Vol. 398 No. 2
5 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Minister for Education the reason Ireland is not participating in any of the five networks undertaking an OECD study of various possible indicators of comparative international educational performance; and if it is the case that no other OECD country has opted out of this project entirely in the same way as Ireland.
I wish to inform the Deputy that Ireland participated in the OECD general programme on education indicators and made a significant contribution towards the development and monitoring of the programme.
Arrangements are being made for my Department to participate in at least one of the technical groups which constitute the next phase of the programme.
The Department were represented by Mr. Bill Hyland, the senior person in charge of statistics, at the series of meetings which developed the programme of which the networks referred to in the question are a phase. These meetings took place in Washington in November 1988, in Poitier in France in March 1989 and in Austria in September 1989. The technical groups are the important current phase of the programme and group one, in which Ireland will participate, will deal with the following areas: age participation in schooling, student attendance, secondary school completion rate, higher education entrance rate, higher education attainment rate and science and engineering graduates. There is no question of Ireland having opted out of the project. This country was very active in its formulation and arrangements have been made to participate in the next phase.
Is the Minister aware that the OECD published a document on 7 October which showed the 20 countries participating in the five different networks that were comparing educational attainments of the different countries and that Ireland was not on that list? Can she say if it is the case that Ireland is now entering one of the networks belatedly as a result of the fact that this question was put down?
Absolutely not. Mr. Bill Hyland is the senior person in charge of statistics in my Department and has been there for a long number of years. His integrity and participation in educational matters are well known. My Department were represented by Mr. Bill Hyland at the series of meetings which developed the programme, of which the networks referred to in the question were a phase. He attended meetings in Washington in November 1988, in Poitier in France in March 1989 and in Austria in September 1989. The technical groups are the important current phase of the programme, and that led to the meetings in 1988 and 1989. In defending the integrity of the person involved, and the standing in which he is held not only in Irish education circles but throughout the world, I should say he was a very important person in the formulation of the programmes.
A final question Deputy Bruton please.
The Minister should avoid an attempt to answer what is a legitimate question about the participation of her Department by trying to defend a named official against charges which were not made against him by me or by anyone else. Can the Minister confirm that the OECD document published on 7 October — a copy of which I have here — gave a list of the 20 countries participating in the networks, and that Ireland does not appear on that list as participating in any of the networks? Without any reference to Mr. Bill Hyland or anybody else, would the Minister simply answer the question? Was Ireland participating in one of the networks at that time and, if so, what steps has the Minister taken to correct this OECD publication? If we were not participating at that time, is it not the case that Ireland is only participating now as a result of this question having been put down?
Do not be daft Deputy Bruton. I wish to inform the Deputy that Ireland participated in the OECD general programme on educational indicators——
In the networks.
——and made a significant contribution towards the development and monitoring of the programme. Arrangements are now being made for my Department to participate in at least one of the technical groups which constitute the next phase of the programme. The Deputy does not want me to mention the name of the esteemed gentleman — he is the person to whom I referred in the earlier part of my reply. He helped with the formulation of the programme by attending a series of meetings.
It is not mentioned in this document.
We will do something about that. The Deputy is attempting to make a name for himself at the expense of people who work hard in my Department.
Question No. 6 please.
May I say to the Minister——
These are questions nominated for priority to which a very strict time limit applies. I have five questions to dispose of. May I have your assistance, Deputies, in dealing with them?
On a point of order, may I ask if it is in order for the Minister to suggest that a Member is casting reflections on an individual member of the Minister's staff, whereas what is being questioned is the Minister's responsibility for her own Department? May I ask the Ceann Comhairle who has heard the exchanges if he would rule on the issue?
Let us not waste this precious Priority Questions time. The procedure in the House is that the Minister is responsible——
It is quite clear that Ireland was never——
Deputy Bruton never likes the truth.
I believe what is in black and white on the list. Ireland does not appear on the list.
Question No. 6 please.
That is the Deputy's problem; he does not like to hear the truth.
The Minister is making this up; after the question was put down——
Question No. 6 please.
I take very grave exception. A copy of the reply will be forwarded and any direct evidence the Deputy wishes to have in relation to our attendance at the meetings will also be forwarded directly to him.
I believe the OECD rather than the Minister in this case.
I shall furnish the Deputy with the dates in September on which the gentleman of whom I speak attended the meetings——
Not the networks.
——and the contributions to same. What the Deputy has said is outrageous——
The Minister would say black was white.
