Dáil Éireann debate -
Friday, 10 Jul 1992

Vol. 422 No. 6

Order of Business.

The Tánaiste

It is proposed to take Nos. 8, 9 and 10 (Vote 3 and Supplementary Estimate in relation thereto and Votes 4, 5 and 6).

It is further proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders that: (1) Nos. 8 and 9 shall be decided without debate; (2) in the case of Vote 3, the Supplementary Estimate in relation thereto and Votes 4, 5 and 6, the following arrangements shall apply: (i) the estimates shall be moved and debated together and decided by one question which shall be put from the Chair not later than 4.30 p.m. and if a division is demanded on such question, it shall be taken forthwith; (ii) a general debate may arise thereon; (iii) speeches in the course of the debate shall not exceed 20 minutes; and (iv) the Tánaiste shall be called on not later than 4.10 p.m. to make a speech in reply and (3) the Dáil at its rising today shall adjourn until 12.00 noon on Wednesday, 7 October 1992.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal that Nos. 8 and 9 be decided without debate satisfactory and agreed?

Mr. Spring

I seek some clarification in relation to No. 8. Perhaps the Tánaiste could inform the House if it is the intention that the registration of Members' interest will be compulsory, and is it intended that it must be in place by 1 September?

The Tánaiste

It is not to be in place before 1 September.

Proinsias De Rossa

Is it compulsory?

An Ceann Comhairle

I take it that it is agreed that Nos. 8 and 9 shall be decided without debate.

Are the proposals for dealing with Vote 3 and the Supplementary Estimate and Votes 4, 5 and 6 satisfactory and agreed? Agreed.

Is the proposal with regard to the resumption of an Dáil after the summer recess agreed?

Mr. J. Bruton

I wish to propose an amendment to insert the following after "1992": "on condition that the Government enter into discussions with the other parties over the recess to agree before 7 October on a comprehensive committee system in this House which will guarantee that every section of every Bill can be dealt with section by section and every subhead of every Estimate of expenditure can be dealt with, subhead by subhead without artificial time constraints."

An Ceann Comhairle

The amendment which the Deputy has proposed does not seem to be related to the proposal for the resumption of the House.

Mr. J. Bruton

It is. Perhaps I could explain the relationship in a way that would satisfy the Chair. The position is that most legislation that comes before us here is not properly discussed in committee because of lack of time and most Estimates that come before us are not discussed subhead by subhead because of lack of time. Obviously, that calls into question the House taking such a long break. However, if we had a proper committee system whereby every Estimate could be debated subhead by subhead and every Bill section by section, without time constraints, off the floor of this House, then there would be no problem with the late resumption date.

I make this proposal in a constructive spirit.

An Ceann Comhairle

I would prefer a more precise amendment to the motion concerning the resumption date.

Mr. J. Bruton

With the utmost respect, Sir, it is not a question of the Chair's preference but of whether the amendment is in order.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Chair is concerned about the procedure of this House. The Deputy has talked about a great many other matters concerning the establishment of committees etc. I am concerned about whether the resumption date proposed here is satisfactory.

Mr. J. Bruton

I am proposing an addendum to a motion. There are well established precedents in this House to allow addenda to be added to motions. This motion is the same as any other motion coming before this House and I respectfully suggest that my addendum is entirely in order.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am again offering the Deputy an alternative to putting his addendum to the motion. The proposal he makes is so unwieldy that I cannot regard it as an amendment in the proposal sense of the word to the proposal before the House.

Mr. J. Bruton

Sir——

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy Bruton. You have already made two speeches.

Mr. Spring

I certainly think the suggested date of resumption, 7 October 1992, is a step in the right direction. Over the past number of years we have sought to resume before the end of October, which was the norm.

The Tánaiste will recall that I raised the matter yesterday of the decisions that will be made in the course of the next few days by the Tribunal of Inquiry into the Beef Industry. Have the Government considered recalling the Dáil in the event of the High Court or Supreme Court deciding that the wishes of this House are not to be afforded, namely, that the tribunal will not be allowed to inquire into what they wish to inquire into and what they were instructed to inquire into at the behest of this House.

An Ceann Comhairle

I have allowed Deputy Spring some latitude but he is bringing in some extraneous matters that are on the fringe of matters that are deemed sub judice.

Mr. Spring

With respect, Sir, rather than being extraneous, they are matters which go to the root of the purpose of this House.

An Ceann Comhairle

We are dealing with the question of the resumption date.

Mr. Spring

I wish the Tánaiste to clarify whether the Government considered these matters.

The Tánaiste

I can assure Deputy Spring that he can go to gaze fondly on Mount Brandon, confident that the combined and deep wisdom of the Government will be able to deal with any such situation.

Mr. Rabbitte

A cloud of hot air.

Mr. Spring

I used to think the Tánaiste was a serious politician.

Proinsias De Rossa

I wish to propose an amendment to Item No. 3. I propose that we substitute "Wednesday, 9 September 1992" for "Wednesday, 7 October 1992". There was a specific promise in the revised Programme for Government that the Dáil would rise in or around the middle of July and recommence in late September. We are rising on 10 July and it seems to me that if we return on 9 September 1992, we would be adjourning for the number of weeks the Government had in mind when they made this promise in the revised Programme for Government. The Government should take on board the very serious——

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is embarking upon a speech.

Proinsias De Rossa

I am explaining why we should resume earlier.

An Ceann Comhairle

I am putting the Deputy's amendment.

Proinsias De Rossa

The Government should take on board the cynicism about what appears to be our long holidays.

Minister of State at the Department of the Taoiseach (Mr. Dempsey)

The Deputy may be on holidays.

Minister of State at the Department of the Gaeltacht (Mr. Gallagher)

We do not work a five-day week, we work a seven-day week.

Proinsias De Rossa

I am asking the Government to bear in mind the extreme cynicism among the public about what appears to be the long holidays. I think it is time we reorganised the system.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy has made his point.

I am putting the question in respect of Deputy De Rossa's amendment in the following manner: "That the words proposed to be deleted stand".

I think the question is carried.

Proinsias De Rossa

Vótail.

An Ceann Comhairle

Will the Members who are claiming a division please rise?

Deputies De Rossa, Byrne, Gilmore, McCartan and Rabbitte rose.

An Ceann Comhairle

As fewer than ten Members have risen, I declare the question carried. In accordance with Standing Order 59, the names of the Deputies dissenting will be recorded in the Journal of the Proceedings of the Dáil.

I now put the question again: "That the Dáil at its rising today shall adjourn until 12 noon on Wednesday, 7 October, 1992." Agreed? Agreed.