Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 19 May 1993

Vol. 431 No. 1

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Toxic Waste Incinerator.

Eamon Gilmore

Question:

14 Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for the Environment if, in the light of his interview with The Irish Times of 11 May 1993, a specific site has been selected for the proposed toxic waste incinerator; the steps, if any, that are being taken to assess the potential safety risks arising from such an incinerator; if he has any plans to promote the phasing out of processing which results in toxic waste in order to reduce the need for such an incinerator; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Avril Doyle

Question:

22 Mrs. Doyle asked the Minister for the Environment his views on whether a national toxic waste incinerator is necessary given that 60 per cent of the feed stock, organo-halogens will be phased out by the year 2000.

Minister for the Environment (Mr. M. Smith)

I propose to take Questions Nos. 14 and 22 together.

It has been the intention at all stages that a central hazardous waste incinerator would be provided by a private sector operator who would be responsible for selecting the location subject to the necessary planning and other permissions. A facility would have to be regulated according to the highest environmental standards, particularly having regard to the draft EC Directive on incineration of hazardous wastes. Public safety and environmental factors would arise for assessment as part of the EIA process.

My Department recently developed a number of initiatives to assist industrial waste prevention and reduction. These include a study of clean technologies commisioned from international consultants and the establishment of an information centre for industry. However, it is widely recognised that waste prevention measures of this kind can only make a partial contribution to the management of hazardous wastes.

Organo-halogens do not represent 60 per cent, but on current estimates some 16 per cent, of hazardous waste streams arising for incineration in Ireland. While control measures at EC level and under the action plan of the Oslo and Paris Commissions will reduce the production and use of certain organo-halogens, these measures will not decisively affect Irish hazardous waste quantities.

Mr. Gilmore

Two questions arise from the Minister's reply. The previous Government sought submissions from those wishing to establish a toxic waste incinerator and had narrowed the field down to five. Are those five submissions still live or is it the Minister's intention to invite new submissions? Will he also indicate what sites are being considered by his Department for the location of a toxic waste incinerator?

Mr. M. Smith

In response to the first part of the Deputy's question, a number of the original proposals are still live and are being followed up at present——

Mr. Gilmore

How many?

Mr. M. Smith

——by new interests who are examining how a sophisticated and safe method of disposal of hazardous wastes might be effected. Clearly the question of the location of possible sites will be a matter for the private sector operator and I have no information, official or unofficial, on this matter.

Mr. Allen

Does the Minister agree that a number of ancient, overloaded and inefficient incinerators are emitting toxic and dangerous fumes? Will he further agree that the absence of a national waste policy and a decision on a centralised site is seriously hindering the development of our chemical and pharmaceutical industry?

Mr. M. Smith

The need for an early decision on the incineration of hazardous waste is essential. This was referred to and endorsed in the Culliton report which, at certain times, is the bible of different parties in this House. In the National Development Plan it was decided that the Government would address this question and provision has been made for grant aiding that facility.

I accept there are incineration facilities, in particular clinical incinerators, which require drastic change. The facilities in the major chemical and pharmaceutical industries meet the most rigorous conditions but my fear is that the waste from incinerators in smaller establishments, colleges, science laboratories in secondary schools and garages gets into the water without the people concerned knowing about it. I want to address that problem. I have publicly questioned our policy on waste and where we might find a solution to the problem of waste disposal. We cannot in the foreseeable future depend on getting derogations to continue to export the problem to other countries.

Mrs. Doyle

Will the Minister quantify the feedback for such an incinerator in the year 2000? Does that amount justify the construction of a national facility? I accept the principle that each country should look after the disposal of its own toxic waste but the smaller countries may not need individual incinerators, given that we could deal with the problem on a Community basis. With the introduction of clean technology and ECO audits will we have sufficient toxic waste to justify the construction of such a facility in Ireland?

Mr. M. Smith

Certain halogenated materials, including CFCs and halons and methyl chloroform will be eliminated when the new Directive which phases out their use in stages in the years 1994-96 will reduce toxic waste in the Community, but by a very small percentage. It is estimated that this accounts for approximately 2 per cent of waste that can be incinerated which will make a very small difference.

It is estimated that there is about 60,000 tonnes of toxic waste each year. I have looked at the situation in the Netherlands and Denmark, countries with a very high environmental profile, and tonnage of this volume is sufficent to make the provision of a toxic waste incinerator an economic development. I have a problem with unidentified toxic waste but the real problem is that society does not recognise its extent or whereabouts.

I have referred to a number of establishments which generate toxic waste, they are small elements of the problem. Deputy Bruton referred earlier to contamination of the drinking water systems and the leachate from landfill sites is one of the causes. At present waste product which may be toxic is disposed of in landfill sites without the knowledge of the local authority or the monitoring authorities because if there is a breakdown in the industry the waste which may be toxic is disposed of in a landfill site, which is unsuitable. I want to bring this problem into the public domain. There is no such thing as a risk free environment. If we continue our present procedures I want to reduce the risks to the greatest possible extent.

I appreciate the support from the political parties, apart from the Government parties, in trying to sort out this problem in a way compatible with the development of our industry and which does not cut across our efforts to introduce clean technology or for recycling or reusing materials. The Netherlands which has made great efforts in recycling or reusing materials, admits it can reduce the waste by about 5 per cent with the potential to reduce it to 10 per cent by the year 2000, that gives an indication of the extent of the waste that still remains to be dealt with and that is what we are trying to do.

Ms. Keogh

I will try to be brief but a great many questions arise from the Minister's reply. The Minister knows my position on the toxic waste incinerator. Are we talking of providing a toxic waste incinerator before we introduce the waste disposal Bill and the mandatory auditing of waste? It is amazing that we are going down the path of developing the concept of incinerating toxic waste as a long term solution to the problem of such waste when we should take the long term view. The Minister referred earlier to the derogation but how long will this derogation apply? Is pressure being applied in relation to it?

Mr. M. Smith

It is incomprehensible that people who are genuinely interested in the environment are quite prepared to transport, on land or sea, toxic waste matter to another country which has a facility they accept is good enough to deal with the waste there but not good enough to deal with it in Ireland. I find it difficult to justify travelling very long distances to resolve a problem in that way. Second, I cannot accept that because we are preparing a waste Bill, which I hope will be before the Dáil in the autumn — we are prevented from discussing in the open how we deal with this problem. I have indicated on a number of occasions its four distinct parameters: first, we advance clean technology, change processes, reduce, minimise and eliminate the problem wherever we can; second, reuse and recycle wherever we can; third, phase out the clinical waste and the problems of 150 units in hospitals around the country. We are facilitating that directive and trying to ensure it is workable and that it operates at the highest standards possible. Fourth, on the question of incineration and generation of energy from the combustion of waste, all technological advances in this area must be used.

Finally, on the question of landfill, where will sites be obtained and can we expect to deposit a continuous volume of waste into landfill? Does the policy relate totally to landfill? A sum of £52 million is spent on waste management at present, There is a great need to ensure that there are fewer landfill sites and that consumers, wholesalers and people in local towns reduce the volume of waste and effort to clean up areas.

Mr. Allen

The Minister is raising questions but he is making no decisions.

Mr. J. Bruton

Is the Minister aware of a problem, particularly in the northern part of my constituency, in regard to the monitoring of possible threats of hazardous waste which is in storage at a particular site pending exportation? Is he satisfied that local authorities have adequate technical resources to monitor this waste and also to monitor transportation of hazardous waste?

Mr. M. Smith

There will never be sufficient technical resources to deal with this problem while waste management is not sufficiently updated and is haphazard, as is the case at present. I do not think Deputy Bruton is asking me to afford technical facilities to monitor a problem which should be solved. A different approach needs to be taken. Perhaps there is sufficient technical advice and services available for waste management and with the changes I propose this problem can be solved.

Mr. J. Bruton

What will happen in the event of an accident occurring?