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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 27 Nov 1963

Vol. 206 No. 2

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Turkey Exports.

30.

asked the Minister for Agriculture if, in view of the statement made by the Minister for Industry and Commerce on 1st October 1963 that the main aim should be selling quality goods which are not mass produced in this country, and of the Taoiseach's statement of 3rd October 1963, that the emphasis must be on exports rather than on home sales, he will take action as soon as possible to increase exports of Irish turkeys by exploring further and fully how his Department and licensed turkey exporters can collaborate in helping British poultry salesmen to repopularise to the utmost Irish turkeys with British retailers and housewives; and if he will outline what he has done in this regard for the disposal of Irish turkeys in Britain this year.

31.

asked the Minister for Agriculture whether any talks have been held between his Department and British wholesale poulterers regarding the surplus of turkeys exported from this country; whether those poulterers have expressed dissatisfaction with the present marketing of such turkeys; if he will state their views in the matter; and what action he has taken, or proposes to take, as a result.

32.

asked the Minister for Agriculture whether, from the point of view of suitability for the British market, the average Irish turkey reared by traditional methods and killed at twenty-six weeks of age is in any respects superior to the average mass-produced English turkey reared by intensive methods and killed at sixteen weeks of age; and, if so, in what respects the Irish bird is superior.

33.

asked the Minister for Agriculture if he is aware that some well-known licensed turkey exporters give their British salesmen reliable forecasts of the number of turkeys they will export and the period in which they will ship them; and if he will examine the methods employed by these exporters to enable him to give a substantially reliable forecast.

34.

asked the Minister for Agriculture the average cost of production per pound live weight of turkeys at twenty-six weeks of age (a) produced and reared by traditional methods in the Republic in flocks ranging from twenty to thirty birds, and (b) mass produced in Britain and reared in flocks varying from one to two thousand birds.

35.

asked the Minister for Agriculture if he is satisfied in all respects with the present methods of marketing this country's exportable surplus of turkeys and, if not, in what respects he is not fully satisfied.

With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 30 to 35 together.

Our turkey production and exports have been declining in recent years as a result of the very great expansion of turkey production in Britain on mass production lines as compared with the traditional system of farm production here and elsewhere. While very many people regard the flavour of fresh turkeys reared on free range as superior to that of oven-ready birds reared and fattened under the modern intensive system, the matter of flavour is, of course, conditioned by the development of tastes and habits generally and it is a fact that oven-ready turkeys and poultry are advancing in popularity on the principal markets.

Steps have been taken in recent years to help in maintaining the market for our exports of turkeys in the face of the growing competition from British birds, e.g. improvements in quality of Irish turkey stocks and in the standard of marketing dressed turkeys and participation in promotion of demand for Irish turkeys through advertising media, exhibitions and displays.

In view of the smaller numbers, this year's promotional work is on a more limited basis. As much advance information as possible regarding the expected level of Irish turkey supplies is made available to British wholesalers each year both through the contacts which the exporters here maintain with their British agents and through discussions on the turkey market which officers of my Department have each year with representatives of the British National Federation of Wholesale Poultry Merchants.

Such a discussion was held last month at which the British wholesalers indicated that it would, of course, facilitate them if they could get fairly accurate advance information as to the numbers of turkeys which their Irish suppliers would be able to send them and the probable timing. At a recent meeting which my Department arranged with the principal turkey exporters, it was the opinion of the exporters' representatives that it would be impracticable for exporters to give reliable advance estimates of the quantity which they could secure individually on the open market and which would be available for export. I am not aware that any turkey exporters do provide their British salesmen with such firm forecasts.

The conditions under which small flocks of turkeys are produced here can vary so much that there is no generally accepted comprehensive figure of average production costs. In the case of a few sample lots supervised by poultry advisory officers during the past couple of years for flocks of about 30 to 50 birds marketed at 26 weeks I have seen average cost figures varying from 1/8½d. to 2/3d. per lb. liveweight. Some British costings I have seen have indicated an average cost of 1/9¾d. in 1960 and 2/- in 1961, covering turkeys marketed at 16 and 24 weeks but I cannot say how representative these figures are.

As regards the turkey industry generally and what can be done to increase exports, I asked the representative Poultry Production Council appointed by me in 1960 to examine the position. In their report, which has been published, they expressed little hope in existing circumstances of increasing exports of fresh turkeys or even maintaining their present level.

Is the Minister aware that of 20 to 25 active turkey exporters in this country, at least six are able to furnish British salesmen with information six weeks before the main Christmas demand begins, that each of those six exporters is able to state the amount of turkeys he can ship for consumption in Britain and that this information has been extremely helpful to the British salesmen? Could the Minister not get in touch with the remainder of the Irish turkey exporters so that this information could be supplied by them as well? Might I also ask if the Minister has information in his Department to the effect that the 26-week old Irish turkey is far superior to the British turkey and that the general demand in Britain is for Irish birds? In view of the general demand in Britain for Irish birds in preference to their own, surely there is need for the overhaul of the marketing system in regard to turkeys and surely there must be something concrete the Minister can do?

I am not aware, as I have said, that any turkey exporter can provide British salesmen with such firm forecasts. I might read a quotation from the report which I received and published in February last year:

Elaborate and costly marketing efforts and stringent requirements in regard to standards of export premises, grading, packing and transport will count for little against the fundamental disadvantages of our pattern of production. The fact is, however, that production on this pattern represents the greater part of the turkey industry as it exists in this country today, and it is nothing less than wishful thinking to suppose that it would be sufficient to enable our producers and marketing agencies to compete with the skilfully-managed, highly-organised, large-scale production groups in Britain. There will, of course, continue to be scope for small-scale production of turkeys by the traditional methods to cater for the demand of the home trade and, it is hoped, for the export of fresh birds but in our opinion the only assured means in present circumstances of increasing exports of fresh birds or even maintaining their present level would be a subsidy from public funds on the finished birds. We have given consideration to the desirability of such a subsidy but we do not recommend it.

When one thinks further, that in 1951 the production of turkeys in Britain was something in excess of 700,000 and there is an estimated production this year of between 7.5 million and 9 million and when one also remembers that one of these units in Britain, it is expected, will produce one million turkeys next year—which will be much greater than the entire production of this country north and south—and six further units will produce from 250,000 to 500,000 it is not difficult to see the problem with which traditional methods of production have to contend.

Surely the Minister is not going to throw up his hands in despair? Something must be done to put the better-flavoured and superior Irish turkeys on the market in Britain. Any of the salesmen in Britain will give the Minister ample information, if he has not got it, that there is a general demand for Irish turkeys because of their superior flavour. When the demand is there, why not get the turkeys sent there?

Those who made this recommendation to me were very experienced in this business and I am quite sure that in the course of their general examination of the problem they went into every conceivable detail. Notwithstanding that and all the knowledge they undoubtedly possess they made that firm comment. I do not think it is throwing up your hands at something when you are confronted with a problem for which there seems to be no solution other than the production of turkeys on a basis similar to that which the British are now using.

If we produce turkeys similar to the British we shall not have the special flavour we have on our turkeys and the Minister knows that.

I am conceding that, but look at all the other products that were not so well received. For example, take pasteurised milk. It is only a matter of a few years ago that people in the smaller towns—and many large towns—did not like the idea of taking pasteurised milk and would much prefer the milk taken straight from the cow. That is all gone now. I do not think there is any way in which we can overcome this problem. It is not throwing up one's hands at a problem when you are forced to face the naked realities.

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