Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 15 Oct 1992

Vol. 423 No. 6

International Agreement on Navigation System: Statements (Resumed).

Mr. McCartan

On behalf of the Democratic Left, I welcome the proposals made by the Minister of State at the Department of the Marine. The agreement we are discussing represents a very important milestone in the development of sea navigation around our coast and in the wider seas.

The agreement is welcome for a number of reasons. It represents Ireland, with its nearest strategic and geographic neighbours working into a system which will operate throughout the waters on the north-west coast of Europe and particularly, the waters surrounding the Irish coast, in terms of naval, shipping or fishing activities.

I welcome the fact that the system, which will be land based, will prove to be far more reliable and available than the current satellite system to which we have resource at present. It is particularly significant that the Minister of State has been so forthcoming and frank in regard to this matter. The satellite system which has been available up to now in the waters concerned was under the direct control of the US marine and naval services but it was capable of diversion at times of strategic importance, militarily and otherwise, for the United States. That is best illustrated by the reference in the Minister's speech to the Gulf War when the satellite system was simply summarily and unilaterally deflected and directed towards the needs and resources of the host nation, namely, America.

The importance of this development, then, is that Ireland will have a system which will be available at all times and in all weather but which will also be under our control. The strategic importance of that cannot be lost on any of us, particularly those concerned, as I am, with fishing services here. I represent a unique constituency in some respects. I am based in Dublin and my constituency includes one of our most important fishery posts, namely, Howth. Therefore, the importance of this service is brought home to me on a daily basis by my constituents.

Another very important aspect of this arrangement from a technical point of view, is that we will be moving away from the Decca system. The Minister has graphically outlined the shortcomings of that system in terms of navigational aid to shipping. While the Decca system has not been in the use for very long, it is almost a "boathold" name in the same way as many other systems are household names. The Decca system has served us well, but it had many shortcomings. Those shortcomings will be addressed to a large extent in the development of the LORAN C system.

The opportunity presented by this debate, nevertheless, raises a number of questions. We are building the network becoming part of this important scheme and taking it directly under our control but, obviously, its efficency will apply only to the extent to which vessels use the system. The Department must take a far more stringent line in that regard. We cannot allow the system to develop on a voluntary basis. The overall capital cost of the system for a fishing vessel or for a sea vessel of any nature, are minuscule, in the order of £500. However, the cost to the State in providing air/sea rescue service is colossal and such cost is often added to substantially by the inability of the rescuers to accurately pinpoint the location of vessel or, more particularly, by vessels not being able to indicate accurately where they are located. Valuable time, energy and resources are expended in searching for such vessels when, in fact, beleaguered vessels could be more easily pinpointed. Will the Minister ensure that from the time of the establishment of this service — which, I believe, will be around 1995 — all vessels using Irish waters and registered in Irish ports will be obliged to use the LORAN C device? If the cost, comparable to the size of the vessel, is too great then vessels which are over a certain size should be obliged to carry and use the LORCAN C device. It is a very useful piece of equipment. The cost which seamen would be obliged to expend on such a device would not be exorbitant and it would enable them to pinpoint quickly and accurately their location and transmit that information to the rescuers. In poor weather conditions, vessels would be able to plot their way home without recourse to any other chart or optical service. Therefore, the Department should consider the compulsory use by fishing vessels of this system once it is in place.

Ireland will be investing heavily in the system. A Deputy who spoke earlier referred to the fact that we got a good financial deal. In that respect, I would like to ask the Minister why he uses the punt to indicate the cost. I have the more universal dollar figure. He suggested that £1.56 million, or 8 per cent of the total cost of the system, will be funded by Ireland. Holland will contribute 5 per cent, 3 per cent less than what is contributed by Ireland. I appreciate that we as a nation have a very large coastal area and we have more extensive waters available to us than have some of our European partners but, nevertheless, regard must be had to the size of the fleets of the countries involved. In that regard Holland, with its ports of Rotterdam and elsewhere, have much greater fleets than we have. I wonder why the figures ultimately agreed upon do not reflect the size of the shipping and fishing fleets available to nation members.

In terms of membership, I would ask the Minister why our neighbouring country, Britain, is not involved in the agreement? How will the services provided by Trinity House and other navigational services provided by Britain, which have been so important to navigation in Irish waters, integrate into the overall navigational systems that will be in place in Irish waters and elsewhere? It seems that we, together with the other partners to this agreement, are taking a different direction in this whole navigational debate. It is important to know whether we are going on an entirely different path from that of the British. Will the Minister comment on the proposals with regard to developments generally in that area?

As we are uniting with countries whose coastal lines border the North Sea there is need to extend the North Sea agreement, not just in regard to navigation in the North Sea but in respect of all other uses of the North Sea and the way it is regulated and controlled under that agreement, to include the Irish Sea. Alternatively, a similar agreement should be put in place by the contiguous nations to the Irish Sea for the management of its waters.

Many Deputies who contributed to this debate spoke about difficulties with regard to submarine traffic, which endangers fishing vessels and other vessels, and the increased dangers in our waters from the conveyance of plutonium. One of the most effective ways of addressing these problems is to establish an international agreement for the management of the Irish Sea, similar to the agreement put in place by the Baltic and other nations with regard to the North Sea — we are observers at North Sea Conference deliberations. This is a development that we must advocate if we are to secure the environmental integrity and safety of the Irish Sea for all its users.

Like other Deputies, I would ask the Minister of State, given that the previous system was an integral part of the US military and naval system, whether there are any residual military requirements of participants in the agreement. The agreement brings home to us the strategic location of Ireland on the north-west coast of Europe, which is of particular importance. I would ask the Minister whether there is any military agreement or understanding with the Irish nation as a result of this development.

This is an important development in maritime safety. In bringing into play this system, with all its advantages, as outlined by the Minister, there will be increased development of Ireland as a maritime nation. I hope the Government will adopt the aggressive role necessary to protect our sea fisheries and develop our sea fishing industry and fleet generally. It is regrettable that we have not exploited to any serious degree the great natural resource that exists around our coast. I hope that this development will in some way engender a realisation and an awareness in Government and abroad that we have a very valuable resource that could be developed to the benefit of everybody. I support the motion.

Mr. Garland

I would like to make a few brief comments on this agreement. On behalf of the Green Party, Comhaontas Glas, I add my support to the agreement. It is another example of international co-operation, which all of us welcome. Any measure which ensures the safety of the lives of sea-faring people in our own and in foreign vessels which ply our waters, is to be commended. There have been, and perhaps always will be, horrifying maritime disasters involving loss of life. Due to the tremendous power of the sea we will never be totally free of these disasters but we should do as much as is humanly possible to prevent them. A system such as this will go some way towards making the sea safer.

Not only should we ensure the safety of people but we should also be concerned about safety to the environment and to our wildlife, which has been seriously damaged in the last few years, particularly by oil spillages from the Torrey Canyon and, in more recent times the Exxon Valdez. We have a duty to further generations to protect our sea environment. We also have a duty to care for animals so that they can live their lives and procreate in a natural way. They are of inestimable benefit to us because without the animal kingdom man would be a devalued person, at least in spirit.

Minister of State at the Department of the Marine (Mr. Gallagher)

Ar an gcéad dul síos ba mhaith liom mo bhuíochas a chur in iúl do na Teachtaí a ghlac páirt san díospóireacht tábhachtach seo maidir leis an cheist idirnáisiúnta, agus gabhaim buíochas don Teach agus do na páirtithe éagsúla atá sásta glacadh leis seo.

I should like to thank the Deputies who contributed to the debate in relation to the LORAN C navigation system and to express my deep appreciation to them. This system — indeed any of the systems such as Decca or the GPS — are very much intertwined with the safety of lives at sea. Deputy Gerry O'Sullivan referred to Slánú and the search and rescue agencies. The Irish Marine Emergency Service was set up in 1991 following the recommendations in the review of the air-sea rescue services. Those involved in the west coast search and rescue committee played an important role in this. The IMES are responsible for the operational aspects of all types of marine emergency, including search and rescue, sea and coastal pollution, shipwrecks and responses to casualties. At present work is under way on the establishment of a new IMES communications centre for the Department's headquarters in Dublin.

Members referred to the various agencies and I should also like to pay tribute to those involved in search and rescue, particularly the coast, cliff and rescue service, the RNLI, the MRCC in Shannon and the coast radio stations. I should also like to pay tribute to the crews of the Dauphin, which is based at Finner and the Sikorski helicopter, which is based at Shannon. It is important to note that the Sikorski has recently flown its 186th mission. This service was introduced in July 1991 and since then 120 lives have been saved; in 1991 a further 139 rescue missions were undertaken by the Air Corps and by rescue services based at Finner and Baldonnel, resulting in 54 lives being saved. The services of the coast radio station at Valentia, Malin Head, the marine rescue co-ordination centre at Shannon and volunteer groups to which I referred are now integrated in the IMES.

Before I answer specific questions I should like to refer to the GMDSS, the IMO's global maritime distress and safety system which has come into force in Ireland for cargo ships of 300 tonnes or more and indeed for pasenger ships. The GMDSS will be introduced on a phased basis between now and 1993 and ships will be required to carry specialised radio communications equipment, depending on the area in which they operate.

In regard to Deputy Deasy's contribution, two negatives do not make a positive and I will not have an opportunity to refer to his various points in relation to the industry because I do not have time and it would also be out of order. However, I congratulate Deputy Deasy on his appointment as spokesman for the Marine. From the years I spent in Dunmore East, prior to my election to the Dáil, I know of his deep concern and interest and I wish him well. He asked me to outline the advantages and deficiencies of the three systems. Very briefly, the GPS is a military system controlled by the US Department of Defense, and is subject to interruption. We cannot accept this; in fact it was switched off at very short notice between 22-24 November and from 29 November to 1 December 1991. Of course this system is available to all who have receivers and it is used by many but we are not happy because it is a military system. We are a neutral country and it could have implications for our neutrality. There are no side effects in relation to the LORAN C system, it is a civil system and has a much longer range without any interruptions. It is more suited to our country than the Decca system.

A number of the Deputies referred to the activities of submarines. A resolution was adopted at the IMO in relation to this; there was a reference to the Irish Sea but in any area where there is a lot of fishing or shipping, submarines should travel on the surface. The same applies to territorial water and we shall continue our efforts in the Department of the Marine, as a member of the IMO, to try to ensure that this will be done. There have been too many incidents of this kind, particularly in the Irish Sea, and a number of our fishing vessels have suffered as a result. If submarines travelled on the surface there would not be a difficulty.

Deputy Gerry O'Sullivan asked about the advantages of the Decca system. It is a short range system and much more expensive than the LORAN C system. Even more important it gives poor coverage in various parts of the country, particularly in the south-west and south-east. He was interested in the UK and why they were not part of the LORAN C navigation system. The United Kingdom took part in early negotiations on the establishment of the LORAN C system but they withdrew prior to completion of negotiations at a time when the contract with Decca became due for renewal. Under her new contract with Decca all stations, including one in my own area, Dunglow, County Donegal, will be automated; the remaining Irish stations have already been automated. The contract will last until the year 2014 but there is also an opt-out clause which may be exercised by 1998. In the meantime the UK authorities are keeping very closely in touch with developments within the LORAN C system in north-west Europe and the North Atlantic. Of course it is also important to note that, while they are not party to this agreement or system, they will be in a position to get LORAN C to within 50 metres of accuracy. We can state categorically that there will not be any operational problems as far as that is concerned. There is a phase-in period of two years and we are quite certain that we will have the better system. I have no doubt that the UK will be anxious to participate in this agreement sometime in the future. It is interesting to note that Iceland were very deeply involved in negotiations. Although they dropped out, they have now changed their position and are anxious to renegotiate with LORAN C.

Deputy McCartan spoke about the cost and asked why Ireland should contribute 5 per cent when Holland would contribute only some 3 per cent. Perhaps I did not make the position absolutely clear in my opening remarks. I wish now to make it clear that the Netherlands will contribute 50 per cent of the cost of another station as well as 5 per cent of the cost of the Irish station, while 8 per cent of the cost of the Irish station will be contributed by Ireland. I am not absolutely clear as to the reason the cost is quoted in punts. I can only assume that the punt has been one of the strongest currencies in the western world and perhaps there is anxiety that we pay in Irish money rather than in sterling or American dollars. That could be advantageous for the other countries. That is a matter of detail, and I am afraid that I do not have good reasons to explain the position.

Deputy McCartan also expressed fears in relation to the military aspect and possible side effects. I can state categorically that there will be absolutely no side effects from our involvement with LORAN C. I point out that an adequate period of some two years will be provided for the transition from Decca to LORAN C.

I hope that I have answered the questions raised by Deputies. Regrettably, the order of the House does not give me the opportunity to respond to several issues raised by Deputy Deasy, Deputy Blaney and Deputy O'Sullivan. That is not to say that I have not recognised all of the issues raised as being extremely serious.

Reference was made to the total allowable catch, which is a vitally important issue. I am well aware of the difficulties faced by our fishermen. Both myself and the Minister shall continue to represent the interests of the Irish fisherman at Council level. The 1983 Common Fisheries Policy is being reviewed in 1993. Discussions are taking place between now and the end of the year. We have an opportunity to try to obtain a better deal for our fishermen. In the seventies and the early eighties our industry was not as well developed as it is now and we started from a very low, narrow base. It is my hope that the Commission and our colleagues within the Council will recognise this fact and reverse the position. I thank Deputies for their reference to the Minister's initiative in taking the matter to the European Court. It was important that the Minister did that. We cannot allow ourselves to be constrained by our tonnage. We want to develop our industry in order to ensure that our young people, many of whom are unemployed, have an opportunity to make a livelihood in the industry.

I thank Deputies for their contributions and I thank you, a Leas-Cheann Comhairle, for your forbearance.