In regard to the point raised by Deputy Lynch about the recall of the Dáil and the ability of one-third of the Members of either House to recall the Dáil, and the inherent weakness of this provision which, as has been said, was included in the 1972 Act, I take it the Minister does not feel the necessity to change it, obviously, since it was included again, nor does he fear any abuse of the weakness inherent in it? Is that the Minister's general position on that point?
European Communities (Amendment) Bill, 1973: Committee and Final Stages.
Section 1 agreed to.
SECTION 2.
Question proposed: "That section 2 stand part of the Bill."
The answer is that we do not fear any abuse and we do not see the need to change the provision. While it would be technically possible under this for the Opposition to claim the recall of the Dáil using this provision but trying to use it for another purpose altogether, that would be frustrated by the ability of the Government to order the business. Of course, if this were persisted in the Government could introduce legislation to change this. It is highly improbable under our democratic system that any Opposition would frivolously abuse any power in that way. It does seem necessary to us to give to the Opposition the power to recall the Dáil to discuss a regulation which has been found by the committee to be in some way objectionable. If the democratic system is to work that power should be there. We do not believe it will be abused and there are safeguards if it is abused, including the safeguard of repealing the legislation if that should prove necessary.
Does the Minister feel the same applies to the recalling of the Seanad?
Yes, I am sorry. Exactly the same principle applies in the case of the Seanad.
And the procedure would be that the Taoiseach would just stand up and say——
If either the Dáil or the Seanad were recalled, using their power but for the purpose of embarrassing the Government by discussing something quite different, then it is open to the Government side in those circumstances simply to say: "There is no business". If the power is properly used in relation to a recommendation of the committee and the Dáil and Seanad are recalled in those circumstances, then, of course, the Dáil and Seanad must discuss the point brought forward.
Will there be a specific regulation dealt with at the extraordinary meeting of the Dáil?
I do not know offhand whether that would technically be the case. It may or may not technically be the case.
Open-ended?
What would happen would be that the committee would have had a meeting, would have had decided that it wished to challenge the regulation. That meeting would have occurred, presumably, in the period when Parliament was in recess and then, following that, notice would be given the purpose of which would be evident. Whether it would a requirement that that be formally stated in that notice given by the one-third, I do not know. The wording here does not simply imply that that is necessary, but I think it would be clear what the purpose was.
Would it not be advisable that the Ceann Comhairle be appraised of the business, of the specific regulation to be dealt with?
I do not think it is anything which would require an amendment of the Bill. I shall look into it, and if any serious point arises, I can deal with it in the other House, but I do not think there is any real difficulty here.
Does the Minister envisage that the powers of the Ceann Comhairle would be extended? I envisage a situation in which the subject matter of the recall might be debatable. The Government might have one view and we might hold a contrary view, in a borderline case, particularly on a matter which is sub judice.
This only comes into play if the committee decide that some regulation is objectionable. When that happens, then this procedure comes into operation. There should be no question in anybody's mind. The only thing that properly can be put before the Dáil or the Seanad when they resume would be the particular regulation rejected by the committee which gave rise to the recall.
Deputies or Senators who are not members of the committee can recall the Dáil?
Quite.
Is it necessary that this operation should be carried out by members of the Committee?
No.
One-third of the House, no matter who they are, can recall the House?
Yes. When the Dáil or Seanad resume the only business properly before them arising from this Bill would be the regulations.
That covers the point about abuse.
It does.
Would it be possible to spell that out?
I do not think it is possible or appropriate to spell out that the recall must be for this purpose.
Will it be necessary for the purpose of this section to have Standing Orders of this House or of the Seanad amended?
I do not think so.
Surely it must be necessary?
The provision here is exactly the same in so far as the Dáil is concerned as it is in the Communities Act. I do not think any change is involved here.
The functions of the Ceann Comhairle remain the same?
Yes.
Question put and agreed to.
Title agreed to.
Bill reported without amendment, received for final consideration and passed.