Enda Kenny
Question:7 Mr. Kenny asked the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications if he will outline the Government's position on the development of the rail system in Ireland; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Rail Transport System.
Joe Sherlock
Question:19 Mr. Sherlock asked the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications if his attention has been drawn to the statement made by the chairman of CIE, following the publication of the company's recent report, that our railway system was in urgent need of fresh capital from the Government; if he intends to respond to the request; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ivor Callely
Question:31 Mr. Callely asked the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications if he will outline the future role and development for the State rail system, particularly in the Dublin area, as part of our overall national transport policy; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Bernard J. Durkan
Question:61 Mr. Durkan asked the Minister for Tourism, Transport and Communications if he has satisfied himself that Iarnród Éireann have sufficient resources available to them to develop a proper commuter rail service with particular reference to the needs of commuters within a 50-mile radius of Dublin city; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 7, 19, 31 and 61 together.
I have repeatedly acknowledged the role of the railway system in our national transport infrastructure. However, investment in the railways must proceed against the background of the availability of State resources.
State support for railways over the years has been very significant. For example, since 1980 total State day-to-day subvention for rail services provided by CIE has amounted to over £940 million. In addition, capital investment of over £228 million has been made in the railways by CIE in the same period bringing the total to almost £1.2 billion in just over a decade. In view of this and the future very substantial investment required, I would like to take this opportunity to announce that I have decided to conduct a full and urgent strategic study of the future investment needs and resources available for our railway systems.
As far as investment in commuter rail services for the Dublin area is concerned, I have approved investment by CIE of up to £18 million on the provision of new railcars for use on a number of suburban lines in the Dublin area. Iarnród Éireann is currently examining a number of options for the acquisition of these new railcars. I expect to receive proposals in this regard from the board shortly. This investment will enable Iarnród Éireann to improve the quality of their suburban rail service in the Dublin area.
In addition, a number of possible public transport investment proposals for the Dublin area, including the re-opening of the former Harcourt Street line, improvement of commuter rail services for the west of the city and the development of a light rail network to serve the Dublin area generally, are under consideration by my Department at present. Progress on such proposals will depend on, among other things, the availability of finance from a range of sources including EC Structural Funds and private sector funding also.
Would the Minister agree that what is needed is not a strategic study but a commitment that on all inter-city routes out of Dublin he will seek to upgrade the lines to a continuous welded rail track — as opposed to a jointed track — which can cater for speeds of 90 miles per hour and, for example, on the Dublin-Galway route, reduce travelling time from two and a half hours to two hours? What is required is an additional £5 million over ten years. Will the Minister now give that commitment to the House?
That would be £5 million per annum in addition to very substantial sums.
In addition to £45 million.
I share the Deputy's view that there is a need to upgrade the inter-city routes particularly. They have increasingly to compete with substantially improved roads, motorway standards in many cases. The railway also has to compete with cheaper and cheaper bus fares between inter-city routes. It has a difficult job to do and does require substantial investment in the entire system.
Will the Minister give a commitment?
A strategic study which I will undertake will look at the inter-city routes as well as the other routes which are very important also.
I am calling Deputy Callely whose Question No. 31 refers. If the Deputy is not offering I will call Deputy Today O'Sullivan.
(Interruptions.)
As a number of Deputies are offering I will try to facilitate them if they will please be brief.
For the benefit of Deputy Callely, could I ask the Minister to give us some details about the Dublin-Belfast line?
Deputy Yates is being disorderly. I have called Deputy O'Sullivan.
May I ask the Minister if the investment in the rail network will extend to the Cork-Cobh line in view of the fact that in recent days two trips had to be cancelled because a generator in use on the Cork-Cobh line had to be put into use on the Cork-Dublin line? Students, who had purchased commuter tickets, had to transfer to the bus service and pay an extra fare in the process. May I further ask the Minister if he has had discussions with his colleagues, the Ministers for Energy and Labour, to prepare contingency plans in case there is an ESB strike in the coming weeks? Such a strike would disrupt the Dublin DART system.
That is a separate matter altogether.
The Cork-Cobh line will be included in the strategic study which I propose to undertake. It would be of help if CIE decided to allocate some of the new rail coaches, which I have authorised, to this line but the House and the country should be aware of one fact, that is, that there are 1,500 miles of railway track, 60 per cent, or 900 miles, of which is more than 50 years old. Deputies on all sides of the House would like us to examine coolly as a matter of urgency the scale of investment required and where it should be directed. That is an issue which this or any future Government will face for some time and it is not one on which we should play politics given the scale of investment required.
If there is a problem, never play politics.
Does the Minister accept that there is an urgent necessity to make a proper allocation to meet the needs of commuters living within a 50 mile radius of Dublin city who require regular rail services? Is he now prepared to seek the Structural Funds which are available to develop a proper commuter rail service within a 50 miles radius of Dublin city which would be of benefit to all concerned?
I have said publicly many times that I am fully committed to developing an urban rail system, preferably a light rail system, for the city and county of Dublin as a matter of urgency, but the House must not delude itself. EC Structural Funds will only go so far. I have indicated the size, the extent and the scale of the problem and that there is a need to look, strategically, at railway systems before committing Irish taxpayers to investing in the railway system.
Is the Minister aware that Irish Rail are cannibalising some provincial lines to provide tracks which are needed in other areas, and they have to borrow carriages and trains from Northern Ireland Railways and that the speed limits have been reduced on most lines, in particular on the Sligo line, for safety reasons? Why is it that when trains are travelling at a faster rate everywhere else in the world the complete opposite is happening here? The last thing we need is a further strategic study. Would the Minister therefore stand up in this House to tell us that if we are to have a light rail system in Dublin private sector investment will be required?
I did ask for brevity. A number of other Deputies are still offering and I want to facilitate them but I am afraid that I shall have to go on to another question.
Is the Minister telling us, for the first time, that if we are to have a light rail system in the city private enterprise will have to have an input?
I would envisage some private sector investment in such a system if I can attract it.
What if the Minister cannot?
I repeat to the Deputy that during the past ten years the Irish taxpayer has invested £1.2 billion in the railway system and that is the reason I am looking for private sector investment for any light rail system which might emerge in the future. Speed limits have been imposed for safety reasons. The trains are, however, safe. Irish Rail recover one-third of the cost from passengers while the other two-thirds is made up by the taxpayer.
To follow up the Minister's earlier reply in response to a question on commuter services in the greater Dublin area, I should say, first, that I welcome his commitment in the matter but I was concerned, when he mentioned specific areas, that he did not mention an undertaking which he gave to me in the House in November last year——
He has forgotten about that.
——that a portion of the allocation would be used in displacing rolling stock in the Greystones shuttle. That is a very important issue. Indeed I have tabled three parliamentary questions on it. I am fearful that Iarnród Éireann are trying to renege on undertakings given by the Minister.
New matter is being injected.
As I said, I have approved investment by CIE of £18 million on the provision of new rail cars for use on the suburban lines in the Dublin area. I will certainly make them aware of the Deputy's interest in this line and the possibility of using some of the new rail cars there.
Deputy Farrelly. Can we come to a conclusion? Four Deputies are still offering.
Ivor missed the train earlier.
I was catching my breath.
The Chair called the Deputy.
The Deputy was using the wrong timetable.
In his reply the Minister informed us that £1.2 billion of taxpayers' money has been spent on the railways. We should be honest and admit that this money has not been spent in maintaining and upgrading the railways but rather allocated as subsidies.
Questions, please.
May I ask the Minister if, in the study, he will consider what impact and effect line closures would have on the tourism business?
I will certainly do that. The portion of the £1.2 billion spent on the capital side was £228 million.
The gap is quite considerable. If I had not asked the question people would not know the difference.
It was in my reply.
Will the Minister give an unequivocal commitment to keep the Dublin-Sligo line open? As the Minister is aware, it is under threat.
As I said earlier, I will make every effort to make sure that no line is closed. All these decisions will have to be made having regard to the funds available to CIE. They will have to decide where the funds available to them should be allocated.
Deputy Callely.
He got the train.
I thank the Minister for his comprehensive reply to my question on the future role and development of the State rail system——
The Deputy did not hear the reply.
I was in the corridor at the time. I am pleased to note that £18 million is to be made available for the purchase of new carriages. May I ask the Minister if, in the comprehensive study which will be undertaken shortly, each DART station will be looked at given that the success of the DART system has had consequences for the existing road structure? In a recent parliamentary question——
I did ask for brevity.
Where do the DART stations come into this question?
Difficulties are being experienced on the DART system. I would ask the Minister therefore to look at each DART station in the study that is to be undertaken, in particular the stations on the north side.
The Deputy has made his point.
The answer is yes.
(Interruptions.)
Please, Deputy Yates; the Chair does its best. Sometimes it is very hard to please everyone.
I am delighted that my question has aroused such interest.
Your non-question.
Deputy Callely has raised this matter with me on a number of occasions, so I am very much aware of his interest in it. I will do everything I possibly can to be of assistance.
Is the Minister aware that, despite the investment of £1.2 billion in the structure during the years, the Sligo line is in a disastrous, hazardous and calamitous condition so much so that I would be afraid to use it this evening for fear that I might never get back to my constituents?
Deputy Matty Brennan will look after them.
Is the Minister aware also that we cannot await the outcome of a study given that the line could be closed in the meantime? In view of this, would he repeat the promise he made to Sligo Chamber of Commerce that the Sligo line would be given priority in allocating funds to CIE this year?
Sligo will not have to await the outcome of any study. I have arranged a meeting this evening with the chief executive of Iarnród Éireann to discuss what we might do in ensuring that this line continues to be developed.
Give them a cheque.
If I get an opportunity I will report on it.
A final question from Deputy McCormack.
(Interruptions.)
Is the Minister aware that the Galway-Dublin line which I use frequently, is being run down, that there are extreme delays, that confidence in the service is being destroyed and that as a result passenger numbers on the line are on the decrease? Will the Minister allay the fears of many people in the west that the building of the new station in Athlone on the east side of the Shannon will mean that the line from Athlone to Galway will be discontinued if passenger numbers continue to fall because of the inadequate service?
The Galway-Dublin railway line is an inter-city line and has a very solid future. I do not know of any proposals or thinking which would interfere with it. Indeed we are trying to develop it as best we can.
I am delighted to hear it.
Iarnród Éireann have their budget funds and I do not want to be second-guessing them in relation to where stations should be or where trains should stop.
I welcome the news that at last the Minister will have a meeting with the rail authorities on the importance of the Dublin-Sligo line and their problems——
I am waiting for the Deputy to ask a question.
Will the Minister guarantee that a sum of £5 million will be spent between now and this time next year on the Dublin-Sligo line? That is the kind of news which the people in Mullingar, Longford, Carrick-on-Shannon, Boyle, Sligo and indeed south Dublin want to hear.
The Deputy should not worry about south Dublin. I know what they want. As I said earlier, I called in the chief executive for a full discussion this afternoon and I will be as helpful as I possibly can.
That is good news.
A final, brief question from Deputy Byrne.
Will the Minister agree that the reason for this debate today——
This is Question Time.
Will the Minister agree that the problems of the railways are because of the total under-investment in the line? Will the Minister recognise that the capital investment in the line reduces maintenance costs and, therefore, that it is good, sound economics? Is the Minister aware that there is a demand for using the railway line in Kildare, the Maynooth-Dublin section, but that there is massive overcrowding and breakdowns because of the state of the line, engines and carriages? Has he any proposals to give a better service at that section where there is a public demand?
I will bring the latter matter to the attention of Iarnród Éireann because it is an operational problem. With regard to investment, I think that a sum of £228 million over the decade is clearly very substantial on top of the £940 million by way of subvention.
It clearly is not sufficient.
We will do as well as we can in that regard, subject to funds being available.