Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 14 Nov 1995

Vol. 458 No. 2

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take Nos. 1 and 6.

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the following arrangements shall apply in relation to No. 6 that: (1) the opening statement of a Minister or Minister of State and of the main spokespersons for the Fianna Fáil Party and the Progressive Democrats Party shall not exceed 30 minutes in each case; (2) the statement of each other Member called upon shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case; (3) Members may share time; and (4) a Minister or Minister of State shall be called upon to make a statement in reply.

Private Members' Business shall be No. 16.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Are the proposals for dealing with Statements on item No. 6 agreed? Agreed.

Mr. B. Ahern

Will the Taoiseach allow Government time for a full debate on Northern Ireland next week? We on this side of the House consider it would be appropriate to have a public discussion on how the present impasse can be resolved a week before President Clinton's arrival here when there will be much international focus on this country, bearing in mind that we have not had a full political debate here on Northern Ireland since the emergence of the Framework Document at the beginning of the year. The Taoiseach will recall, from his period as leader of the main Opposition party, that the previous Government always allowed Government time for debates on Northern Ireland in recent years. I reassure the Taoiseach that we are not interested in a vote on this matter and I will go along with whatever can be agreed by way of a motion to be worked out by the respective Whips or by way of statements. I will ask our Whip to talk to the Government Whip later today in this respect.

The Taoiseach

The normal and most prudent way for any request for a debate to be handled is through notice to the Whips. I have not received any notice of this request from Deputy Ahern but, now that I have received notice of it here, I will of course ask the Government Whip to discuss the matter with the Fianna Fáil Whip.

Effectively we have up to an hour's debate on Northern Ireland every week in this House at Question Time since questions on that subject are tabled virtually every week.

Miss Harney

At Question Time today and last week the Taoiseach offered the leaders of the Opposition parties an opportunity of a private briefing on Northern Ireland. I would be happy to accept such briefing but on condition only that it does not preclude me from asking questions in this House. If I can have his assurance on that point, I will be happy to avail of his offer.

In relation to the office of the Director of Public Prosecutions — the need for that office to be accountable to this House having been raised by my party several times here — the irrelevance of this House has been confirmed now that we have become aware that on Friday next the Director of Public Prosecutions proposes to make himself accountable to the public by participating in "Live-line" presented by Marian Finucane to answer questions put to him. Yet, Members of this House are not entitled to ask the Taoiseach any questions about that office or the new legislation granting the DPP immunity from the requirement to appear before the Dáil committees. The Taoiseach should take on board what we have been saying about this office and ensure that the farcical circumstance does not arise in which any member of the public can telephone into a radio programme——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The second matter the Deputy raised is extraneous to the Order of Business.

Miss Harney

——yet Members of this House cannot ask relevant questions. I shall have no other opportunity to raise the matter before Friday next. I have tabled a question to the Taoiseach for next week but that will be too late.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Does the Taoiseach wish to respond to the Deputy's first question?

Miss Harney

The Taoiseach should avail of the opportunity to deal with this matter, thus rendering the Director of Public Prosecutions accountable to this House rather than to Marian Finucane.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy was conveying information rather than seeking it.

Miss Harney

I want an assurance in relation to the private briefing offered, particularly if its acceptance will preclude me from asking questions here. A number of weeks ago when I asked the Taoiseach questions about Northern Ireland, he drew my attention to a private briefing my party had had. Since the Taoiseach raised this matter again today, I want to make it clear I am willing to avail of that briefing provided I am entitled to ask questions on Northern Ireland in this House and am not precluded from asking any question resulting from such briefing.

The Taoiseach

As the Deputy knows, the tabling of questions in this House and their admissibility is ruled on by the Ceann Comhairle, not by me. In the exercise of my responsibilities, obviously, I must take a decision on how much information I can give in response to a question at any given time. If the Deputy wishes to receive private information over and above that made available in this House, such information must remain private. That is something the Deputy would want to consider before coming to receive any private information. That would be normal in respect of any private information the Deputy might receive from any other briefing with any other person whether governmental or otherwise.

Mr. B. Ahern

I thank the Taoiseach for the Bills received within the past few days, which we had been seeking for a number of weeks. This side of the House has agreed to take these Bills this week, although the traditional 14-day rule will not have expired in respect of one to be taken tomorrow or Thursday, it having been published only on Friday last.

Since we on this side of the House have supported the efforts of the Minister for Enterprise and Employment in relation to Irish Steel — because of statements made by British Ministers, including their representatives on this issue — would the Taoiseach consider it worth while, as we do, raising this matter in his discussions with the British Prime Minister as I understand he will talk to him about a mini-summit over the next few days? Perhaps he would raise this urgent issue since the passage of time is becoming dangerous for Irish Steel and its employees.

Miss Harney

On the matter of private information, as the Taoiseach knows, he offered private information on another matter today which I refused to accept because I consider it the duty of the Opposition in this House to render the Government accountable, through this House, to the public. Therefore, if the receipt of private information prevents us asking legitimate questions, we are not then in a position to receive such information. In advance of Friday next will the Taoiseach explain to the public, through this House, why the Director of Public Prosecutions is willing to participate in a live radio programme and accept questions from members of the public——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

This is not the appropriate forum or time for that inquiry.

Miss Harney

I will have no other opportunity and next week will be too late.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

This is leading to repetition and the Deputy has many other ways of raising the matter.

Miss Harney

The Taoiseach has not answered my very relevant question at all.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

It would not be in order for the Taoiseach to address that now.

Miss Harney

This is a farce.

Mr. Cowen

When will the Bovine Diseases Levy Bill be introduced, given that last Friday there was a further reduction in export refunds of 7.5 per cent for livestock and 5 per cent for the beef trade? It is time we had an opportunity to discuss these issues in the House. Perhaps the bringing forward of this long promised legislation would give us that opportunity. Could we have it in the next week or so since we have not had legislation in this area for some time?

The Taoiseach

That Bill is already on the Order Paper.

Mr. Cowen

When will we take it?

The Taoiseach

When the time for it is agreed.

Mr. Cowen

On a point of order, is it the responsibility of the Government to introduce its own legislation or is it my responsibility? I have asked a simple question on export refunds regarding which there was a reduction last Friday.

The Taoiseach

It is No. 5 on the Order Paper; the Bill is ready.

Mr. Cowen

Will we take it next week?

The Taoiseach

I do not know if Deputy Cowen consulted the Order Paper. If he had he would have seen it.

Mr. Cowen

We have it here.

The Taoiseach

The taking of the legislation is a matter for agreement in the House between the Whips. It will be taken as soon as possible. If the Deputy wants to take it tomorrow or the day after, I am sure the House could arrange for it to be taken.

Mr. Cowen

Thanks very much. The Taoiseach is most co-operative.

Miss de Valera

Perhaps the Taoiseach could tell the House if the Government intervened with RTE to prevent the former Government Press Secretary, Mr. Seán Duignan, from presenting the news on RTE? If there was such intervention, had the former Taoiseach, Dr. Garret FitzGerald, any role to play in it? The House and the general public would be very interested in hearing the Taoiseach's views on this.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

This is not appropriate at this time.

The Taoiseach

I do not mind who presents the news on RTE, so long as they get it right.

Miss de Valera

What is the Taoiseach's definition of "right"?

Mrs. O'Rourke

Right for him.

Minister of State at the Department of Enterprise and Employment (Mr. Rabbitte)

A Leas-Cheann Comhairle, I do not trouble you very often these days, but I want to raise an important matter. I wonder if Deputy Martin Cullen — wherever he is skulking — could advise the House who is coming to dinner next Sunday.

Mrs. O'Rourke

The Minister is so funny.

A Deputy

Minister Dudley Moore.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. H. Byrne

Can the Taoiseach tell us when we will have legislation before the House to provide for accommodation at Johnstown Castle to facilitate the locating of the Environmental Protection Agency and the decentralisation of the Department of Agriculture to Johnstown Castle?

The Taoiseach

That legislation is at an advanced stage of preparation and its expected, but not guaranteed, publication date is December of this year.

Mr. Martin

Will the Taoiseach indicate when we can expect publication of the Government's universities Bill and if the preparatory documentation which has been made available to many other people outside the House can be made available to the spokespeople on education? The matter is of considerable concern outside the House.

The Taoiseach

The expected publication date is late spring of next year.

Mr. McCreevy

Now that the House has been treated to a blast from the past from Deputy Rabbitte, could the Taoiseach ask him, as Minister for Science and Technology, to tell the House who supplied the equipment in Waterford last Sunday? Would the Minister for Justice know who was the person scouting in Waterford last weekend?

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Cowen

Now that the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, has confirmed that his own party are totally committed to open democracy in all their fora, could he confirm what secret members of his organisation are not eligible to read the news?

Mrs. O'Rourke

Deputy Rabbitte will be sorry he put his toe in the water.