asked the Minister for Energy the percentage of energy consumption previously estimated which he expects his energy conservation programme will save in 1985; and the basis upon which the calculation has been made.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Energy Saving.
31.
It is not possible or useful at this time to try to set down a rigid global target for energy savings which conservation programmes can be expected to achieve in 1985. Conservation programmes are being developed for the different sectors and the degree of conservation which can be achieved by 1985 will vary significantly from sector to sector. Those for the industrial and commercial sectors are well advanced, that for the transport sector as yet is less advanced.
The best current estimates, supported by technical experts and energy users, of the conservation potential in the country suggest that by 1985 a 15 per cent saving on currently projected needs is not unrealistic in regard to the industrial sector, while the potential in the domestic-commercial sector is estimated at 10 per cent and in the transport sector 5 per cent. The achievement of these savings will depend on the implementation of effective conservation programmes and the estimate of savings will be necessarily revised as experience is gained.
Very much depends on the public response and commitment. The achievement of a greater public awareness of the importance and practical benefits of conservation is one of my immediate priorities. I believe it may be necessary to follow up the general publicity drive with specific new measures in particular sectors which will go beyond exhortation and the possibilities in this regard are being examined.
Is the Minister basing his projected savings of 15 per cent and 5 per cent on those current projected needs based on the projections quoted by him in reply to the previous question which he has already admitted are inaccurate?
The estimate in the case of the industrial sector is based on estimates made by the IIRS when they were drawing up their boiler testing service as part of the conservation programme. The estimates in regard to the domestic commercial sector were made by An Foras Forbartha in connection with projections concerning the housing stock and the effect of insulation on it. As regards domestic energy, the figures are from my Department. The question of the amount of projected energy on which the percentage was calculated is one to which I cannot give a specific answer. I assume they are the projections I referred to earlier in the 1978 document.
Would the Minister not agree that it is essential for any assessment of an energy conservation programme and its effectiveness, that there should be agreement as to the basis upon which these savings are calculated? The Minister should be able, if not now at least on another occasion, to give specific answers to the concurrence between the basis of calculation of the projections for the savings as against the basis of calculation of the projection for increased consumption generally.
No. I want to make this clear. I said earlier, and I want to repeat it now, that it is not possible or useful at this time to try to set down a rigid global target for energy savings which conservation programmes can be expected to achieve in 1985. I do not believe that it is possible to do this, not only in relation to this conservation programme, but to any conservation programme. As an example, let me point out to the House that one of the effective things one can hope for from a conservation programme other than a reduction in energy consumption is a switch in the use of certain kinds of energy so that one gets a more efficient use of the energy being used. That does not reflect a reduction in the consumption of energy. Yet it is one of the things that one would hope for from an effective conservation programme. I would not wish in any sense to get hung up on particular percentage targets because they are not realistic in the context of conservation.
This will be the last supplementary from Deputy Kelly.
It is not the last question; it is the first one.
We cannot spend all our energy on energy this evening.
We could spend it on worse things.
We possibly could but there are a lot of questions to be answered.
I agree with the Minister that it cannot be very easy to make a prediction five years ahead about what an energy conservation programme will achieve. But I notice that he did make a flying guess under various heads. He mentioned the private sector, the industrial sector and the transport sector. Would he agree that it would be very useful if he got his Department to add another subhead to this, namely, the public administration or public service sector in view of the fact that this is a sector in which the State has a quite special role, namely, one of command, which it has not got anywhere else and in which the State can itself lay down norms in regard to the heating of buildings, the cleaning of boilers, the effective servicing of vehicles and things like that, and also in view of the fact that the State itself is an extremely heavy energy consumer?
I agree fully with the Deputy on that. There is in existence a committee in regard to energy conservation in public buildings. I am not very happy about the results but I am trying to do something about it at the moment. I do not think anybody in this House is very satisfied with it.
One does not even have to leave the House to realise it does not work in winter.
I agree. As the Deputy says, the State should be in a position to control the matter and therefore the public sector is, perhaps, one that is more amenable than any other sector to a conservation programme.