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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 20 May 1980

Vol. 321 No. 1

Adjournment Debate. - Tipperary-Waterford Housing Schemes.

I am grateful for the opportunity of raising this most important matter tonight, especially as I was deeply disappointed that I was denied the opportunity of ventilating this and many other issues in the debate for the Estimate for the Environment last Friday owing to the strange procedure and the absurd time limit employed on that occasion. I express the ardent hope that what happened then will never happen again because I think it posed a very serious threat to the rights of elected Members to speak on fundamental issues affecting the lives of their constituents on important Estimates.

I am dealing tonight with a question which appeared on the Order Paper on Tuesday, 6 May 1980, addressed to the Minister for the Environment as follows:

To ask the Minister for the Environment if he will outline the programme for new house building submitted to his Department from each of the following local authorities: (i) Clonmel Borough Council, (ii) Carrick-on-Suir UDC, (iii) Tipperary UDC, (iv) Cashel UDC, (v) Waterford County Council,

—an area for which I expect to have some responsibility and one to which I look forward after the next general election—

(vi) Tipperary S.R. County Council; the date of submission and the number of houses in respect of each scheme, the cost per scheme, when sanction will issue in each case and the reason for the delay in providing the necessary money.

The Minister's reply was as follows:

On 15 February 1980, all housing authorities were asked to furnish particulars of their capital requirements in 1980 for (a) housing schemes—not already included in existing commitments—which have been advertised for tender or which will be so advertised by 30 April 1980; (b) rural cottages—not already included in existing commitments—on which it is proposed to start work by 31 July 1980, and (c) demountable dwellings—not already included in existing commitments—for which it is proposed to give firm orders by 31 July 1980.

In reply the authorities mentioned in the Deputy's question furnished the following details and their estimates of expenditure in 1980.

Scheme

No. of houses

Estimated all-in-cost

Estimated expenditure during 1980

Date of submission

Clonmel Borough Council

£

£

Elm Park

12

150,000

100,000

Bianconi Drive

8

135,000

100,000

Wilderness

76

1,600,000

325,000

5/3/1980

Gladstone St. Upper

2

30,000

25,000

Wilderness private sites

15

60,000

60,000

Tipperary Urban District Council

Glenview Square

31

583,180

400,000

O'Connell Road

6

94,000

94,000

19/2/1980

Knockanrawley (Extn.)

5

80,000

80,000

Cashel Urban District Council

Ashwells Lot

52

1,100,000

450,000

15/1/1980

Carrick-on-Suir Urban District Council

No application

26/2/1980

Tipperary S R County Council

Kilross

4

72,000

10,000

Faugheen

8

128,000

84,600

Dundrum

6

86,800

63,800

Cahir

18

320,000

75,000

Mullinahone

6

108,000

50,000

27/2/1980

Kilsheelan

8

144,000

60,000

The Commons

4

70,000

54,000

Kilcash

6

112,000

30,000

Rural cottages

6

60,000

25,000

Waterford County Council

Dunmore East

9

120,000

80,000

Bawnfune

2

22,000

11,000

Dunhill

2

22,000

11,000

Leamybrien

4

45,000

22,500

Lismore

4

50,000

25,000

Stradbally

2

22,000

11,000

21/2/1980

Tallow

4

50,000

25,000

Cheekpoint

4

45,000

25,000

Rural cottages

8

80,000

46,000

Demountables

4

16,000

16,000

The Minister's final statement is relevant:

These applications are being considered in conjunction with similar applications received from other housing authorities and I will make my decision on them as soon as possible.

The purpose of raising this matter tonight is to bring to the notice of the Minister the fact that these houses are urgently required and that the local authorities are anxiously awaiting sanction to embark upon their erection immediately. The early commencement of these schemes is vital to hundreds, if not thousands, of families who are at present living in appalling housing circumstances, in overcrowded and insanitary conditions, in dingy flats and hovels in an environment which is a threat to their health and happiness. I am appealing to the Minister to ensure that the necessary moneys are made available without any further delay. Surely he will not condemn these people to a further long purgatory of waiting. To do so would be an act of utter irresponsibility and callousness. The delay is unprecedented and can have tragic consequences.

The homeless in my constituency are anxiously waiting for the Minister's answer tonight. What is it going to be? Is it yes or no? We want to know when this money will be provided, how much is being provided and when. There should be no ambiguity. This is a matter of fundamental importance not merely to the homeless for whom I speak tonight but also to the building industry in my constituency. It affects the future of that industry and, in large measure, jobs. If these schemes are abandoned, what is to become of the building industry and the workers who depend on that industry for their livelihood? Such a move will dislocate the building industry. Many smaller firms may not recover from this recession and serious unemployment will result.

There are millions of pounds worth of work involved in these housing schemes and to withhold the money would be an act of social and economic irresponsibility and cause chaos in our local authorities. The Minister will never be forgiven if he embarks on this retrograde step of withholding the money this year.

One of the great features of house building in my constituency was the expansion of the co-operative scheme. Many people housed under this scheme either resided in council houses or were on the local authority approved waiting list. Having come together on a co-operative basis they were able to build their own homes.

In south Tipperary co-operative groups have successful house building schemes in the following areas—Clonmel, Cahir, Fethard, Tipperary and Carrick-on-Suir. For all these schemes the local authority provided the sites on a 30-35 year repayment scheme. This allowed the couples concerned the full use of the SDA loans and the Department grant to build houses. In the last increase in the SDA and low rise mortgage loans the Minister in his circular made it quite clear that the maximum loan available in future by way of finance from local authorities, including the cost of the site, is £12,000. This effectively will make home ownership for all incomes up to £5,500 impossible.

This means in effect that if the council were to develop sites and dispose of them at say £4,000 repayable over 30 years, the maximum loan which could be advanced for the building of a house would be £8,000. This will affect the council's programme of co-operative building at Ballingarrane and Fethard. The only way the applicant will be allocated his £12,000 loan for the erection of a house would be that he pay cash down for the site. I do not believe the Minister realised the serious implications of precluding local authorities from making these special site loans available.

There is nothing in the Deputy's question about loans.

My question relates to house building.

The Deputy is getting away from his question and he knows he should not do that.

I do not wish to depart from my question which refers to local authority, private and co-operative house building.

No, your question was a specific one.

It deals with house building in my constituency.

The Deputy cannot discuss all kinds of housing on a specific question.

I am dealing with the specific question which I outlined tonight and which is on the record of the House. I appeal to the Minister to help us build more houses by way of co-operative endeavour. Otherwise it will be a death blow to co-operative house building in my constituency.

The local authorities to which I have referred have very proud records of house building and have made great progress in recent years. I am a member of the South Tipperary County Council and Clonmel Corporation which also have proud records in house building. Great achievements took place especially under the dynamic leadership of the then Minister, Deputy Tully.

It will be a stunning blow to all local authority members, irrespective of their party politics, when they realise they will get no money this year for new house starts. That is the only construction one can put on the Minister's attitude, especially his statement here last Friday. I quote from the Minister's speech——

The Deputy knows better than I that he cannot quote on a question on the Adjournment.

It is a very brief quotation——

Sorry, but if I allow the Deputy to quote I would have to allow quotations on every Adjournment Debate. Quotations are not in order on a question on the Adjournment or on any question.

The Chair seems anxious to frustrate my——

The Chair is not anxious to frustrate the Deputy but he cannot quote on a question of this kind and he knows it.

I will paraphrase what he said. He asked housing authorities to carry out a fresh assessment of housing needs in their areas to cover the period up to 31 March 1985. He said he would analyse the assessments with a view to up-dating housing policy to meet the needs of the eighties. I believe there is no need for an assessment of this kind. The local authorities, the members, the managers, the officials and the homeless know their needs. I believe this is a cover-up for bankruptcy on the part of the Department. This is a gigantic stalling device which deceives no one. This fresh assessment is a nonsense. The Minister must be honest with the House, with the people and with me and say if these moneys are available. There should be no ambiguity about this. The thought of waiting until the end of the year for an allocation of money for housing schemes for 1980 is an absurdity which we cannot accept.

This House will adjourn in June or early July and will not reconvene until October, as is usual. Is it seriously suggested that the local authorities to whom I referred and for whom I speak tonight will get no allocation of money until this mock assessment is carried out? What is to happen in the meantime? In the meantime our housing programme will grind to a halt. We are witnessing the strangulation of our local authorities and we are, moreover, witnessing the virtual collapse of local government here. I want the Minister to come clean and say precisely what allocation of money he is making available to the authorities and when that money is going to be made available.

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this. The position is that my Department made an allocation available to local authorities on 14 March. In regard to the other areas that Deputy Treacy has mentioned they must be taken in line with the needs of the whole country.

I want to say some very interesting things. For example, on 13 September 1979 Clonmel needed 58 houses which were completed on 31 December 1979. On 31 January 1980 it was estimated that eight houses were needed in Clonmel. We have got to get our facts right. My Department and I have a responsibility in regard to all local authority and private housing. The record will show that we have taken positive steps to improve the lot of all the families here. Last year we completed 26,000 houses. I am satisfied that this year local authorities will complete over 6,000 houses. For the first quarter of this year new house grant applications are up by almost a quarter. Deputy Treacy comes in and sheds crocodile tears in regard to housing. At present our targets are spot on. Let me be straight and honest with the House. I have not got a pocket full of money without any bottom to it.

Now the Minister is being honest about it.

We spelled out at the beginning of the year that in various Departments there were certain allocations of money available. There are lots of things we as a Government would like to do but financial restraint make this sometimes impossible. Let us deal with the situation as I see it now in regard to all housing. Let us take the improvements we have made in regard to all housing loans and other incentives to people building houses today. It comes a long way from the Coalition days when the income limit was £2,300; that was paupers' wages and that was only less than three years ago. People on the dole could not get a loan to build a house. The loan then was £4,500 and that would not build a decent hen house. Let us be fair about the situation. We have brought it a long way since then. I can assure Tipperary County Council, Waterford County Council and all the other county councils that they will be notified in due course of new allocations of money.

I am not going to say when but they will be notified.

How can houses be built without money?

We can build houses and our record will show that we are the only people who have built houses. When the Coalition Government were in office the whole building industry went bankrupt.

It is near bankruptcy now.

If the Deputy wants to come in here now to make cheap political capital it is too bad. I will get back to the terms of the motion. The Deputy mentioned some areas that are only at planning stage.

A lot of them are ready to start.

When we supplied a written reply to the Deputy, as requested by him, we gave him all the information he requested. That is the position.

We did not get any money.

We notified local authorities on 15 February about new works. We explained that they should not enter into new commitments without informing the Department. Every local authority and corporation in the country received that. I am satisfied that my Government will be able to remain on target this year in regard to private and local authority houses. We will be notifying all local authorities and corporations in due course of when new allocations will be made.

The Dáil adjourned at 9 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 21 May 1980.

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