Vol. 260 No. 14
asked the Minister for Local Government if his attention has been drawn to a report (details supplied) stating that the Archbishop of Dublin, Dr. Ryan, has had consultations with interested and informed persons regarding the housing shortage in Dublin and the social and moral dangers involved therein; if he will indicate what steps he proposes taking to provide more accommodation in the Dublin area; and if he will now declare a housing crisis in Dublin.
97.
asked the Minister for Local Government what further progress has been made in his discussions with Dublin Corporation on the provision of accommodation for families with one child.
98.
asked the Minister for Local Government the total number of tenancy dwellings which Dublin Corporation expect to have completed by the end of 1972.
99.
asked the Minister for Local Government if he will state the total number of families on Dublin Corporation waiting list at the latest available date, indicating the number with (a) four children, (b) three children, (c) two children and (d) one child.
With your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, I propose to take Questions Nos. 96 to 99 together.
I am aware of the Archbishop's interest in the housing situation in Dublin and of the consultations which have taken place with senior officers of my Department and of Dublin Corporation and with other interested parties. I understand that His Grace is concerned primarily to establish in what manner a positive contribution to the housing situation could be made by voluntary effort. For my part, I am certain that there is a considerable potential in properly organised voluntary associations for easing the housing problems of certain categories and I welcome this move to tap that potential and look forward with interest to its further development.
The primary responsibility for the provision of housing for those in need of it who are unable to provide their own accommodation must, however, continue to rest with the local housing authorities. In the Dublin city area the corporation had, at 31st March, 1972, work in progress or ready to be started on 3,120 dwellings, including 143 purchase-type houses, and had plans in hands for another 4,190. They had purchased, or were in process of acquiring, sites on which a further 12,612 dwellings could be built. The corporation re-housed 2,463 families in 1971-72, including 232 of their existing tenants who were provided with purchase-type houses. They provided 1,472 new dwellings in 1971-72, of which 91 were allocated to Dublin County Council applicants.
I have not received any estimate from the corporation of the number of tenancy dwellings which they expect to have completed by the end of 1972. This week they have submitted, at my request, a five-year housing programme which is being examined in my Department and which indicates that there should be a substantial increase in the number of new dwelling completions this year.
Private and co-operative housing in the Dublin area—as in the country as a whole—has been progressing at an extremely high level since the ending of the cement strike in 1970. For example, the number of grants allocated by my Department last year for new houses in the area was 5,565, representing an increase of no less than 77 per cent over the corresponding figure for 1969-70.
As regards the number of families on the corporation's approved waiting list, I would refer the Deputy to my reply to Question No. 117 of 5th August, 1971. No more up-to-date information has since been submitted to me by the corporation. A further detailed review of the approved waiting list would normally be due to be carried out by the corporation towards the end of this year or early next year.
I do not intend to declare a housing emergency in Dublin. Such a declaration would serve no useful purpose. At present the Government are making available all the capital that is required for the corporation's current building programme, which is formidable and which is again being supplemented, at the corporation's request, by the National Building Agency. The agency have been assigned an area in the Tolka Valley which may accommodate up to 1,700 houses to be provided under the guaranteed order project. Work has already started on two sections of this development, comprising more than 600 houses.
As regards the re-housing of small families on the approved waiting list, I understand that the prototype dwellings being built in Bray with the co-operation of the urban district council, are practically completed and that they show promise. These prototypes will be inspected in the near future by officers of Dublin Corporation, who are also designing their own small family dwellings for use in a special programme. I hope also to get, in the near future, the results of the survey which they are making of sites for the provision of enclaves of these special dwellings in the various housing areas.
Would the Minister not think it advisable that there should be a quarterly list available showing the number of families with four, three or two children or one child, on the housing list? I have asked six questions and I would like to ask a few supplementaries. Would the Minister not think it advisable to ask Dublin Corporation to provide a quarterly list of the numbers on the housing list in order to keep the Minister up-to-date on the housing requirements so that he could make decisions accordingly? It would be difficult for the Minister to know the situation if the corporation did not provide him with lists. They have not provided him with this information since 5th August, 1971. Quarterly lists should be available.
They might spend more time drawing up lists than they would dealing with housing problems. The preparation of such lists and the carrying out of these reviews has to be comprehensive if it is going to be factual and useful. I could see a situation where there would be a large number of staff involved in preparing statistics at the expense of other more practical work which would contribute more to the provision of housing than the type of work which the Deputy suggests. Reviews are undertaken at reasonable intervals. I have a good idea of the size of the housing problem in Dublin.
Would the Minister tell us the total number of people on the corporation housing list? The corporation have these figures available. If they have not got them available then every person on the housing list must realise that he is not getting any attention. The corporation must know the numbers that are classified as having two, three, four or five children. If these families are not classified, the Minister cannot know what is happening. This will undermine the confidence of the people in the housing scheme. Would the Minister tell us the total number of families on the housing list at the latest available date this year? Surely he should be able to tell us that.
I have already informed the Deputy that the latest information available to me was given in reply to a Parliamentary question on the 5th August last.
Surely the situation has changed since 5th August last, which is almost a year ago? Has the Minister no up-to-date report on the current housing crisis?
In actual fact there is no obligation on the Dublin Corporation to supply me with details of the number of persons on the housing list.
Do the corporation get money from the Minister?
They do, and the local authorities have been given this additional strengthening of their powers and functions some years ago in that they themselves keep fully informed on the number of persons applying for houses from them and come forward with their proposals for new local authority housing schemes. The Department have always met the reasonable demands of Dublin Corporation. The Dublin local authority housing programme has never been held up in recent years due to lack of capital being made available by the Department. Sanction has always been forthcoming for local authority houses in Dublin. My main task is to encourage the corporation to come forward with a substantial increase in the number of houses which they propose to build. This is why I ask them to give me a programme of the local authority housing proposals to be constructed over the next five years in the Dublin area. I am anxious to see the house construction programme stepped up substantially.
How can the Minister know there is need to do so, if he has not got precise information as to the numbers on the housing list?
The Deputy is being very unreasonable.
I want to know exactly the number of families on the housing list at the present time.
I have answered the Deputy's questions adequately.
The Minister has not given me satisfactory answers at all. The Archbishop has expressed concern at the housing situation in Dublin. The Minister is not right in smirking or grinning about it. Is that any consolation to the families with one child or two children who are on the housing list? The Minister has given no information whatever. He was waffling. He has an obligation to get this information. Would he get that information and send it to me in writing?
I smile, or smirk, whichever the Deputy wishes to call it, as an indication of my surprise at the Deputy's source of information. As the Deputy will appreciate in other fields his party are opposing the Archbishop on certain issues.
I applaud the Archbishop on this. The Minister should give us some indication of the present housing position. I asked him to tell us the total number of families on the housing list. This is a very serious matter. This is poor consolation to the families with one child or two children who are constantly flocking to Deputy Tunney's "clinics" about this problem. This is a problem also for Deputy Tunney and other Fianna Fáil Deputies.
We must get on to the next question.
We should have an indication of the numbers on the housing list and an idea as to when the number of families on that list can be housed. If the Minister would give me that information I would not badger him with any other questions.
The Minister is more concerned than the Deputy about the housing situation in Dublin. If there is any waffling being done it is being done by Deputy O'Connell.
The Chair is saying that the Deputy is becoming argumentative. Question No. 100.
Would the Minister tell us the total number of families on the housing list?
I gave the Deputy the information in the reply.
The Chair is asking the Minister to answer Question No. 100.
This is a very serious question. I am asking the Minister for figures.
We cannot have an argument at Question Time. The Deputy appreciates that.
I appreciate the indulgence of the Chair in this matter, but this is a serious matter for Dublin Corporation's homeless families. Deputy Tunney should be as concerned about it as I am.
But not as arrogantly.
I do not think it is wrong to ask a question. The Minister is being arrogant in refusing to answer.
Will the Deputy allow the Minister to answer?
I cannot get satisfaction. I cannot raise the matter on the Adjournment. It is very wrong that the Minister will not give the information.
100.
asked the Minister for Local Government (1) the total number of local authority dwellings and (2) the total number of people housed in local authority dwellings in (a) Dublin city, (b) Dublin county and (c) the Twenty-six Counties.
Returns submitted by local authorities to my Department indicate that at the 31st March, 1971, the total number of dwellings let by them was 105,707, of which 46,224 were let by Dublin Corporation and 5,026 by Dublin County Council and Dún Laoghaire Corporation. Information on the number of persons living in these dwellings is not available in my Department.
101.
asked the Minister for Local Government the cost of (a) a three bedroomed flat, (b) a two bedroomed flat and (c) a one bedroomed flat in the high rise eight storey flat towers in Kilbarrack, Dublin.
Dublin Corporation's estimate of the all in cost of the three, two and one bedroom flats in the Kilbarrack housing scheme was £5,900, £5,223 and £3,954 per flat respectively, on the basis of the accepted tender. Final all-in-cost figures are not yet available.
Would the Minister not agree that the sum is exorbitant when compared to the price of a four bedroomed house with central heating and other amenities? Is it not exorbitant in comparision with houses offered on the commercial market at considerably lower figures?
The Deputy should put down a specific question.
The Deputy's view and my view as to what is exorbitant may differ.
Does the Minister not consider a two bedroomed flat at £5,000 is exorbitant compared with a four bedroomed house available at £4,500?
That is elaborating on the question that was asked.
102.
asked the Minister for Local Government the maximum amount in rent, rates and heating payable in the Dublin area for (i) a one bedroomed flat, (ii) a two bedroomed flat, (iii) a three bedroomed flat and (iv) a house under the C scale rent.
As the reply is in the form of a tabular statement, I propose, with your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, to circulate it with the Official Report.
Following is the statement:
The maximum amount in rent and rates under the Differential Rents Scheme (c) is as follows:
|
Size of Dwelling |
Maximum Rent* |
Maximum Rates* |
|
1. |
2. |
3. |
|
£ |
||
|
1 Room dwelling |
1.25 |
33p |
|
2 Room dwelling |
1.75 |
50p |
|
3 Room dwelling |
3.00 |
73p |
|
4 Room dwelling |
3.37 |
90p |
|
5 and 6 Room dwelling |
3.75 |
1.03p |
* A sum for rates up to and including 1964-65 is included in the maximum rent of each dwelling. Maximum rates for each dwelling since 1964-65 are shown in column 3.
As central heating has not been installed in any dwelling to which Scheme C applies, there is no heating charge.
