Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take No. 25, National Standards Authority of Ireland Bill, 1996 — Report of the Select Committee on Enterprise and Economic Strategy; No. 5, Transnational Information and Consultation of Employees Bill, 1996 — amendment from Seanad; No. 24, Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Bill, 1996 — Report of the Select Committee on Legislation and Security and Report and Final Stages; No. 12, Organised Crime (Restraint and Disposal of Illicit Assets) Bill, 1996 — Second Stage.

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that: (1) the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. and business shall be interrupted not later than 12 midnight; (2) the amendment from the Seanad to No. 5 shall be decided without debate; (3) the Report and Final Stages of No. 24 shall be taken today and, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 6.45 p.m. by one question which shall be put from the Chair and which shall, in relation to amendments, include only those set down or accepted by the Minister for Justice; and (4) the Second Stage of No. 12 shall be taken today; the proceedings thereon, if not previously concluded, shall be brought to a conclusion at 12 midnight and the following arrangements shall apply; (i) the opening speech of the main spokesperson for the Fianna Fáil Party, a Minister or Minister of State and the main spokesperson for the Progressive Democrats Party shall not exceed 30 minutes in each case; (ii) the speech of each other Member called upon shall not exceed 20 minutes in each case; (iii) Members may share time and (iv) the main spokesperson for the Fianna Fáil Party shall be called upon to make a speech in reply which shall not exceed 15 minutes.

Private Members' Business shall be No. 43 motion No. 13 re crime.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

There are four matters to put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed? Agreed. Is it agreed that the amendment from the Seanad to No. 5 shall be taken without debate? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with No. 24 agreed? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with No. 12 agreed?

Mr. B. Ahern

On the Order of Business on Thursday last I requested that we should not wait until 25 July to debate all the matters emanating from the recent murders but should try to deal with them this week. I acknowledge that the Government examined the Fianna Fáil Bill, as the Taoiseach said it would, and that the Minister kindly informed me late on Sunday night that it would be taken. This is the first time in many decades that an Opposition Bill is being taken in Government time. We have proven that much valuable work can be done by the Opposition. As I said to the Minister, amendments will be taken on board. Yesterday the Whips agreed the wording of the Private Members' motion and I welcome that agreement. However, I do not like the idea of trying the Opposition into agreeing something and then seeing the entire Government give a press conference on its ideas. We are trying to deal with crime issues which I strongly believe the Government should have dealt with in the past 18 months and it is not helpful for the Government to organise a press conference to coincide with the debate on these issues. We will co-operate when we can and will continue to work as we have done in recent days, but the Government holding the press conference when we are debating these matters in an effort to upstage the Opposition is not very helpful.

Deputies

Hear, hear.

Mr. N. Treacy

Cynical hypocrisy.

The Taoiseach

I think the arrangements for dealing with No. 12 are satisfactory.

Mr. D. Ahern

Yes.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Are the proposals for dealing with No. 12 agreed? Agreed.

Mr. B. Ahern

Last Tuesday, 25 June Deputy John O'Donoghue tabled Question No. 303 which asked the Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry "the legal fees and expenses paid or payable and claimed and unpaid to persons representing public representatives at the Tribunal of Inquiry into the Beef Industry in Ireland...". That evening he received a reply which stated that claims for costs had been submitted and that examination of these was ongoing by the taxing master. Deputy O'Donoghue then tried to raise the matter on the Adjournment but received a letter from the Ceann Comhairle which stated that it could not be taken on the Adjournment and was a matter for the Dáil.

Mr. B. Ahern

The Taoiseach should listen to what I am saying as it is very relevant. Today Deputy O'Donoghue tabled Questions Nos. 370 to 376, inclusive, and 392 to 394, inclusive. It was only when the Deputy had pursued the matter on three separate occasions — first by way of parliamentary question, second by way of an Adjournment debate and third by way of further parliamentary questions — that the relevant Department and Minister wrote to the Deputy advising him there was an oversight in the reply to Question No. 303 on 25 June in that it did not include certain information and did not indicate that following an interim certificate of taxation made by the taxing master on 13 March a payment of £754,760 was issued to Messrs. D. White and Company, the solicitors acting on behalf of a former Member of the House and the Minister of State, Deputy Pat Rabbitte.

During the beef tribunal Mr. Justice Hamilton said that if questions had been answered properly there might not have been a need for the tribunal. In this case the evasive reply given to Question No. 303 showed the Minister and the Department thought Deputy O'Donoghue would go away. They also thought he would go away when he tried to raise the matter on the Adjournment and it was only when he put down further detailed questions that they owned up. It is entirely unsatisfactory if this is the way we have to go about getting information from the Government, Ministers and Departments. I love the line "did not include certain information". A sum of £750,000 is not a little matter one would forget when replying to a detailed question.

Will the Minister who wrote the letter come into the House in the normal way and correct the error given in reply to a parliamentary question and put the facts on the record? Will he also say why this information was concealed in his Department and not given in the reply to the first question?

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The relevance of this matter to the Order of Business escapes me.

Mr. D. Ahern

It goes to the core of the relevancy of this House.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I said it is irrelevant to the Order of Business.

Mr. B. Ahern

The Taoiseach wishes to reply. The reason I raise this matter is that the Ceann Comhairle's letter stated the Minister had no responsibilities to the Dáil in this matter and it was a matter for the Dáil itself. That position changed as the days went on and the Minister's office told me it will give the full information in reply to today's parliamentary questions. It is, therefore, a matter for the Dáil. There was an effort by somebody somewhere to conceal this information. Nobody forgets about £750,000, especially when it relates to a Minister.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Any suggestion of misleading the House should be dealt with in another way.

Mr. N. Treacy

The foundations of the State must have rocked at that time.

The Taoiseach

The Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry is present in the House and is happy to deal with the matter now.

Minister for Agriculture, Food and Forestry (Mr. Yates)

This matter was first brought to my attention when it came to signing the letter to Deputy O'Donoghue. It was in Luxembourg for four days last week negotiating the BSE compensation package and as soon as the matter was brought to my attention I signed the letter. I regret that incomplete information was given in the first instance but there was no political or other gain from the original inaccuracy. I regret any incomplete picture given to the House but I am advised it was a technical human error in my Department. There was no other motivation involved.

Mr. Dempsey

I hope there are no other errors involving this amount of money.

Miss. Harney

We are a bit fed up with technical errors in the Department of Agriculture, Food and Forestry — I exclude the Minister from this. This problem has existed for a number of years and it is time somebody put it right. The Minister has responsibility for this matter now and I hope he puts it right.

On the law of defamation, last Thursday in the House I expressed my horror at an interview conducted on RTE that morning with a convicted criminal. I understand that since then two sets of proceedings have been taken against RTE in that matter, and there may well have been settlements. Given that the newspaper industry report recommends changes and that when my party moved its Bill to change the law in this area the Government said it wanted more time — it was not possible to have a Second Reading of that Bill last October as the Government had not completed its deliberations — will the Taoiseach agree there is an urgent need for change in the law in this area? Will he give a commitment that the Government will respond to the concerns of many people to ensure we have a free press by bringing in changes to that legislation?

The Taoiseach

I understand parts of the newspaper industry report appeared in a recent edition of a newspaper. This report has not yet been received by the Government which obviously would wish to receive it, study it and publish it properly before announcing any conclusions on any matter contained in it.

Miss Harney

I have to press the Taoiseach on this matter given that when my party moved its Bill early last year the Taoiseach said the Minister for Equality and Law Reform wanted more time to consider these matters. A considerable length of time — more than one year — has passed since then. This is not a laughing matter, it is a serious matter and it hampers the press.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

We cannot debate the matter now.

Miss Harney

Some of the settlements about which I have heard disturb me and changes are urgently required in this law. Will the Taoiseach give a commitment to the respond in this area, as the Government has responded to the Opposition in recent days? I welcome that response but this is another area which also requires urgent Government attention.

The Taoiseach

It is appropriate to make the point that newspapers are businesses and obviously act some of the time with business considerations in mind but they also serve a public interest in a very important way. It is better that both considerations which are encompassed within the newspaper industry report should be considered properly in their respective contexts and any conclusions to be drawn should be drawn in that way. While I appreciate the Deputy and her party have a particular view on this matter, which she freely expressed in the House, I am sure she is also aware that others have different views about the need to provide protection for the reputation of individuals. Not all individuals who may avail of the defamation law to protect themselves have a criminal record. It is important that their interests should also be considered in a mature and careful way in light of the public interest and all the other considerations. I am sure the Deputy would wish the Government to do that and that is what we will do. When we receive the report we will study it and come to a conclusion on the matter.

Miss Harney

Has there been no Government consideration of this matter? Is the Taoiseach still awaiting this report? I know the Minister has the report because I raised the issue on Question Time last week. Although he gave me no information he said it would probably be leaked shortly — which it was the next day — which highlights the inadequacies of this House. Has there been any consideration of this matter? I understood, the Minister, Deputy Taylor, was considering these matters.

The Taoiseach

I do not know whether we are having a general question time here on this matter——

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

No, it has already been indicated.

The Taoiseach

——to answer the Deputy's question. The position is that any matter of this kind concerning the introduction of legislation or otherwise is a matter for the Government as a whole. I am not certain whether the Minister has received a copy but——

Mrs. O'Rourke

He told us on Question Time he had.

The Taoiseach

——it is certainly the case that the Cabinet has not yet had an opportunity to consider this report. The matter of defamation must be considered in its broad context as it affects individuals in general, including those who may have reason to use it for the concealment of purposes that one would not wish them to conceal but also individuals who want to lead a normal life and do not want to be defamed for profit. It is important that one should consider the issue of defamation. The House would probably wish me to do this, to ensure that the issue of defamation, which is a finely balanced issue, is considered in a careful way in its full context. That is what the Government intends to do when it receives this long awaited, interesting and useful report.

Mr. S. Brennan

Is the Taoiseach prepared to allow the Bord na Móna crisis to drag on? It has been going on now for ten weeks.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That is not appropriate to the Order of Business.

Mr. S. Brennan

The Minister told the House today that he is now referring it back to the board yet again and reporting to the Cabinet so that the matter will continue during the summer.

Mr. Lowry

On a point of order, if I am to be quoted I want to be quoted accurately.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Please, this is not appropriate to the Order of Business. I want to move to the Order of the House.

Mr. Martin

Will the Taoiseach indicate when the proposed legislation in relation to the future of vocational education committees will be introduced and will he ensure that prior to its production proper and full consultation will take place with the partners involved? Today at the steering committee meeting there was a walk-out by the chief executive officers of the IVEA.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

That should be adequate Deputy.

Mr. Martin

The situation is disintegrating into a chaotic scene.

The Taoiseach

The Minister for Education, like her predecessors, has been exemplary in the extent of consultations into which she entered, including holding an education convention, which allowed for the first time in the history of the State an opportunity for consultation of all the relevant interests to take place.

Dáil Éireann debate - Tuesday, 2 Jul 1996

Deputies

Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 2 Jul 1996