asked the Minister for Local Government if he is satisfied with the present standards set by his Department in respect of qualifications for driving licences; if he considers that these standards are being too rigidly adhered to by the team of testers; the present rate of failure at 1st, 2nd and 3rd tests; and if recent directives have been issued to the testers regarding standards.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Driving Test.
19.
The answers to the four separate queries comprised in this question are respectively:
(1) Yes, but the matter is kept under review; (2) No; (3) This information is not available in the form requested by the Deputy. The present rate of failure at all tests is 51 per cent, and it is estimated on the basis of past experience that the failure rate is similar, both for persons undergoing their first test, and for all others, that is, those undergoing a second or later test; (4) The latest general directive on standards was issued in August, 1973.
The Minister replied "no" to the question whether he considered the standards were being too rigidly adhered to. Was this not allegedly one of the reasons why a tester was let off in November last? Was it not because of a too rigid application of the testing rules, because, as he put it, he was not willing to conform to a departmental directive to the effect that less than 50 per cent should be failed?
No, but if a tester does not do his job properly, like any other person in employment, it is to be expected that he will be warned on a number of occasions and eventually dismissed. Even Deputy Lalor will admit that a consistent 90 per cent failure rate would get anybody changed from being a tester.
Even a Minister.
Does that mean that the Minister is satisfied that the man he dismissed was not qualified?
I am afraid we are entering a different area.
Yes, I was satisfied.
Is that the reason why the Minister refused to meet him?
I was satisfied. My officials met him. It is not usual for the Minister to meet people who are dismissed for good reasons and who subsequently write to the Minister giving a long history of complaints against those with whom they worked. In this case I believe the man was not unfairly dealth with. He was warned on a number of occasions.
There are separate issues being raised here. Question No. 20.
Am I to understand that there were exactly equal percentages of failures on the first, second and third tests?
Strange as it may seem, that is the information which the statistics have thrown up.
Would it be possible for the Minister to compile statistics on the failure rate on the first test for the House at some future time? I cannot see what the difficulty would be.
Yes, at some future time. It was done some time ago and one could spend a lot of time bringing out statistics which would not prove very much. Separate records are not kept for first and subsequent tests but a spot check covering a random selection of cases was made in April, 1973. The check revealed that the pass rate for a first attempt was 50 per cent and that overall for persons doing the second or third or subsequent tests it was slightly over 50 per cent. There is no statistical reason why that should be so but that appears to have been the evidence.
Question No. 20.
Is the Minister satisfied that the driving tests and the issue of driving licences make a satisfactory contribution to road safety in the overall and that money which is involved in the administration of this scheme could not be put to better use for the purpose of road safety?
No. I am satisfied it is doing an excellent job. The standard of driving has improved considerably as a result of the driving test being introduced. Anybody who studies it will agree that the money being expended is being very well used. The testers are given refresher courses from time to time and they work under supervision. There are spot checks carried out by supervisor testers to ensure that the standard is kept fairly high or very high all along and I think they are doing a very good job.
Is the Minister satisfied that driving has actually improved since the introduction of driving tests?
I am satisfied that the people who are now getting licences to drive cars are people who are able to drive cars. What would worry me a little is the number of people who appear to be driving cars and who have not got or have not gone to the trouble of looking for drivers' licences. But that is not my department; somebody else is looking after that.
I must dissuade Deputies from debating this matter today.
Would the Minister agree that there is a discrepancy in the percentage as between one tester and another and that this is probably what gives rise to complaints? The overall percentages may be all right but as regards the individual or the area there may be discrepancies.
No, I have heard complaints to that effect. But, having had the matter examined by some of the supervisors, I am satisfied that while there may be discrepancies it is a very small proportion of a percentage point up or down and I think it is relatively level all over the country.
Question No. 20.
There are more people being killed.
I do not think it is the driver testing that is causing people to be killed, if Deputy Lemass does not mind my saying so.