Vol. 457 No. 3
10 Mr. E. Byrne asked the Minister for Finance the plans, if any, he has for the establishment of a joint task force to facilitate cooperation between the Revenue Commissioners and the Department of Justice for the purpose of tracing profits deriving from drug dealing; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [15234/95]
22 Mr. B. O'Keeffe asked the Minister for Finance the plans, if any, he has to ensure that the Revenue Commissioners target drug barons in this country in view of the fact that they already have the legal power to do so. [11935/95]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 10 and 22 together.
The Revenue Commissioners are already alert to the need to tax profits from illegal activities such as dealing in drugs wherever it is possible to do so. As Deputies are aware, persons such as drug traffickers whose wealth has been derived from illegal activities do not advertise that fact and tend to distance themselves from the ownership of traceable assets, making it difficult to identify them and successfully establish a tax charge.
I understand from the Revenue Commissioners, however, that in those cases where hard information becomes available to Revenue from the Garda, or otherwise, indicating the existence of significant wealth, investigations are undertaken with a view to establishing and collecting tax liability. Even if it is not possible to identify the precise sources of the income, Revenue have powers under the Finance Act, 1983 to tax profits or gains from unlawful or unknown sources as miscellaneous income.
It is open to Revenue, having established a previously undisclosed tax charge, to report the case to the DPP if sufficient evidence of evasion is available to sustain criminal charges. However, the burden of proof to secure a conviction in such cases would be just as onerous as that required for any criminal case undertaken by the gardaí against drug dealers.
I am satisfied that, within their remit of collection and enforcement of tax liabilities, the Revenue Commissioners are taking appropriate steps in relation to the activities to which the Deputies refer.
On 19 July 1995, following proposals made by the Minister for Justice, the Government decided that a joint review be carried out by the Revenue Commissioners and the Garda authorities of certain recommendations made by the Law Reform commission as regards co-operation between the two bodies. The Law Reform Commission's report in question was concerned with the confiscation of the proceeds of crime and in particular with the proceeds of drug trafficking. The two recommendations of the Law Reform Commission to be dealth with are to the effect that the tax laws should be enforced with vigour against drug dealers so as to tax their illegal earnings and there should be greater mutual exchange of information between Revenue and the garda.
It was further decided by Government that the report of this review be submitted to the Government within four months. Preparation of the report is well advanced.
I thank the Minister for his reply but he did not address the kernel of the question posed. I am sure the Minister is aware there is a joint investigation unit comprising officals of the Department of Social Welfare and the Revenue Commissioners, but a unit comprising officials of the Revenue Commissioners and members of the Garda does not exist. Do crime reports in Sunday and daily newspapers make the Minister unhappy? The Revenue Commissioners seem to be intent on only bringing drug criminals into the tax net but not on inquiring into the source of their income. Will he agree that the Revenue Commissioners have power to prosecute criminals for tax evasion and money laundering? Will he agree that the negative image of thugs and gangsters involved in drug trafficking, growing rich in his and my constituencies and the obvious obsene display of wealth in property and cars adds glamour to criminal activity and attracts more people to it? Will he agree on the need for a crucifying blow to dealers, the pushers and the godfathers of crime by publicly humilating them and dragging them from their ill-gotten ivory towers of wealth, their big houses and high powered cars and that the best way to do that is by establishing a task force comprising members of the Garda Síochána and officials of the Revenue Commissioners to speedily de-glamourise criminal activity?
A top level meeting took place between Government Ministers, the Revenue authorities and the Garda Commissioners in July. It would be absolutely erroneous to suggest, as the Deputy has done, that the Revenue Commissioners were blind to and were not concerned with the criminality associated with drug trafficking. I want to restate that it is open to Revenue, having established a previously undisclosed tax charge, to report the case to the Director of Public Prosecutions if sufficient evidence of evasion is available to sustain criminal charges. It must be stated, however, that the burden of proof to secure a conviction in such cases would be just as onerous as that required for any criminal case undertaken by the Garda against drug dealers.
As the Deputy has said, both his and my constituency share the crucifixion of drug trafficking, drug abuse and drug dealing. The Deputy will also be aware that getting evidence that would stand up under rigorous cross-examination from a criminal defence lawyer is different from anecdotal evidence that people are living in their rich ivory towers. If the Deputy has evidence of the kind to which his rhetorical question refers, I invite him to give such evidence, however anecdotal it might be, to the relevant authorities. I am satisfied that the Revenue are working effectively with the Garda on this matter. If the Deputy has evidence to the contrary, I assure him the Revenue would be anxious to be informed of such evidence so that they can move.
I would love to be able to agree with the Minister that everything is being done. Will he comment on newspaper reports that the Garda Síochána has dismissed claims by the Chairman of the Revenue Commissioners of a good working liaison between both forces? Will he comment on the claim that evidence is rarely passed to the Revenue Commissioners by the Garda? Past experience has shown that information passed to the Revenue Commissioners was not investigated.
I do not propose to comment on newspaper reports but I am sure the Revenue have read them. Work is being done and I am aware of what the Deputy has said.
Is the Minister aware that the drug problem has been with us in Ireland for 15 years and that huge wealth has been accumulated by known individuals? We have only to read about their lifestyles in our Sunday newspapers virtually to identify them. Let us not ask if Deputies have got information. The Garda has all the information required. Sunday newspapers columnisits have it, the dogs on the street have it. Is it not unusual in 15 years of drug dealing that not one major drug dealer has been brought to book by the Revenue Commissioners? This is not a new problem. Is there any initiative at Government, Garda management or Revenue Commissioner level — there are dangers for the people concerned — to set up a joint Garda-Revenue unit that can target known individuals whose investments and properties are also known? One of the main reasons for the spiralling drug problem is the huge profits that individuals are making and are getting away with. I ask the Minister to disregard his prepared reply, to get in touch with the Revenue Commissioners, to raise the matter at Cabinet and to set up a joint unit.
I share Deputies' concerns in this regard and I have listened carefully to what they have said. I am informed that such co-operation as is required is already in existence. However, in the light of what the two Deputies have said I will bring to the attention of the relevant authorities the points raised.
I concur with what Deputy Gregory has said. My experience outside the House as an accountant is that if compliant taxpayers had additional assests which appeared out of nowhere they would be investigated inside and out, as Minister of State, Deputy Coveney, who is beside the Minister, can testify. The Minister will be aware from our previous association that I have advocated a joint force as mentioned by Deputy Gregory. It is strange that people who have extraordinary amounts of valuable assets can get away with it. The Minister said criminal proceedings can be brought. Regardless of whether criminal proceedings can be brought, surely our ordinary financial strictures can be imposed on those people as they would be imposed, and judgment sought by the Revenue Commissioners, on compliant taxpayers. Why is the same procedure not applied against people who are outside the tax net? The view of many people, including fellow practioners, is that people who are not in the PAYE system get away with it. I urge the Minister to take on board what Deputies have said and what has been advocated by me both inside and outside Government.
I have heard what the Deputies have said and I share their concerns. I will bring the matter to the attention of the Revenue Commissioners and the Garda.
