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Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 28 Mar 1968

Vol. 233 No. 10

Committee on Finance. - Vote 48—Health.

I move:

That a supplementary sum not

exceeding £1,240,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of March, 1968, for the Salaries and Expenses of the Office of the Minister for Health (including Oifig an Árd-Chláraitheora), and certain Services administered by that Office, including Grants to Local Authorities, miscellaneous Grants and a Grant-in-Aid.

The original Vote provision for the current year was £21,757,000. Requirements are now estimated at £22,997,000, leaving an additional sum of £1,240,000 to be made available. The need for supplementary provision arises entirely on Subhead G—Grants to Health Authorities, and is for the purpose of supplementing by £625,000 the provision for balances of grants payable to health authorities in respect of the year 1966-67, and to meet a deficiency, also estimated at £625,000, in the provision for 1967-68 grants. The total supplementary requirements of £1,250,000 are offset by a saving of £10,000 under Subhead P—in which provision is made for the fluoridation of public water supplies.

As Deputies are aware, the grants payable to Health Authorities are directly related to their expenditure. Final accounts of health authorities furnished to my Department for 1966-67 show an increase of £625,000 over the figure on which the original provision was based. In order to comply with the special undertaking to relieve the rates of all increases in expenditure for 1966-67, over that for the previous year, the full amount of £625,000 must be borne on the Vote.

The original estimate of Vote requirements in respect of the year 1967-68 was based on an estimated total expenditure by Health Authorities of £36,500,000. The latest estimate is £37,700,000—an increase of £1,200,000. I have decided that the same level of Exchequer recoupment should apply to additional expenditure arising in 1967-68 as had been adopted in calculating the grants provided for in the original Estimate. To do this a sum of £625,000 is required.

The increased expenditure in 1966-67 arises, to the extent of about £300,000, on drugs and medicines supplied at dispensaries and used in hospitals. This represents an increase of the order of 14 per cent of the cost of drugs and medicines as previously estimated. The balance of the increase can be accounted for under a number of headings. These are mainly the institutional costs such as salaries, food, heat and light.

The same factors are to a large degree responsible for the estimated increase of £1,200,000 in the expenditure of health authorities for the year 1967-68. Drugs and medicines account for over £400,000 of the excess cost, which represents 18 per cent of the original figure. Here, I might interpolate a comment on the rising cost of drugs. The increased usage of drugs is a feature of modern medicine and since drug therapy and allied preventive medicine practices undoubtedly help to keep people out of hospital, increase the turn-over of the occupancy of hospital beds, and make possible a more rapid return of people to their employment, it is a development which we must accept and, indeed, welcome.

We must, therefore, temper any observations on increased costs in this area of the health services with a realisation of these considerations. That is not to say that I am unconcerned at rising expenditure which, in the years, with which we are dealing, has outstripped what had been regarded as generous estimates. I am keeping and will keep a close eye on developments.

Higher expenditure on remuneration requires an additional provision of £200,000—arising because of shorter working hours and increased remuneration. Increased allowances payable to disabled persons require a further £250,000.

The items which I have mentioned account for £850,000 of the £1,200,000 increase, and are the most significant factors involved. It will be appreciated that in a service of such a wide scope relatively small increases in a large number of headings can add up to a considerable total. This accounts for the further £350,000.

I will, of course, be reporting to the House in greater detail on the health services when the Estimate of my Department for the coming year is being considered.

There is a certain unreality about the request of the Minister for Health to be paid another £1¼ million in respect of the health services. What is unreal about it is that the request has been made without any reference at all to the complete failure on the Government's part to honour the proposal which they made in a White Paper published more than two years ago. The proposal is contained in paragraph 116, page 59, of the White Paper on Health Services, published in January, 1966. It contained the following words:

The Government, having studied this issue, are satisfied that the local rates are not a form of taxation suitable for collecting additional money on this scale. They propose, therefore, that the cost of further extensions of the services should not be met in any proportion by the local rates.

Many of the services for which we have been asked in this Supplementary Estimate to pay, many of the services for which ratepayers are being called on to pay, are services which are set out on page 59 of the White Paper as being improvements and extensions in the health services.

The Government have failed completely to honour their proposal and this immediately brings into question the work of all undertakings or statements by the Government. It is most undesirable that in a matter affecting the health and wellbeing of our people the Government should have in such a disreputable manner welched to the extent that they have on the very specific undertakings so clearly and so frequently repeated.

This has brought about a situation in which ratepayers and taxpayers, 70 per cent of whom are denied all benefit under the health services unless they are so ill as to be in hospital, are being called on to pay the better part of £6 million—or will be so called on in the coming year—over and above the services which existed at the time the Government published their now in-famous White Paper. It has brought about that grossly unfair situation and other undesirable effects, one of which is that we now have some regions in the country up to 25 per cent of the dispensary doctors not being given permanent appointments because the Government are dithering on all health matters and are bringing about a situation in which some of the best medical brains and skills in the country are not looking to the public health services for employment because of the uncertainty that exists.

In Dublin Health Authority area, which caters for more than 25 per cent of our people, we now have a situation in which, out of a total complement of 83 dispensary doctors, 26 are temporary. Of that 26, 13 are occupants of posts which previously were permanent and the other 13 are occupants of posts which have been established since May, 1965, to meet the growing population and the increasing demands on our health services.

On 20th May, 1965, the Minister for Health in the present Government issued to all local authorities a circular letter saying that because it had been decided to introduce a choice of doctor into the general medical services, no further permanent appointments should be made. In that circular letter the Minister stated that it would be possible to arrive at decisions "within the next few months". There is a declaration of the Government that they would arrive at decisions in relation to the health services, in particular to the dispensary service and its staffing, within a few months of May, 1965, yet here we are three years later and the Government have not yet come to the decisions which three years ago they said they were about to make.

This is the kind of dithering incompetence and breach of undertakings which compelled the Minister to come once again to the Dáil to look for more money to bolster up health services which are as unfair as they are unsatisfactory and which are grinding slowly but surely to a halt. Were it not for the devotion to duty of the people who are administering the health services, were it not for their dedication and their contributions which go beyond the call of duty, our health services would collapse altogether.

In October, 1966, the present administration were obliged to recognise to some extent the harm which they were doing to the health services by the delays which were occurring. They therefore allowed health authorities to appoint dispensary doctors on a quasi-permanent basis without any rights to pension, without any rights to the other emoluments which go with permanent appointments. This is another indication of the injustices which are being built into the existing health services. There are several parts of the country where men are being appointed to posts without having the privilege of having such service as they may now give considered in future for pension purposes.

This is occurring even in areas where it is patently clear that dispensary doctors on a permanent basis will have to be employed in the future as they have been in the past, because if they are not so employed, there will be no medical attention available in those areas. The situation in urban areas is of course different from that in rural areas. We in Fine Gael have always accepted that. There is no justification for continuing any longer the inefficiency and injustices which are occurring under the present system because the Government have failed over a period of three years to give any attention to the obligation which lay upon them to honour undertakings which they solemnly, and presumably carefully, entered into.

There is no doubt that we are meeting a tremendous upsurge in the cost of providing drugs and medicines. This, as the Minister pointed out, is something which must be carefully watched but to some extent it could be beneficial if it results in keeping people out of institutions. That is the thing which we must aim at in this country, to reduce the institutional element in health costs, because that is the most costly end of it. It is an extraordinary thing that we in this country are the most hospitalised people in the world. We have more people per head of the population in hospitals than any other country in the world. The reason for that is primarily our failure to develop proper health services outside of hospitals.

I do not propose to enter into a policy matter but I feel it is important that we should reflect on that because that in itself is one of the most significant factors in the very heavy extra bill which we have for health services before us today. The increase represents some six per cent over what was estimated last year. This is due to a large extent to increased costs at all levels, as the Minister's introductory statement points out, but if these increased costs have to be borne by the national Exchequer, they have to be borne to an almost similar extent by local authorities. The contribution which the State is making to health costs at the moment is about 55 per cent of the total cost and the local authorities are left to find the other 45 per cent. However, this is not a true picture. It is important at this moment to realise what the true picture is.

When we quote these figures, we refer only to distinctly medical services and we are not taking into consideration the tremendous contribution which several local authorities are making to new medical services which to date do not qualify for a grant from the Exchequer. Dublin Health Authority raised this matter recently with the Minister for Health, who, I think, was not unsympathetic to the argument that if health authorities are now paying, as they are, considerable amounts of money to provide a meals-on-wheels service for old folk, to provide domiciliary nursing services and other schemes to keep people out of institutions, they ought to receive at least half of the cost of those schemes from the national Exchequer. I do not think it is sufficient answer to say to health authorities that this is not a matter for the Minister for Health, that it is a matter for the Department of Social Welfare. These things should not at all be considered as in the nature of public assistance.

The Minister knows well that the only reason these schemes are being financed out of public assistance at the moment is that if they were not financed from that source, there is no other source available within existing legislation to finance these schemes. We thank God that these schemes are in operation and we thank also the wonderful lay and religious people who are making these schemes possible, but having expressed that thanks, we must say that if they were not in operation, the health bill would be many times greater than it is and the Minister's Supplementary Estimate today would be for over £2 million and not the £1¼ million he is seeking. I would therefore like to hear from the Minister whether he has been able to make any progress with his colleague, the Minister for Finance, or his colleagues in the Government, with a view to having these quite clearly medical services paid for by the State.

I think it is also safe to mention in relation to the increased cost of drugs and medicines that while it reflects undoubtedly new practices in modern medicines and drug therapy, it also reflects a considerable amount of questionable commercial activity by the drug manufacturers who carry out the most intensive advertising campaigns involving the giving of free samples to members of the medical profession and the pushing of drugs and medicines and preparations, some of which are of highly questionable quality. I know that at the moment there is a committee considering the establishment of some formulary which would be accepted so as to avoid the unnecessary prescribing of highly-priced modern preparations. I hope that the Minister will be able to assure us that some really worthwhile progress will be made in this field in the very near future so as to remove from this very important part of medical skills this undesirable commercial pressure.

We do not begrudge the addition of £200,000 in the Estimate in respect of remuneration because we appreciate that a considerable amount of this is due to shorter working hours, particularly for nurses. Indeed we must be concerned with the fact that many people in our hospital service who are entitled to shorter hours are obliged, because of inadequate staff, to work overtime, sometimes with danger to their own health and welfare and indeed the welfare of patients. We hope the Minister will take all steps necessary to ensure that shorter working hours which have been given to various grades will in fact be possible of achievement. This can only be done if we increase our nursing complement.

In that regard I would ask the Minister seriously to consider providing for married nurses who want to come back into the service pay scales equivalent to what they would get if they had not married at all. We are entering into an age in which we must recognise the principle of equal pay for equal work, in which men and women must be paid equally, and in which married and unmarried women must be equally paid. It is invidious to push a system under which a highly skilled and experienced nurse with several qualifications is obliged to work at the rate paid to a young nurse just qualified merely because she is married.

This, as the Minister knows, in the Dublin region has led to a situation in which some of the Dublin hospitals, particularly local authority hospitals which are curtailed in what they can pay by ministerial direction, are unable to get a sufficient complement of nurses. One hospital, Cherry Orchard, has a whole unit consisting of 28 beds closed down for no reason other than lack of nursing staff. This could lead to a very serious situation. Nobody would be more embarrassed by that matter, if any crisis did arise, than the Minister. I would urge on him to relax the rules. They have been relaxed in the educational sphere where it became necessary to provide teachers. The important consideration must be the provision of adequately trained staff with proper wages. I would, therefore, urge the Minister to see to it that married nurses who want to come back into the service will be paid at the appropriate rate. We appreciate that the Minister is concerned to maintain fair rates and reasonable opportunities for unmarried nurses and that they cannot be lightly overlooked but at the same time the needs of our hospitals and the attention of the sick people must take precedence over any other consideration.

There are many other matters on which I could dwell but this is a Supplementary Estimate and I think the need for this Estimate has been out-lined by me at the outset. It is primarily the Government's duty to provide proper health services. I earnestly hope we will not have much longer to wait. We are not comforted by the assurance the Minister gave earlier this year to the Dublin Health Authority when he said he was carrying out a reappraisal of the health services. We would have thought that that should have been done long ago. Goodness knows we had a select committee sitting on the health services in this House for six years and it is almost three years now since the Government took the decision to amend the present health services. It is not good enough to receive an assurance at the end of those nine years that there is now to be a reappraisal of the health services. Surely that should have been done long ago. Let us hope that this is the last year that Dáil Éireann will be asked to make good the default of the Government which has led to this continuing burden on taxpayers and ratepayers, most of whom are as I say deprived of all benefit under the existing health services.

We are compelled, because of the fact that this is a Supplementary Estimate, to direct our attention mainly to the items for which the extra money is being provided and I do not propose to speak at any length on this. I cannot help but agree with Deputy Ryan that the country is awaiting the implementation of the White Paper that was issued by the Minister for Health in 1966. I want to suggest to the Minister that the time is long overdue when we should decide whether the White Paper will be implemented or whether we are going to struggle along as we are.

Until our health services are put on a contributory basis a proper service will not emerge and we will have this continuing attempt to provide the necessary medical services with inadequate finance. It must be true that because of the wage increases negotiated by the trade unions over the past two or three years many people who prior to that were in receipt of medical cards have now lost that benefit. It is true that different health authorities have different scales but you can take at an average that the ninth round of wage increases practically deprived 25 per cent, if not 30 per cent, of the people in receipt of medical cards of benefits. Not only that but when a wage increase is granted the wage-earner is taxed on it, his differential rent is increased and then his medical card is taken away. Administrators of health authorities take no regard of the fact that the increase while apparently £1 may in reality be less than that because of the increases in various taxes which reduce this sum.

There is one group for which I have always pleaded in discussing health matters and that is the nursing profession. I believe they are regarded as the Cinderella of the medical profession. Their wages are inadequate, their quarters, if they are sleeping in, are usually inadequate and certainly in many local authorities the question of overtime payment to a nurse is not considered. If they are sent out on ambulance duty towards the end of their time on duty and have to spend two or three hours extra duty in that day, they are simply told that when slackness is there during the following week they will be able to take that time off. That is not a proper system. If a person has to work extra hours of duty that person should be paid for it and not be given time off at the convenience of the matron or someone else in charge of the hospital.

I believe that if overtime was paid we would not have the system which appears to be prevalent in many hospitals of sending a nurse with an ambulance call a half hour before she is due to go off duty when it is known that the call will take a period of two to three hours. I appeal to the Minister to see to it that a system of overtime payment is introduced instead of time off being allowed to nurses for the extra hours they are asked to work over and above the time allocated. I want to say on behalf of the Labour Party that we have no objection to this money being provided. All we regret, as I said at the start, is that we do not know the future of the health services. When will the White Paper be implemented or will it be implemented at all?

We on this side of the House, as Deputy Ryan has stated, are in favour of voting this money but, as Deputy Kyne said, the House and the country are entitled to know where we are going at present and when we intend to implement the promises made over the past few years as regards our health services. Our health services need overhauling. They need it immediately. That fact is recognised by the present Minister for Health and was certainly recognised by the late Deputy O'Malley when he was Minister for Health. He introduced a White Paper some years ago and I should like to quote from page 59 of that White Paper because those of us who are on local authorities today know the impact on our rates due to the health services.

As members of local authorities, it is our duty as well as our responsibility to provide this money although we have been promised often in the past that the local authorities would be relieved of this responsibility. Indeed, I remember the time when Dr. Ryan, as Minister for Health, introduced a Health Act. He informed local authorities—I happened to be on a deputation at the time—that the burden falling on local authorities would only be increased between 2/- and a maximum of 2/6d in the £. We know, of course, that today it is anything from 10/- to 15/- and, indeed, up to 30/- in the £.

It might be no harm to quote from the Government's White Paper on the Health Services and their Further Development. On page 59 it says:

The Government, having studied this issue, are satisfied that the local rates are not a form of taxation suitable for collecting additional money on this scale. They propose, therefore, that the cost of the further extensions of the services should not be met in any proportion by the local rates. Following this decision, other possible sources of revenue to meet the additional costs are being considered but it seems likely that the general body of central taxation must bear the major part of the burden. Pending further consideration of the methods by which extensions of the health services will be financed in future years, the Government have decided to make arrangements which will ensure that the total cost of the services falling on local rates in respect of the year 1966-67 will not exceed the cost in respect of the year 1965-66.

That is a solemn promise made to the Irish people in a White Paper by the Minister for Health in that particular year. As a matter of fact, he held a press conference shortly after and we were told that the proposed legislation was promised in a very short time. Later in that particular year, a further statement was made on behalf of the Government that the White Paper would be implemented in a very short time. At the Fianna Fáil Árd Fheis——

I do not want to interrupt the Deputy, but at this stage we are confined to the Supplementary Estimate involving the granting of a sum of money, but not on health in general.

As far as I can see, the Estimate covers all branches of health.

It covers grants to health authorities and additional sums involved.

In any case, what I want to say is that the Minister for Health in November promised the Fianna Fáil Árd Fheis that the Bill would appear after Christmas. It is now four months after Christmas and we are wasting the time of this House discussing proportional representation. It would be much better if we were discussing the White Paper on the Health Services or the Bill the Government intend to introduce to implement the recommendations of that White Paper. Those of us in local authorities, if I am rightly informed, know that this Supplementary Estimate is due to the fact that these local authorities have to meet further demands. When their demands are increased, they will have to put up 56 per cent or 57 per cent or whatever their proportion may be.

We are entitled to say that we are not satisfied with the progress made to date. We have had plans; we have had Acts; we have had White Papers; but certainly we have not achieved the progress we were promised by the late Mr. O'Malley a few years ago. We all hear—the Fianna Fáil Party especially at times are inclined to quote the words of the Proclamation of 1916—about cherishing all the children of the nation equally. I think it can be truthfully stated that today the local bodies are not cherishing all the children of the nation equally. The ratepayers' and taxpayers' money is being spent and many of us agree that the poor in any county or area, whether it be Westmeath or anywhere else, are entitled to the same attention from our medical and professional people as are the wealthiest people in the State, but unfortunately they are not getting it.

I regretted the fact that I had to make a statement I made at our meeting last week in Westmeath saying that only 90 per cent of our doctors are doing their work well. Unfortunately, there are 10 per cent putting out their hands and drawing their salaries who are not prepared to give the poor of the county the services to which they are entitled. We believe that is wrong.

If a man is paid, it is his duty to attend to his patients at night and when he goes into their house, he should not say that a medical card is worth nothing to him, but "I want the pound." If they are being paid by the State, it is their duty to give their fullest and best attention to those poor people.

I think it is time we came down to realities. Promises of pie in the sky are of little use to our people. Despite the fact that we have had native government now for over 50 years, and last year we had appropriate celebrations, we have to admit that throughout the country today facts disclose a continuation of the inadequate and the degraded type of health services that have been in operation in this country for far too long. They contain a lot of the stamp of the poor law system in the health services. We have still no choice of doctor. We still have the means test operating in its worst and most stringent manner and, indeed, people are compelled to present themselves at dispensaries to get medical treatment, thereby branding themselves as a section——

I do not want to interrupt, but the Deputy is going into a discussion on health in general rather than speaking on the Supplementary Estimate.

I would welcome a change. Despite the fact that this extra money is being voted, we are not satisfied. We think the time has come that instead of getting promises from different Fianna Fáil Ministers of pie in the sky and improvements in the future, they should come down to reality and implement what was promised in that White Paper a few years ago.

It is hardly worth my while rising to speak on this Supplementary Estimate as Question Time is almost at hand.

The principal matter referred to in the Minister's very short brief is the additional supplement to the Estimate required to assist local authorities in respect of health charges. The health charges on local authorities are, in my opinion, a contributory factor to the crushing burden of high rates. In so far as we in public life are concerned, we know that certain positive promises were made that the central authority, the Minister for Health, would come to the rescue of our local authorities and cushion the burden of this serious impact on our rates, that is, the cost of the health services.

That has not yet been done and it is a source of great worry and anxiety that our local authorities must carry this crushing burden which we feel should be the responsibility of the central authority, the Department of Health proper. We would hope on this occasion to see the Minister avail of this opportunity and say what precisely he proposes to do to meet the growing cost of the health charges on our local authorities which they simply cannot afford to meet much longer.

Progress reported; Committee to sit again.
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