Vol. 462 No. 1
9 Mr. Bell asked the Minister for Social Welfare the fees paid per person to solicitors and barristers in respect of women who qualified for equality payments; the level of payment made to solicitors and barristers in respect of women who were deemed ineligible for equality payments; the total amount paid in legal fees to date; the approximate estimated final figure; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [1726/96]
It would not be appropriate for me to provide details, at this time, of the legal costs paid in individual cases, in view of the fact that costs have yet to be settled in the vast majority of cases in which proceedings were initiated arising from the delay in implementing the equal treatment directive.
In so far as my Department is concerned, legal costs have not been paid in respect of any plaintiff who did not have an entitlement under the arrangements which I introduced in 1995 to give effect to the decision of the High Court.
The amount paid to date by my Department in respect of legal fees is in the region of £800,000. There is no basis, at present, on which the total legal costs which will have to be met by the State can be estimated.
Is the Minister aware that while some solicitors did not charge any fee others charged a handling fee plus a percentage of the amount paid in settlement of a claim? In some instances, solicitors charged fees in excess of £1,000 for their services and on top of this they will be entitled to claim legal costs from the Department. Will the Minister draw this to the attention of the Taxing Master and the Incorporated Law Society?
I will convey the information provided by the Deputy to the Chief State Solicitor's office.
Is the Minister aware that in cases where legal proceedings have been taken the applicants concerned have been asked, through their legal representative, to sign what I consider to be harsh documentation waiving their right to make a further claim once they accept a settlement? This practice must cease forthwith. If information becomes available which shows that the original calculations were incorrect, they should be entitled to make a further claim.
Extensive arrangements have been made between the legal representatives of the Government and those of claimants, the vast majority of whom are not legally represented. I have no doubt that the proper legal procedures are being followed. Payments are being made in full in line with the decision of the High Court.
While I accept that the Minister is willing to ensure the proper legal procedures are followed claimants who accept a settlement figure, through their legal representative — I have a copy of a settlement which is extremely complex and runs to four pages — must waive their right to make a further claim. This practice must cease. It is grossly unfair that claimants are put under pressure in this way.
This question is essentially statistical.
I ask the Minister who was gracious enough to respond to my initial question to take up this matter.
The Deputy has extended the bounds of the question to include policy matters.
The Deputy will accept that I have no way of knowing whether the statement he made is accurate.
I will give the Minister a copy of the documentation.
It would be inappropriate for me to interfere with the client-solicitor relationship. A claimant will employ a solicitor, in the first instance, to protect his or her legal rights.
Solicitors are asking them to decide.
It would be appropriate for the Deputy to raise the matter with the solicitor about whom he appears to be complaining. The Minister, no matter who he or she may be, has no power or right to interfere with the client-solicitor relationship.
The Minister has indicated that £800,000 has been paid to date.
That is scandalous.
To how many legal firms was this amount paid?
It would not be appropriate for me to provide details of the legal costs paid in individual cases bearing in mind that only a small proportion of the total number of legal claims have been settled. Most of the outstanding cases will be the subject of considerable negotiation to reach a settlement. It would not be in the interests of the Exchequer, therefore, to divulge the information the Deputy is seeking at this time.
I am sure the Minister is aware that, as applicants are required to sign these documents prior to a claim being forwarded on their behalf to the Department, they waive their rights even before they discover they are entitled to any payment. As a consequence, Members of the Oireachtas cannot seek information on their behalf from the Department. That is appalling. The Minister should examine this matter with a view to ensuring that it does not happen again.
It is scandalous.
Every citizen has the right to instruct a solicitor in whatever way he or she chooses and to refuse to sign any document that may be put before him or her. It is a matter for the solicitor to protect his or her interests. If clients are unhappy about the way their solicitors are handling their affairs they should bring it to the notice of the Incorporated Law Society whose task it is to monitor and protect clients against abuse from legal representatives.
A total of £800,000 Exchequer funding has been paid out to date. It is unbelievable that the Minister cannot answer my straightforward question. How many firms were involved in the payment?
As soon as the matter is settled I will be happy to give all the details of how the money was paid, to whom, when, and so on.
The Minister will not be in office then.
As Minister for Social Welfare, it would be highly irresponsible of me to give an indication of settlements which could have a bearing on costs to the State in respect of settlements under negotiation. I do not intend to do that, irrespective of how much Deputy Walsh complains.
How many claims did the £800,000 represent? How many claims are outstanding? Given that a number of solicitors are acting for clients, will the Minister state the amount of settlement given to the solicitor and the individual concerned? We cannot get this information from the Department. A number of people are experiencing major difficulties with solicitors. It is all very fine for the Minister to say they can take up the matter with the Law Society but how can they do that if they do not know how much they are getting?
Every person entitled to equality arrears has received a payment. Some people have received two payments and others have received full payment. Legal fees are being settled in respect of cases for which full payment has been made to claimants. We are talking about payments in the region of £260 million. The reason so many solicitors are involved is that previous Administrations categorically refused to deal with the issue.
We are back to the same old tune.
They categorically refused to pay the women their entitlements.
The Minister is putting them through the hoops.
One of my first tasks as Minister for Social Welfare was to get money to pay the women their just entitlements. They are now in receipt of that money but we are still cleaning up the mess and dealing with the legal fees that accumulated because of the ineptitude and improper manner in which previous Fianna Fáil Administrations dealt with the matter.
The Minister should answer the question he was asked.
Who is he protecting?
