of a mental hospital committee but if I should find myself in the position of being a Deputy and not being a member of the health authority, I would be excluded from the right to receive a private letter from a patient if the R.M.S. so decided. I do not feel that there is any danger but it might be just as well to include members of the Oireachtas as well as members of the mental hospital visiting committee.

Not all of the Deputy's colleagues might agree.

That may be so. It depends on how anxious people are to interest themselves in mental patients. Most people are quite happy to leave them there and forget about them and to say, if they get a letter from such a patient, "He is certified as insane." A complaint from a mental patient can be ignored on, the grounds that the person making it is insane. That is the gravest danger. Personally, I pay more attention to a letter that I get from a man who is certified as insane than I do to the letter from the insane people outside who are not certified.

I agree with Deputy O'Higgins that consideration should be given to the problem of overcrowding. It was regrettable that some years ago an order went out from the Department to transfer all feeble-minded people from county homes to mental hospitals. That was done about the time the war started, if my memory is right. It was a mistake. It resulted in grave overcrowding, certainly in my constituency. Many old people of feeble mind rather than mentally ill, were transferred from the county home to the mental hospital and occupied much-needed beds. A reversal of that policy would be very desirable but I may be anticipating a matter that will be dealt by the commission.

I welcome the establishment of the commission. They have a big task. There is another commission to report on mentally handicapped children. I do not know whether or not it is a good thing to have two separate commissions, but I accept what the Minister has said. The problem is so big that it might delay recommendations that are urgently needed if one commission had to deal with all aspects. The after-care of patients is of the utmost importance. In the past I have taken a very keen interest in the question of mental treatment and also in the problem of after-care on the discharge of the patient. Not only is there necessity for after-care on there is grave need for a rehabilitation scheme. I remember the case of a man who was discharged from a mental hospital and who because he could not secure employment went back repeatedly to the mental hospital. Through the co-operation of a good employer he was given an opportunity of engaging in useful employment and he made good. That was years ago and now he is a well-conducted and dutifully-working citizen. The R.M.S. agreed with me that it was due mainly to the fact that he was unable to get employment that he had to return to the hospital repeatedly in the past.

Some agency or some body of people will have to be established to ensure that these patients secure employment when they are discharged from hospital. Whatever about delay in the case of people who are physically afflicted, there is great danger for the person who comes out cured from a mental institution and is unable to secure employment that will occupy him. There is greater danger of his going back again than in the case of a person physically affected.

On behalf of my Party I welcome this Bill. We shall co-operate with the Minister in seeing that it is passed into law before the date he suggests, 1st April.

I want to join with other speakers in welcoming this Bill. I agree with Deputy T.F. O'Higgins that mental treatment and mental health have been regarded as the Cinderella of the services. That attitude is changing now and changing rapidly. There is abundant evidence of people going voluntarily for treatment for mental illness. That is a new development and a very welcome one. In Cork we had to increase the number of clinics for treating people who come voluntarily.

We all agree with Deputy Kyne that overcrowding is a very serious drawback. I am glad to say that in Cork we have been able to improve the position to some extent by providing an ex-sanatorium for some 180 to 200 old ladies. I am firmly convinced that there are too many people in mental institutions whose only fault is that they have grown old. I wonder are they fit and proper inmates for a mental institution.

I also welcome the fact that the Minister is treating the staffs sympathetically. Anybody who has to deal with mentally ill patients is a man or woman with a special vocation and it is well that there should be no impediment to the proper performance of the service they give to those unfortunate people. On behalf of my constituency, which contains a very big mental institution, I welcome the Bill and commend the Minister for his interest in these mentally afflicted people.

As far as this Bill goes I welcome it. I realise the Minister and his Department have put a great deal of study into the matter of producing a Mental Treatment Bill. It is one of those Bills that could very easily become unconstitutional if it were not very carefully looked into. In fact I have heard the rumour that there have been several previous attempts to produce a Mental Treatment Bill and the legal advisers of the Government of the day advised that they would want to go carefully at it if they were to confine themselves within the Constitution.

We are dealing with a complex matter in mental health, a matter which one can truthfully say has been somewhat neglected over the years in relation to other medical services that have been introduced. When he was introducing the Bill the Minister could perhaps have endeavoured to embody in that Bill provisions to deal with the outstanding mental problems that face us today. While saying that, I fully appreciate what the Minister has said, that this is an instalment of things to come, that he has set up a commission and that he prefers to wait until that commission issues its findings or its views before moving further in the matter.

This Bill deals mainly with the ordinary district mental hospitals in relation to chargeable patients and private patients. However, it is impossible to divorce them entirely from the mentally defective child. Unfortunately in many of our hospitals we find mentally defective children. Through force of circumstances they are being put into these hospitals. There is nowhere else to put them. The waiting list is so extensive that parents, finding for domestic reasons, and so on, they cannot keep these children at home, have to send them somewhere and there is nowhere to send them except to a mental hospital. As regards the overcrowding referred to by Deputy O'Higgins, a great deal of that could be eliminated if there were some immediate accommodation for the mentally defective child. For that reason I regret the Minister and his advisers have not been able to think out some scheme for dealing with this problem as a matter of urgency so that it would receive the degree of attention that is so vital to it.

Our tremendous difficulty in Ireland is that we have not been able to deal with the problem of the mentally defective child. There is the continuous inflow of these cases and there is no outflow. The Minister might consider on a later stage of this Bill embodying a provision to deal with the damming-up in the mental institutions which are available to children so as to release at one end some of the cases in order to make room for the urgent cases that are waiting in many families.

As a man with medical qualifications I receive correspondence relating to this problem and I am cognisant of a case in my own constituency of a family where there are three mentally defective children waiting for admission to the hospital. Their ages are ten, nine and seven.

Anybody with any knowledge of mentally defective children knows that unless they are taken at an early age for treatment, they have no chance of ever benefiting from it. That is the immediate problem facing the Minister and his advisers. No one can directly blame the Minister or his present advisers for this state of affairs; it has existed and has become aggravated throughout the years. A really practical approach should be made to it as soon as possible to enable at least some defective children to be taken to hospital for immediate treatment.

I am aware of the devoted services of the St. John of God Brothers and I should like to pay tribute to them for the work they have done over long hours with small staffs, with no reference to trade union hours, because they never consider anything but the service they give to humanity. The same applies to the Sisters of Charity in respect of the female patients. These Orders find themselves short of staff because, I suppose, in this material age, there are not so many religious vocations or perhaps it is because there are more outlets for religious life and more people may go into foreign fields to give their services there.

The institutions are under-staffed and over-stocked with patients. In most cases, they cannot get rid of patients: once taken on, it is found that in spite of all the service and treatment given, the same patients or a majority of them are still there at the end of a period. I suggest that the Minister and his Department should give serious consideration to the possibility of having a full discussion with these religious Orders and with other institutions doing similar work—I think the Church of Ireland institutions also do it. It could be considered whether it would be possible for them to acquire premises with State funds where they might lay off those patients who are not acutely affected, who have improved to some extent, so that they might run a farm. If the Orders were able to buy a fairly big estate, they might get some of the patients to work on the land and provide food for themselves as well as employment, so that they would feel they were leading useful lives. They might even help to provide food and keep down expenses in the existing institutions of these Orders. It does not seem to be a very difficult problem if faced in that way.

On average, I think one might say that of 100 patients who go in, probably 20 or 25 per cent. could be laid off in that way. That would considerably decrease the heavy charge on existing institutions and to a large extent it would obviate the need to send cases into ordinary mental institutions, cases that were never intended to be sent there, cases that can never benefit from being there and are sent there only for domestic reasons and because they must be sent somewhere.

Perhaps the Minister and his advisers would consider that point and see if they could tackle the problem in that way as an acute emergency, on a temporary basis, while awaiting the report of the Commission. Commissions always give devoted service but take a long time to produce reports because they must get all the evidence and facts. A great many of the facts I have cited are fully known to the Minister and his officials.

Having said that, I regret that something has not been done already to deal with this acute problem. I appreciate the fact that the Minister and his advisers are alive to it. I welcome the Bill and the idea behind it, which is to keep in line with modern trends and development. As the Minister said, some years ago, people went into hospital and stayed there perhaps indefinitely. There was not anything like the proportion of recoveries that we find today. Now, with modern medical aid and therapeutic treatment particularly—I think the electric shock seems to cure people quicker than anything else—many who previously would stay in institutions and become chronic cases now recover within a comparatively short time and can be discharged.

Two things appear to be necessary: to get patients who require treatment into the treatment centre as quickly as possible and to get them discharged with the greatest possible facility. Therefore, I am glad to see several innovations in this Bill. One practically amounts to a choice of doctor. The family doctor, in spite of the tendency towards State medical services, is still the confidant of the people he treats and for that reason the advice he gives will be taken and acted on. It is always difficult to advise relatives that it is necessary to send somebody to a mental institution. It is not difficult, of course, when they have six or 12 months or two years' experience of trying to look after the patient but it is difficult in the early stages when it is so vital to get the patient transferred to hospital for treatment immediately. The person who will now give that advice is the family doctor and his advice will be taken. The anomalous situation up to this was that he could not certify the patient and that is one of the big difficulties removed in this Bill. I welcome that.

Any family doctor, district medical officer or whatever he may be called under the modern medical service code, is now free to certify a patient and send him to an institution. Previously, when a patient was about to be discharged, he had to go through cumbersome machinery and have the papers sent to the Minister. I have not been a Deputy for 10 years without knowing what sending papers to a Minister means. It means the documents go to the advisers who send them to experts in the Departments; the experts send them back and gradually they go up to the top. Eventually, they come to the Minister and the patient is discharged. That procedure is abolished under this Bill and as far as I can see, it is the doctor who is attending a patient, who is in a position to know his health, at the time he is to be discharged who will now be free to discharge him. He is really the person who knows. Not having much experience of medical matters in mental hospitals, I imagine if a doctor were discharging a patient through this complicated, antediluvian machinery which existed, he would want about three months' notice unless the Minister and his officials were prepared to work overtime. Three months was the minimum required because of all this unnecessary machinery. The doctor had to approach people who really knew nothing at all about the patient. I welcome the proposed change.

It may be argued that there is a certain element of risk. There is also a certain element of risk in the admission of a patient. The papers may not be sent on and the Department may not be cognisant of what is actually taking place. I think there are adequate safeguards in this Bill. It is our fundamental duty to protect these people because they are unable to protect themselves. If it is felt there are not sufficient safeguards that is a matter that can be discussed on the Committee Stage.

Another anomaly which hitherto existed is also being removed by this measure. The Minister is now making it possible for an ordinary practitioner to seek the assistance of the Garda to take a patient to hospital and the responsibility is on the Garda to provide transport. There have been cases where people with no means had to be taken to mental hospitals. Transport had to be provided. There were often considerable delays in getting the necessary order and the necessary authority. That delay will be obviated under this measure.

I welcome the Bill subject to the reservations I made at the outset. Steps should have been taken to deal with mentally defective children so as to avoid their being admitted to ordinary wards in mental hospitals. A lot of useful discussion lies ahead of us on the Committee Stage of this measure. I confess I have not read the Bill in toto but I have read the Minister's speech. I glanced through the White Paper this afternoon. Subject to the reservations I mentioned, I welcome the Bill. I have no doubt we will have a very useful discussion on the Committee Stage.

I should like to join with other speakers in welcoming this Bill. I agree with them that it is very largely a Committee Stage Bill. There are, however, one or two points I should like to put forward at this stage. I endorse what Deputy Esmonde has said with regard to mentally defective children. They present one of the most urgent problems in the sphere of mental health. I must admit that in my county we do not suffer from the problem of overcrowding. I understand overcrowding is a very serious problem in other areas. In our mental hospital, while everything in the garden is not lovely, there is really no serious overcrowding.

I have been a member of the visiting committee for a number of years and I appreciate that the problem of mentally defective children is a serious one. Hospitalisation after the present fashion must be bad for the children and distressing for some of the adult patients. Like Deputy Esmonde, I welcome the improved machinery for committal and discharge. On the question of transport, I shall have a word or two to say on Section 12 of the Bill on the Committee Stage. The section does not appear to me to be absolutely clear as to whose is the responsibility in the matter of transport.

I believe that the biggest handicap in the treatment of mental disorders is financial. I think this should be treated as a national problem. I am not a member of the local authority and I have no particular local gun to fire but I believe that if we dealt with this as a national problem there would be greater uniformity of treatment in the various areas. At the moment conditions in the different hospitals vary very much. One of the first things that should be provided in a mental hospital is a completely different type of surroundings from those which obtain at present. I am not a medical man. I can only speak as a result of my own observation and in the light of the experience gained from hearing medical men discussing the problem. One of the most important steps in the treatment of mental illness is to get a condition of greater normalcy around the patient. Confining people in such obviously institutional-like buildings can scarcely be conducive to a speedy return to mental normality.

Another disadvantage arises in regard to admission. Different types of patients are banded together in one admission block. A voluntary patient suffering from nervous strain, for instance, may find himself in a ward with two or three mentally defective children who scream all night. That is the worst possible environment in which to place someone suffering from some mild neurosis as a result of being run down. We have attempted to improve on that situation in Donegal. We have improved admission conditions but, for financial reasons, we have not been able to do any more than tinker with the problem.

I believe the State should come in on this and not leave so much to the local authority. As a result of ten years of experience on a local authority, I know that one of the first cock-shies when an attempt was being made to reduce the rates by one penny in the £ was the mental hospital. No one seemed to want to know that there was a mental hospital, and the first thing that would be done to reduce the rates was to dock the mental hospital. I believe things have improved slightly, but there is still this shocking problem with regard to finance. With the rates running at close on 50/- in the £, one can well appreciate that the members of the local authority have to be very, very cautious indeed. That is one of the main reasons why I contend that the treatment of mental health should be a national problem. It is not easy for an ordinary member of the public who has not much experience of the work of a mental hospital to appreciate what is really needed. The ordinary county councillor looking, for instance, at St. Conal's Hospital, Letterkenny, will see it is a very fine building and that everything is extremely good. Topographically, the situation is excellent. The building, even though it is very fine, has the slight defect that a good deal of money would need to be spent to make it less institutional. We have endeavoured to provide better furniture and to create better conditions and we have provided a canteen. I welcome, therefore, the provision in the Bill by which the patients can earn some money to spend at a canteen. Having the patients able to do at least that much, in the same way as they would do it at home or outside, is a very great help.

However, I should like to see that extended. I should like to see a far more dynamic drive. That drive must, I think, come from the centre. It cannot be left to the local authorities, who do not know very much about it. This problem is one of getting away from the institutional atmosphere and providing better amenities for the people who have the misfortune to suffer from mental illness. In the long run, it will be cheaper for the State because modern developments over the past ten or 15 years have brought down tremendously the average length of stay. It could be reduced very much more if we could get into the mental hospital more of the outside atmosphere.

One thing that should be striven for is a getting away from the segregation of the sexes. In the better mental hospitals across the Irish sea, the patients are allowed to mix in the canteen. I shall not say there is a club atmosphere there, but a club atmosphere would be an excellent thing and a very great help in restoring many people to better mental health.

I welcome the Bill as a step in the right direction. I hope the Minister will not rest at this and that he might even be tempted to do a bit more before he gets the reports from the Commissions. As an ex-Minister for Finance, the Minister knows just how much chance he has talking with the present Minister for Finance about more money. It is not altogether a question of spending more money than is being spent at present. I should like to see the charge removed from the local authorities and put on the Central Fund, not so much to save the local rates as to get more equality of treatment, better standards all through and a more dynamic approach. I do not think that can come from anywhere but the Department and I hope the Minister will be encouraged to go on those lines.

This Bill will be accepted, I feel sure, as a progressive development of the very enlightened and humane measure introduced by Dr. Ryan in 1945 and passed by this House. The Minister must be complimented on its provisions. They will lead to a better approach to the whole question of mental treatment, thus giving the people a more confident feeling about the prospects of a cure. Formerly people were committed to the mental hospital if they got a serious nervous breakdown or something of that kind. However, in 1945, Dr. Ryan envisaged——

Dr. Ryan was Minister at the time and Dr. Ward was Parliamentary Secretary. It was set out at that time that there would be a period of observation before a patient was committed so that there would be a chance of curing the ailment, as very often happens, in the first three or six months. Unfortunately, there were not sufficient facilities to carry out the provisions of that Bill and it is only now that in certain places the Minister has made arrangements to have separate institutions available so that patients will not have direct contact with the mental hospital until a stage is reached when an immediate cure is not anticipated.

As far as children are concerned, the Minister is wise in treating that problem in a different manner by setting up a separate commission. Experiments have been carried out for some time on what may be done for the treatment of mentally defective children. As Deputy Sheldon has said, provision is being made whereby contact with the home is not broken. Those who are less seriously ill go home every night and those who are more seriously ill are kept in the hospital until the weekend, but they go home during the weekend. They are being attended to by nurses and teachers who are specially trained. They are being cared for in institutions which are partly schools and partly clinics. However, that is another day's work. But a start has been made and I am sure it will produce very good results.

I am glad also that the Minister in this measure has given the opportunity to the very few workers in the institutions who did not avail of the pension provisions in the previous Acts to benefit now. Generally, I think this Bill is a great step forward. We all welcome it and congratulate the Minister on its introduction.

This is mainly a consolidation Bill revising many of the sections of the previous Mental Treatment Acts to give us more streamlined legislation in relation to this problem of mental health. Because of the rapid advance in the science of mental health treatment over the past 20 years, legislation should be modernised to keep pace with the progress made. To-day we have the situation where the number of persons undergoing mental treatment who are discharged perfectly fit is far in excess of the number who have to remain in hospital for long periods or permanently. Previous to this, it was regarded almost as a miracle if a patient recovered and was able to come out. With the increased tempo of modern life, many people are affected mentally one way or another, but modern treatment can cope with them and they can come back into ordinary everyday life and occupation very soon.

It is a boast in the mental hospitals of Dublin city and county that the number of their patients at the moment is about 20 per cent. of the total number treated during the year. In other words, four times that number of persons have been treated, cured and sent back to ordinary everyday life during the year, but there is a very great accommodation problem in Dublin city and county.

There was an overflow from Grangegorman Mental Hospital and it was necessary to obtain accommodation in a T.B. sanatorium to which the surplus mental patients could be moved. In fact, two T.B. sanatoria have been, if you like, commandeered for that purpose. That demonstrates the very great lack of accommodation in our existing mental hospitals. In order to cope with the demand for treatment of mental cases and accommodation for them, instead of being driven to build extra hospitals or extend the existing ones, we may be obliged to move our mental patients into the sanatoria which are falling empty as a result of the fact that T.B. is now almost a thing of the past and does not require as much accommodation as it did. The problem of providing accommodation for mental patients is a real problem in Dublin city and county.

I was interested to hear mention of juvenile mental patients being housed with adult mental patients in our hospitals. That is a very serious problem and one which should be dealt with as soon as possible. The question of handicapped children has been neglected for a long time. We have had the situation in which parents to whom a mentally handicapped child for whom they cannot secure suitable accommodation away from the home, is a hindrance or a nuisance in their efforts to rear the rest of the family. That problem is being tackled now and it is to their credit that a number of organisations got together and established institutions of their own where these mentally handicapped children could be accommodated and catered for, and treated as they are at the present time.

With regard to patients who are fit to work being paid in return for work they are capable of performing, I think that is a very good idea. I know that in Portrane quite a number of male patients are fit, well and capable of doing a man's work on the land, cultivating crops, looking after cows and pigs, and feeding and watering livestock in the farmyards. They are certainly doing a good day's work and they deserve to be paid.

Another point I should like to mention is that in these institutions one frequently finds a person who is lost to the world. He is there in the institution and has no one to take him out, or no one to go back to. It seems that he just got in as a mental case and was left there. Something ought to be done in order to steer those people back out into the world. They appear to be quite sane, but, as I say, they do not seem to have anyone to claim them out. That was the technical position—possibly it has been remedied but the impression is still there.

I welcome the section of the Bill in which there is an option in relation to superannuation. In the 1949 Mental Treatment Act, there was a clause giving the staff the option of coming under the proposed new superannuation scheme or of availing of the benefits provided by the previous Mental Treatment Act of 1909, I think. A number of people who decided at that time that the existing scheme suited them found later that the 1949 superannuation scheme gave greater advantages. They were not able to avail of those advantages because there was a time limit and when they did not opt to avail of the new scheme within the time limit, they had to remain in the scheme in which they were already included. Naturally enough, it took time for a number of them to see that they would be better off if they accepted the new scheme that was offered to them. This Bill now gives them the option of coming under the new superannuation scheme, having regard to modern conditions and in the light of their experience of the old superannuation scheme. That is a welcome inclusion in the Bill.

I agree that this is mainly a Committee Stage Bill. The question of accommodation will have to be tackled. The old buildings—although some of them have been improved and extended—are not capable of accommodating the large number if patients who have to avail of mental treatment at one time or another.

This Bill will be generally welcome particularly in respect of some items which will help towards the rehabilitation of patients in mental hospitals, for instance, the provision to give payment for work done, which will make patients feel they have a useful part to play in society. Again, I should like to extend a welcome to the provision dealing with after-care and the general rehabilitation of patients.

Probably the only real way of securing the rehabilitation of patients would be to try to do away with some of the horribly gloomy buildings in which they are locked at the moment, and the horribly gloomy clothing which they seem to be compelled to wear. They are gloomy and depressing and they create an atmosphere which I imagine is completely contrary to the atmosphere we should all like such people to exist in. Like Deputy Rooney, I should like to pay tribute to the people who have done so much for the mentally handicapped and retarded children.

I should also like to make a slight reference to the manner in which the Bill was presented to the House. The arrangement of sections and the description is inadequate. We are simply given the section of the old Act and an indication that it is an amendment. That does not indicate to the practitioner or anybody reading the Bill what each section deals with. Maybe something could be done with that at this stage.

I am afraid the Deputy has not seen this document.

I should like to acknowledge the help the Minister has given in the presentation of this new Mental Treatment Bill. All of us agree, from the speeches we have heard, that the Minister has gone out of his way in a complicated Bill of this kind to provide us with all the information possible. He has done it in three different ways—(1) in the Bill; (2) in an excellent White Paper and, more particularly, (3) in this booklet to which he has just referred and which he proposes to tidy up when the Bill is passed. It is very necessary that a book of that kind should be available to enable not alone those engaged in mental treatment to be conversant with complicated Acts of Parliament but also the general public because it has been a source of mystery to some people how people can be committed, detained in or discharged from a mental hospital as well as the functions of doctors, nurses, managers, and so on.

It is a good thing, too, that the Minister did not represent this Bill to be anything more than it is. It is not intended to be the last piece of legislation to deal with the problem of mental illness. The Minister made that clear at the beginning of his speech. He said the Bill was designed to effect desirable but not necessarily basic changes in the 1945 Act. Therefore, it would be wrong for any of us to read into the Bill more than is in it. The provisions are pretty small. They have nothing to do, really, with a genuine improvement in tackling the problem of mental illness. In effect, they are tightening up a lot of things that needed to be tightened up since the 1945 Bill was enacted.

The Minister indicated he is dependent to a very large extent on the two commissions he has established to gather information and to report to him on the problem of mental illness. I do not know whether or not he is wise in that. I do not say I am against the appointment of a commission. We have had a plague of commissions in recent years not alone by this Government but by the last Government and by the one that went before it, and so on. I expected when I set up the Commission on Workmen's Compensation that it would report in a matter of at least 12 months. Now we discover it has gone on for at least four years. I know it is very difficult to get people and to expect them to devote a good deal of their time to a commission of this type and to report within a reasonable period. I merely ask the Minister to do what he can to get the commission to collect this very necessary information and to make a report as quickly as possible.

The problem of mental illness is very urgent as was the problem of T.B. in this country some ten or 15 years ago when it can be said the disease or illness was at its peak. I wonder, therefore, whether we should not tackle the problem of mental illness in the same manner as Ministers in the course of the past 15 or 20 years tackled the problem of T.B. That problem was successfully tackled in a relatively short time. Full credit must be paid to the various Ministers for Health engaged in that work and also to the departmental officials, doctors, nurses, members of local authorities and officials of local authorities. I should like the Minister to tackle the problem of mental illness more or less in the same manner and not to be too dependent on the two commissions to which he referred today.

There are certain problems in regard to mental ill health. It is not a disease of the body but one of the mind and a disease of the mind cannot be tackled in the same manner as any other disease. There have been tremendous scientific advances in the treatment of mental illness in recent years. I should like to be assured by the Minister that this country has taken full advantage of these scientific advances in methods of treatment and in new drugs that have been introduced in other countries.

Again, in relation to the problem of T.B., in relatively recent years I think there were made available to us the most up-to-date drugs and information on the most efficient and up-to-date treatments for that disease. As far as one can see, one of the greatest problems for the Minister and for the members of local authorities is that of overcrowding. We have had that problem of overcrowding in regard to T.B. and it was successfully tackled. I am not a member of a local authority but it seems to me that accommodation for mental patients in this country has not improved in the past 100 years. If that is an exaggeration I should like someone to correct me but that is my information. Therefore, I do not believe we can afford to wait for a commission that might report back to the Minister for Health in anything, say, over nine or twelve months and certainly not two, three or five years. It is an urgent problem and must be tackled. It appears that the problem of overcrowding and the problem of acquiring additional accommodation are two of the biggest headaches facing the Minister and the local authorities.

I am sure every Deputy freely admits that in one respect there is not the same problem with regard to mental illness as there used to be. I refer to the fear not alone of mental illness occurring to people themselves but of the fear and what can be described as the shame of families and relatives of the stigma of mental illness.

Ministers for Health had that problem with regard to T.B. People mentioned T.B. in a whisper. They called it by various names to avoid mentioning the words "tuberculosis" or "consumption". Gradually, through education by the Department of Health and local authorities and through the efforts of good social workers, the fear of a stigma was removed entirely. People whose families were ashamed to mention the words "consumption" or "tuberculosis" twenty or twenty-five years ago now approach the problem of mental illness in the same way. If, some relatively few years ago, ten or fifteen years ago, one had occasion to go to a mental hospital or clinic to be treated for mental illness it was mentioned in a whisper because the first thing that was said was that the person was mad, "looney", "bats", crazy—and that was the end of it. Now people have come to recognise —again through our health organisations—that mental illness is just another disease that can be cured. Again, let me put emphasis on "they can be cured", because the medical men of this country, with the assistance of the Department and the local authorities, have proved how successful they can be in the cure of mental illness.

I do not think there is any need for me to stress the necessity of expanding accommodation. In the beginning of this century those who were patients in mental hospitals or lunatic asylums as they were then called were people who, though mentally ill, were put into those asylums because they were dangerous, were an inconvenience to their families or could not fend for themselves. Now we have a new situation—a desirable situation—where people who are mentally ill are becoming voluntary patients or who are sent to those hospitals in order to be cured. In addition to all those people who were patients in the hospital in the past 30 to 50 years we have these additional people who volunteer for treatment in the mental hospitals. That means that there must be and should be more accommodation for mental patients in this country.

The Minister referred to the possibility of a domiciliary medical and nursing service. I think he will have the support of the House in that connection. He may not have referred to the matter specifically. I think he should consider strongly the idea even now of setting up such a service. There are people who are reluctant to go to mental hospitals. They are not 100 per cent. mentally ill but are border-line cases. They have a phobia, naturally enough, about going to a mental hospital because they believe that as soon as they go there they are doomed as far as mental illness is concerned. Therefore, if there could be a scheme or a service whereby these people would be treated in clinics or in their own homes it would be desirable for themselves. It would also tend to relieve the strain on some of that much-needed accommodation in the mental hospitals. There could also be treatment in different centres in the functional area of the local authority whether it is the county council or otherwise.

The Minister and the local authority also have a big responsibility in regard to this matter. We should try to encourage the idea of social workers in this particular branch of medicine. These social workers who are equipped and experienced to deal with the public might, if given a certain amount of inexpensive training, do very valuable work not alone in the treatment of these people but, more important still, in their rehabilitation.

Much emphasis was placed in recent years on the rehabilitation of people who had tuberculosis. How much more difficult is it to rehabilitate people who have suffered from some mental illness? Therefore, if the Minister can do anything to encourage that type of worker, whether he be voluntary or employed by local authority, he would be making an advance as far as certain of these patients are concerned.

There is one other small thing in respect of this Bill that I should like to say. The Bill retains the word "detention". The word "detention" smacks too much of prison. It smacks too much of confinements. I do not know what other word the Minister could substitute but with his ingenuity and the ingenuity of his officials there is the possibility that some other word could be substituted or some other phrase employed to get rid of this word "detention". Being detained in any place means to most folk that they are under arrest or confined in some prison or other place of detention

I should also like the Minister to expand his observations further on the rôle the Garda should play in the escorting of patients to a mental hospital. We know there is power in the Bill to provide escorts. We know that in the Bill there is provision for the employment, so to speak, of a member of the Garda Síochána. I think the Minister should try to get local authorities and the officials of these hospitals to use the Garda Síochána to the minimum. I am not being critical of the personnel of the Garda Síochánna. I am merely being critical of the position they occupy. I am especially critical of the fact that they wear a uniform and of the fact that, when a person is seen in the company of a uniformed member of the Garda Síochána, there is associated with it the idea of arrest or some misdemeanour.

That may happen in only one case in a thousand or one in a hundred but there is that feeling. Especially is that feeling strong in the case of the patient whose confused and befuddled mind becomes more confused and befuddled and much more suspicious when he or she sees a member of the Garda arrive in full uniform to take him or her to a mental hospital. I would suggest that, where there is necessity to have the services of a member of the Garda as an escort, a direction should be given to the effect that the member of the Garda should not appear in uniform but in plain clothes. I do not know whether that could be arranged with the Commissioner of the Garda.

The rest of the Bill is contained in the Schedule. Might I join with the Minister—I assume that his plea would be accepted by the Chair—that special facilities would be given to the House in dealing with the Schedule on Committee Stage? We had this in some other Bill. I think it was one of the Referendum Bills. I think it should be made abundantly clear or otherwise by the Chair that similar treatment will be meted out in respect of this Schedule and that Deputies will have the opportunity of discussing the different sections of the Bill one by one and that they will be entitled to vote on these sections singly. The Minister submitted to the Chair that the provisions in regard to superannuation were embodied in a Schedule to facilitate him and the House. In the ordinary course of events, these provisions would be in the form of ordinary sections of the Bill. Therefore, I would join with the Minister in asking the Chair to allow the different sections of the Schedule in this instance to be treated as sections for the purpose of discussion and a vote if necessary.

As far as the Schedule is concerned, I am not going to go into any detail whatsoever on these sections on this Stage. They are somewhat complicated and one needs to refer back in some cases to the 1909 Act and in other cases to the Act of 1945. I would say—and I think I speak on behalf of some of the workers engaged in mental nursing—that these workers are not completely satisfied with the various provisions in the Schedule. If I understand it rightly, they may be under a misapprehension about certain sections of it. Therefore, we propose on the Committee Stage to table certain amendments and discuss certain of the sections. If the Minister can reassure these workers, through the House, that will satisfy us.

There is the view that this Schedule means that there will be a worsening of the conditions, not so much of those at present employed in mental nursing but of those who will be recruited after the passage of this Bill. Many members of the House will agree that there should be a special position given to mental nurses over and above—and I might say I used be one myself—local government officials. There are special superannuation provisions for members of the Garda Síochána. I think all will agree that the life of a mental nurse is a rigorous life, a strenuous life, a life which has many complications and hardships and which involves a difficult task. Therefore, a good case could be made and the Minister could well consider any proposals that these people might make, through us, on Committee Stage.

I do not know whether it is a good idea, or should I go further and say it is a wrong idea, that these mental nurses, for the purposes of superannuation, should be put under the jurisdiction of the Minister for Local Government, or be his responsibility. I suppose in respect of local government service generally, whether one works in the department for roads or health or general purposes, that for the purpose of superannuation, they are the responsibility of the Minister for Local Government, but the problem is not quite the same as regards health and especially is it not the same as regards mental nurses.

There is another interesting point which needs to be cleared up. This Schedule says that for the purpose of superannuation, the Minister shall be the Minister for Local Government, but there is another section which says that an appeal can be made to the Minister and it is not quite clear to me which Minister is meant. I may have missed something in the Bill but superannuation is determined by the Minister for Local Government and one of the sections in the Schedule says that an aggrieved person may appeal to the Minister. That point can be cleared up on the Committee Stage but as far as I can see the Minister is not specified. I assume, therefore, that while superannuation is the responsibility of the Minister for Local Government, the appeal may lie with the Minister for Health.

There are many points that can be raised with regard to superannuation but, as I say, they are points for Committee Stage. There are grievances with regard to the period after which a mental nurse can retire. These are matters which will be raised on Committee and I mention them now merely to stake my claim to submit amendments. There is also dissatisfaction with regard to the method in which superannuation is computed. As I understand it, at present, superannuation is assessed in accordance with the salary paid over the past three years. The proposal now is to assess it on the last years of service. There is also a submission which will be made on Committee Stage that unestablished service should be reckoned because there are peculiar circumstances in mental nursing where it is necessary to have unestablished service.

I should like to ask the Minister to expand a little more on the idea of patients working. I do not object, and I do not think anybody would object, to the idea of an effort being made to have these people who suffer from mental illness rehabilitated, or to get them back into the ordinary run of their lives and to use their heads and hands again. However, there are dangers in that as well. The tradesmen in these mental hospitals also have a life to live. They follow a trade. They expect to get employment and security of employment and there should be some safeguards against the possibility of any of these patients engaging in tradesmen's work. I know it is not the Minister's desire that these should become plasterers, carpenters or masons, or what have you, but it could be that an R.M.S. would have these people working and displacing a carpenter, plasterer or a mason, or any such tradesmen. As I say, I do not object to an effort being made to have these people rehabilitated but I do not believe that work which is appropriate to a tradesman should be given to somebody who has no idea of the trade but who, for the sake of saving money for the institution, would be given these jobs.

I must confess that since I said that, I have looked again at the Minister's excellent explanatory memorandum which says that the provisions in regard to patients are contained in Sections 2 to 39 and Section 42. The principal provisions include paragraph (b) which reads:

To enable the Minister to authorise, by regulations, the making of payments by mental hospital authorities to patients for work done (Section 3).

I trust that the Minister when he is making these regulations will safeguard the position which I have just described.

Again, in Sections 2 to 39, I see that the Minister proposes to dispense with the requirements regarding the submission to the Minister, as a routine procedure, of copies of documents relating to the reception, departure, removal, escape and death of patients. I assume that up to now, and at present, in any of these cases the Minister would get a report from the R.M.S. Nobody minds dispensing with a requirement regarding the submission to the Minister of a copy of a document relating to the reception of a patient, or the departure of a patient, or to the removal of a patient, but I wonder is the Minister wise in dispensing with that provision which requires the R.M.S. to give him general information and documents with regard to the escape or death of a patient—perhaps not an ordinary death of a patient, but deaths of patients in hospitals in circumstances which in some cases necessitate inquiries.

Does the Minister not believe that in the case of an escape or death of a patient in certain circumstances, he should as heretofore have submitted to him documents and information in connection with it? Otherwise, we would have members of the House tabling questions bringing to the Minister's notice the fact that some person died in a mental hospital in unusual circumstances and the Minister telling the House that he knew nothing about it but would inquire from the local authority. In these two connections, the Minister should continue the present procedure and ask the R.M.S. to send on these documents.

Section 162, subsection (2), quoted on page 4 of the Explanatory Memorandum, provides:—

An application for a recommendation for reception may be made——

(a) by the husband or wife or a relative of the person to whom the application relates.

If my memory serves me correctly— I am not sure about this and that is why I am raising it—there is reference in the booklet that the Minister proposes to produce to a definition of "relative". I must confess that I could not find it.

Up to the second cousin. Roughly, take it that way.

That is the definition?

That is the way it works out.

Does the Minister think it wise to give that power, so to speak, to a second cousin?

After all, it is only an application that he is making.

He starts the ball rolling. I do not know whether the Minister is wise in that or not. However, it is not a big point. I would again say how grateful we were to the Minister for providing us with such information as he has in the explanatory memorandum, in the booklet and in the Bill.

First of all, I wish to endorse what Deputy Corish has said, that too much must not be made out of this Bill. It is a Bill to improve the present administrative machinery and at the same time to make certain changes in the position in relation to superannuation of the personnel of the mental health services. It does not purport to do more than that and it is not necessary that we should amend the existing law to enable us to do more than that. The mental health services will be continued to be improved so far as our resources permit, our judgment dictates and according to our ability to absorb the advances which have been made in psychiatric medicine.

I should not like the House to take too literally what my predecessor said, suggesting that there had not been any very marked advance in the mental health services for a great number of years. It is true that we have not had any spectacular new building programme. We have not had the money to enable us to carry one out, even if we were satisfied that the problem of overcrowding in our mental hospitals could be solved or should be solved by providing additional buildings, rather than by adopting the measures which we have already initiated here in our own country and which are more widely favoured elsewhere, of trying to get people out of mental hospitals and to keep them out of mental hospitals.

It is quite true that the number of patients in our mental hospitals is probably as large as it was some years ago. But there has been this remarkable change, that there is a very greatly increased turnover in the number of patients. The number of admissions has gone up and the number of discharges has gone up. There has been a great change also in the status of the patients who are going into our mental hospitals. There has been an increase of almost 50 per cent. in the number of those who go in there as temporary patients, patients with the hope that, within six months or perhaps a little longer, they will come out cured. There has been also a very substantial increase within a comparatively short space of time, in the number of persons who are attending out-patients' clinics. That number has increased very remarkably and in 1959 the number of attendances was something over 14,000. In addition to all this, we have now reached the stage that we shall be opening shortly, in the Monaghan-Cavan Mental Hospital District, a day hospital where patients can come for treatment during the day and return to their homes in the evening.

In addition, we are, of course, endeavouring to improve the standard of our mental health nurses. Wherever it is possible for us to retrieve—and I use the word advisedly —sanatoria which are not fully occupied—very often, we have to overcome stubborn opposition in order to enable us to do that—we are diverting these buildings for the purposes of relieving overcrowding in mental hospitals or, in some cases, as in the case of Monaghan again, converting them into modern admission units.

It is not true to say that there has been stagnation in regard to our mental health services. On the contrary— and I am not claiming any particular credit for it; it has been the desire of us all here since 1945, when my then Parliamentary Secretary, Dr. Ward, piloted the Medical Treatment Bill though the House—we passed that Bill as the foundation which was necessary in order to enable us to ensure that the appropriate authorities throughout the country would be enabled to provide the type of services which we hoped to build upon it.

A lot of things happened. The programme did not work out as we hoped it would but, let me emphasise again, there has been no stagnation. Within the limits of our resources we have progressed I think reasonably well, in step with those who have been working elsewhere on this problem.

But, there is this thing about it—and it is my great reason for setting up not only the commission on the mentally handicapped, but also the commission on the treatment of mental illness, which I propose to set up and in respect of which I have already made approaches to secure the requisite personnel—that we have not had an exhaustive investigation of what should be done, and what can be done in that field in this country in the light of modern knowledge. In fact, I doubt if we have had in the last century any serious investigation of the problem at all. There is a tendency for traditional procedures to become inbred. And I should like that outside minds should combine with such professional ability as we may have at our disposal to have a fresh look at what we have been doing here over the years and what we are now trying to do. The fact that we are asking these new minds to come in does not mean at all, as was suggested by my predecessor, Deputy Thomas O'Higgins, and to some extent reechoed by the Leader of the Labour Party, that we are going to stand still. We are going to carry out the programme which we have mapped out, as I said, to the extent that our resources will permit. At the same time, we intend to bring over people to have a look at what we are doing and to give us the benefit of their knowledge and experience. There will be, I am sure, an exchange of views between ourselves and these others which will be advantageous not only to us and to them but to the general field of psychiatric medicine as a whole.

That is what we are trying to do and I do not want this Bill to be taken as any more than as I have described it. It is a machinery Bill which enables us to deal in a simple way with many of the minor defects in the 1945 Act. It will enable people if they require the services of a psychiatrist or if they require treatment for mental illness, to go and secure that treatment with the least possible embarrassment to themselves. And it will also ensure that those who have benefited by the treatment and can be discharged with safety to themselves and to the community will also find it easier to secure a discharge. Then there are the other proposals to give to the new entrants into the staff of the mental health services such advantages as they might secure from the Local Government Superannuation Code of 1956.

Those are the main purposes of the Bill. I shall study what has been said here by the various speakers; I shall, of course, consider any amendments that any Deputy may wish to put down and will be prepared to debate them in a reasonable way and to take counsel with them. However, it must be remembered that I cannot impose any very great additional burden upon the health authorities or upon the Exchequer. We must not expect that if the personnel of the health services are going to secure all of the advantages of the Superannuation Act of 1956, a great deal more will be super-added thereto. I shall be reasonable, I hope, but I have to remember that in the end the ratepayers as well as the taxpayers will have to bear some part of the burden and I shall have to be guided in some of these matters by the opinion of my colleague, the Minister for Local Government.

The Minister made a very interesting statement that he was very anxious to have the least inconvenience caused to relatives having patients submitted to a mental home. I have long experience on a mental hospital committee and have come across some cases, not really mentally defective but nervous cases who would not be patients fit for Grangegorman or Portrane. Their parents would be in the middle income group and it would involve great hardship to send them to the home in Lucan or elsewhere because no allowance is made towards the weekly cost. This involves great hardship for these people. I would ask the Minister to consider such cases.

That can be done administratively under the regulations made under the Health Act.

Question put and agreed to.
Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, 22nd February, 1961.
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