Amendments Nos. 1 and 2 in the name of Deputy O'Toole are related and may be taken together.
Pyramid Selling Bill, 1980: Report and Final Stages.
I have not seen the text of the amendments.
They are on today's Order Paper.
As a rule we are supplied wih the text of the amendments.
No, they are on the Order Paper.
My officials cannot be expected to have a copy of the Order Paper. We are always supplied with a copy of the amendments.
If they are on the Order Paper they are not issued generally.
I move amendment No. 1:
In page 3, line 36, after "induce" to insert "or attempt to induce".
On Committee Stage I put forward what I regarded as a very cogent argument in favour of the introduction of these amendments on the basis of clarification and putting this beyond yea or nay. The Minister at the time intimated that he would have the matter looked at at this Stage and I assumed that, having reflected on this, he would agree that in the interest of clarity and certainty he would accept the arguments put forward in favour of the inclusion of these amendments.
It is correct that on Committee Stage I undertook to look into this matter to see if it was necessary to amend section 2 to state specifically that it shall be an offence to attempt to induce a person to become a participant in a pyramid selling scheme and to amend section 3 to specify that it shall be an offence to attempt to induce a person to make a payment in connection with same. The Attorney General's office was consulted and I am advised that every attempt to commit an offence is an offence at common law — that is very clear — and that if one creates an offence in statute law it is automatically an offence to attempt to do whatever it is that constitutes the offence. We looked up the matter further and I am also informed that it is covered in paragraph 4100 of the 38th edition of Archbold's Criminal Pleading, Evidence and Practice, a generally accepted authority on these matters. Having consulted both the Attorney General's office and law procedures, we find it is not really necessary to include the amendment. Perhaps Deputy O'Toole wishes to make observations on it.
I should like to conclude by putting my few words in the form of a question. I accept what the Minister of State has said. But why is this format included in umpteen Acts passed through this House if what the Minister of State says stands? If what he says is true — and I have no doubt that it is—the attempt at the commission of an offence would be regarded as unlawful and would result in a prosecution.
To cut the whole discussion very short——
The Minister has not the right to come back in, but I will allow him to reply briefly.
Would the Deputy feel much happier if the amendment were included?
I would.
I think there is no need to include it but I will accept the amendment if the Deputy would feel happier with it.
Amendment agreed to.
I move amendment No. 2:
In page 4, line 11, after "induces" to insert "or attempts to induce".
This is consequential on the first amendment and if we accept the first one we must logically accept the second one.
Amendment agreed to.
Question put and agreed to.
Bill, as amended, received for final consideration and passed.