asked the Minister for Justice if he is aware that surveillance forms a major part of essential Garda operational methods to obtain convictions against major heroin dealers and that the restrictions on overtime are a serious drawback in this regard; if he will review the position with regard to members of drug units and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Garda Drug Units.
8.
It is for the Garda authorities, in the exercise of their professional judgment, to assess the relative merits of surveillance and of other forms of Garda activity. Similarly, it is for the Garda authorities to decide whether or to what extent particular duties are to be carried out on overtime or on rostered duty.
I am informed by the Garda authorities that as far as they are concerned there is no overtime problem of the kind suggested in the question.
As I have informed the House on a number of occasions — most recently on 7 November when I spoke in connection with the Supplementary Estimate for the Garda Síochána — adequate finance for essential Garda duties will continue to be provided and, as the Deputy is no doubt aware, the House, on my recommendation, voted an extra £1.6 million in a Supplementary Estimate for Garda overtime in 1986.
Will the Minister say if there is any limit on Garda overtime in relation to the unit in question?
As the Deputy will be aware, we make an allocation in each year's Estimates for Garda overtime. We increased that allocation this year by £1.6 million in the context of a Supplementary Estimate. The use of those resources is a matter for the Garda authorities and they have informed me that as far as they are concerned there is no overtime problem of the kind raised by the Deputy. I should like to add the reflection that it is a matter for the Garda authorities to decide whether particular jobs are carried out on normal rostered duty or on overtime and that the overtime provision of £13.6 million represents less than 6 per cent of the total pay cost of the Garda.
Will the Minister accept it is his responsibility to ensure that the Garda authorities give priority to issues such as heroin, to which if one is to judge by the Minister's reply the Garda authorities do not give their priority? I should like to take the example of Ballymun. The names of the suppliers in that area are available to the Garda and details of their travelling quite freely to and from their source of supply in London are known by the Garda. They are also aware of the names of the pushers who serve those suppliers. The only way of achieving convictions is by intensive surveillance work and the Garda do not have the manpower by way of a special unit or the time, because of overtime limitations, to obtain those convictions. The problem is now reaching the proportions of a scandal because heroin is virtually out of control in the Ballymun area. Will the Minister ensure that the Garda authorities review this as a matter of priority?
I do not accept the Deputy's contention that no priority is given to dealing with the heroin problem or any part of the drug problem. I do not accept the Deputy's contention that the heroin problem has gone, as he says, out of control in the Ballymun area. In reply to a question on another occasion, I said that although we must still be concerned at the level of drug abuse in the country, and in Dublin in particular, we appear to be making headway against it over the past couple of years, although not perhaps as quickly as we would like to see. It is not true to say either, as I pointed out twice in regard to this question, that there is a specific limitation on Garda overtime in respect of any particular type of Garda operation. While I share the Deputy's concern, and the concern of the House, about effectively combating these matters, the House will be aware of the fact that there is a very clear and specific operational responsibility on the Garda on which this House will not trespass.
The Minister has told us that the question of overtime is a matter for the Garda authorities but will he agree that his predecessor gave firm assurances to the Garda authorities on the additional cost that would arise in relation to Border duties this year which have to come from the overtime allocation mentioned by the Minister? Apparently, this assurance was not met. Will the Minister agree that as a result of this gardaí in their operational duties have been left in a very tight position in regard to overtime and that that is the reason why many problems are arising?
The Deputy seems to have finger nailed himself into a general discussion on Garda overtime riding on the back of this question but I should like to make it clear that there is no question of assurances given to the gardaí, or anybody else, not having been met. There is no question of any specific restrictions being imposed. It was the concern of the House that we should cover the requirments adequately and the Garda were given an assurance by me that funding would be available for overtime to deal with any particular and required duties that could not be handled any other way. I lived up to that because I got the backing of the House for a Supplementary Estimate this year and I hope that is the last we will hear of this nonsense about overtime.
Is the Minister aware of any rural areas that are not being policed because of cutbacks and because gardaí are deprived of overtime? There is little point in trying to mislead the House on this issue.
Deputy O'Keeffe has raised another question. The matter of changes in the structure of the force and in rural policing did not start on 13 February 1986 and if the Deputy wishes to pursue that I will go into it with him, with the permission of the Chair.
The Minister is being very arrogant today. He appears to be annoyed. The writing is on the wall.
For the benefit of Members I should like to quote Standing Order No. 37:
Supplementary questions may be put only for the further elucidation of the information requested, and shall be subject to the ruling of the Ceann Comhairle, both as to relevance and as to number.
They are my instructions and after I allow a further supplementary question from Deputy Gregory who put down the question I will move on to the next question:
Overtime is very relevant. I hope we get to my Question No. 19. I have a question on overtime.
I shall decide this.
We will see what the Minister is talking about, what he is bluffing about.
Deputy Lyons, please cease interrupting.
Let the Deputy not shout at me. I am a sensible man.
Would the Minister visit the Ballymun area and discuss the problem, as I have outlined it, with the Garda Drug Unit. I feel he has been misled by the Garda authorities in the replies he has been giving me today.
Deputy Gregory may not know this, but I am a not an infrequent visitor to the Ballymun area. I have quite a number of friends in that area. As I said earlier in reply to a previous question, the Deputy may be assured that I do not have to wait to be pressed in this House to meet any of the Garda authorities.