It is proposed to take No. 1, Broadcasting (Major Events Television Coverage) (Amendment) Bill 2003 [Seanad] – Second Stage. It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that the Dáil shall sit later than 8.30 p.m. and business shall be interrupted not later than 10 p.m.; the Second Stage of No. 1 shall be taken today and the proceedings thereon shall, if not previously concluded, be brought to a conclusion at 10 p.m. Private Members' Business shall be No. 30, motion re humanitarian aid for Iraq.
Order of Business.
There are two proposals to be put to the House. Is the proposal for the late sitting agreed to?
I propose an amendment that we sit until 12 midnight. I do not like this business of guillotining Bills. There are sufficient speakers to keep the debate going.
I support Deputy Kenny's amendment. Will you, a Cheann Comhairle, inquire on behalf of Members about the rights of Opposition Members given that, this early in its lifetime, the Government takes as a matter of practice that it will guillotine Bills coming before the House? No fewer than six times this week the Government will guillotine a Bill brought before the House. There has never been a precedent such as this in the first year of the lifetime of a Government. A guillotine is a matter of emergency that is resorted to by Government when time is running out or when it is a matter of some importance that a Bill gets through before a certain date. It is unacceptable that we should be asked to do business by rote whereby the Government brings down a guillotine and votes through Bills by superior numbers. That is not the way to enact legislation and, for that reason, I too oppose the Order of Business.
The Green Party opposes the Order of Business based on the fact that it omits the real need for a further debate on Iraq. I realise the Broadcasting (Major Events Television Coverage) (Amendment) Bill may refer to Iraq if we are talking about television coverage of major events, but it is hardly the most direct way of dealing with the major crisis of our time. Does the Minister for Defence agree that there is a need to include on the Order of Business each week a debate on Iraq which would take into account the unfolding horrors there, the use of Shannon Airport, the civilian casualties and the need to withdraw the Shannon facility before any more innocent people lose their lives?
It is not Question Time with the Minister. We are debating the proposal for the late sitting.
Indeed.
As Deputies know, there is an urgency with the Broadcasting (Major Events Television Coverage) (Amendment) Bill. I understand that there is fairly broad agreement in the House—
Only for Rupert Murdoch. It is three years too late.
—for the necessity for it to enable Irish viewers—
Why did the Government not introduce the Bill before now?
—to see the next home game. There is no disagreement about that.
On the question of sitting until 10 p.m., we have done this frequently and it does not create a precedent. For the benefit of Deputy Rabbitte, the Government of which he was a member had 12 guillotines in one week before Christmas in 1995 or 1996. When he speaks about not having precedents—
Short memory.
A long one.
—he has a short memory when it suits him. There are three hours for debate on Iraq this week. We are accommodating this House in every possible way.
Question put: "That figure 10 p.m. proposed to be deleted stand."
Tá
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Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Andrews, Barry.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Seamus.Browne, John.Callanan, Joe.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Carty, John.Cassidy, Donie.Collins, Michael.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary.Cregan, John.Curran, John.de Valera, Síle.Dempsey, Noel.Dempsey, Tony.Dennehy, John. |
Devins, Jimmy.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Finneran, Michael.Fitzpatrick, Dermot.Fleming, Seán.Glennon, Jim.Hanafin, Mary.Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Hoctor, Máire.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.Kelly, Peter.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Seamus.Kitt, Tom.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDowell, Michael.McEllistrim, Thomas.McGuinness, John. Martin, Micheál. |
Tá–continued
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Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Mulcahy, Michael.Nolan, M.J..Ó Cuív, Éamon.Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.O'Connor, Charlie.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donnell, Liz.O'Donoghue, John.O'Donovan, Denis.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Keeffe, Batt. |
O'Malley, Fiona.O'Malley, Tim.Parlon, Tom.Power, Peter.Power, Seán.Ryan, Eoin.Sexton, Mae.Smith, Brendan.Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wallace, Dan.Wilkinson, Ollie.Woods, Michael. |
Níl
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Allen, Bernard.Boyle, Dan.Breen, James.Broughan, Thomas P.Burton, Joan.Connaughton, Paul.Costello, Joe.Coveney, Simon.Crawford, Seymour.Crowe, Seán.Deasy, John.Deenihan, Jimmy.Durkan, Bernard J.English, Damien.Enright, Olwyn.Gormley, John.Gregory, Tony.Harkin, Marian.Hayes, Tom.Higgins, Joe.Higgins, Michael D.Hogan, Phil.Kenny, Enda.Lynch, Kathleen.McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Finian.McManus, Liz.Mitchell, Gay. |
Mitchell, Olivia.Morgan, Arthur.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Murphy, Gerard.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Noonan, Michael.Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.O'Dowd, Fergus.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Pattison, Seamus.Penrose, Willie.Perry, John.Quinn, Ruairi.Rabbitte, Pat.Ryan, Eamon.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Sherlock, Joe.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Twomey, Liam.Upton, Mary.Wall, Jack. |
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hanafin and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Durkan and Stagg.
Question declared carried.
Is the main proposal relating to the late sitting agreed? Agreed. We now move on to the second proposal for dealing with No. 1, Second Stage of the Broadcasting (Major Events Television Coverage) (Amendment) Bill 2003. Is the proposal agreed?
I proposed that the House should sit until midnight to deal with this matter, which should not be guillotined.
That proposal has already been dealt with. Is the proposal agreed?
It may well be the case that there were 12 guillotines before Christmas, as the Minister for Defence has claimed, but it is unprecedented that quite innocuous Bills, which do not need to be rushed, should be guillotined as a matter of routine at this stage of the life of a Dáil. This entirely new trend represents a serious attack on democracy in this Chamber.
Hear, hear.
It is something that we should not take lightly.
Hear, hear.
The Opposition is wasting time.
It is also a display of arrogance on the part of the Government in its attitude to this House.
(Interruptions).
I include the Government backbenchers, some of whom are behind me, in that statement.
I wish to make clear that the Government Deputies in this part of the House cannot support Deputy Stagg.
(Interruptions).
I ask the Government to desist from this practice of imposing guillotines and I put it on notice that we will continue to oppose this practice and vote against it.
The Opposition will waste more time like it did last week.
We will vote twice if we like.
The influence of satellite broadcasters in this country is clear. The fact that the Government has sat back and watched such broadcasters take over and eat into our independence as a country—
Hear, hear.
We cannot discuss the content of the legislation at this point.
Deputy Eamon Ryan does not have to watch the programmes broadcast by the people he mentions.
He should look at the Bill.
In those circumstances, I agree with Deputy Stagg that it is very unfortunate that we are guillotining a Bill which is trying to protect our independence as a people.
The Deputy supports the Bill.
It needs to be pointed out that the manner in which the Government proposes to bring legislation through the House, involving restricted debates, time limits and guillotines, means that many Members cannot participate in Second Stage debates.
Hear, hear.
When some of us were elected to this House, it was possible for all Deputies to participate in any given debate, but that is no longer the case. Ministers are now spending their time doing constituency work outside the House rather than being present here to bring legislation through the House.
It is true.
I wish to make clear that my party will oppose that process in every way available to it.
Any fair-minded person assessing the time made available to Deputies in this House, and how it is used, will know who is wasting the time of this House.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
I wish to put the question.
Question put: "That the proposal for dealing with item No. 1 be agreed to."
Tá
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Ahern, Dermot.Ahern, Michael.Ahern, Noel.Andrews, Barry.Ardagh, Seán.Aylward, Liam.Brady, Johnny.Brady, Martin.Brennan, Seamus.Browne, John.Callanan, Joe.Callely, Ivor.Carey, Pat.Carty, John.Cassidy, Donie.Collins, Michael.Cooper-Flynn, Beverley.Coughlan, Mary.Cregan, John.Curran, John.de Valera, Síle.Dempsey, Noel.Dempsey, Tony.Dennehy, John.Devins, Jimmy.Ellis, John.Fahey, Frank.Finneran, Michael.Fitzpatrick, Dermot.Fleming, Seán.Gallagher, Pat The Cope.Glennon, Jim.Hanafin, Mary. |
Haughey, Seán.Healy-Rae, Jackie.Hoctor, Máire.Jacob, Joe.Keaveney, Cecilia.Kelleher, Billy.Kelly, Peter.Killeen, Tony.Kirk, Seamus.Kitt, Tom.Lenihan, Conor.McCreevy, Charlie.McDowell, Michael.McEllistrim, Thomas.McGuinness, John.Martin, Micheál.Moloney, John.Moynihan, Donal.Moynihan, Michael.Mulcahy, Michael.Nolan, M.J.Ó Cuív, Éamon.Ó Fearghaíl, Seán.O'Connor, Charlie.O'Dea, Willie.O'Donnell, Liz.O'Donovan, Denis.O'Flynn, Noel.O'Keeffe, Batt.O'Malley, Fiona. O'Malley, Tim. |
Tá–continued
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Parlon, Tom.Power, Peter.Power, Seán.Ryan, Eoin.Sexton, Mae.Smith, Brendan. |
Smith, Michael.Treacy, Noel.Wallace, Dan.Wilkinson, Ollie.Woods, Michael. |
Níl
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Boyle, Dan.Breen, James.Breen, Pat.Broughan, Thomas P.Burton, Joan.Connaughton, Paul.Costello, Joe.Coveney, Simon.Crawford, Seymour.Crowe, Seán.Deasy, John.Deenihan, Jimmy.Durkan, Bernard J.Enright, Olwyn.Gormley, John.Gregory, Tony.Harkin, Marian.Hayes, Tom.Higgins, Joe.Higgins, Michael D.Hogan, Phil.Kenny, Enda.Lynch, Kathleen.McCormack, Padraic.McGinley, Dinny.McGrath, Finian.Mitchell, Gay. |
Mitchell, Olivia.Morgan, Arthur.Moynihan-Cronin, Breeda.Murphy, Gerard.Naughten, Denis.Neville, Dan.Noonan, Michael.Ó Caoláin, Caoimhghín.Ó Snodaigh, Aengus.O'Dowd, Fergus.O'Shea, Brian.O'Sullivan, Jan.Pattison, Seamus.Penrose, Willie.Perry, John.Quinn, Ruairí.Rabbitte, Pat.Ryan, Eamon.Ryan, Seán.Sargent, Trevor.Sherlock, Joe.Shortall, Róisín.Stagg, Emmet.Stanton, David.Timmins, Billy.Twomey, Liam.Upton, Mary.Wall, Jack. |
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Hanafin and Kelleher; Níl, Deputies Durkan and Stagg.
Question declared carried.
In view of the fact that the dates are set for the Easter recess, how many Bills will come before the House before then and what will they be?
I do not have all that information, but I will be in touch with the Deputy directly.
The Minister for Defence has the legislative programme as published and he knows what Bills are to come before the House. In view of the fact that the Government wishes to guillotine most of them, how many does the Minister expect will be put through by the Easter recess?
The more co-operation we get, the more we will be able to put through.
That is not an answer.
What about the right to freedom of speech?
Reports on the national treatment purchase fund indicate that bed space will continue to be acquired abroad while public hospitals close beds here. The Government has promised that the fund will be put on a statutory footing. What are the exact plans the Government has in mind for the fund?
The annual conference of the directors of nursing was held yesterday at which concern was expressed about the level of bureaucracy that must be dealt with on a daily basis. This bureaucracy impedes the ability of nurses to care for patients.
The Deputy should ask a question which relates to the Order of Business.
When can we expect publication of the Nurses Bill?
That matter is being considered by the Minister for Health and Children. The treatment purchase scheme has been a phenomenal success.
The Minister should answer the question.
The Minister has not answered either of the questions I asked him.
Is legislation promised, Minister?
He does not know.
I said the matter was under consideration by the Minister for Health and Children.
I asked about commitments to put the treatment purchase fund on a statutory footing. The House was given a commitment that the Government would publish a Nurses Bill. I would like the Minister for Defence to state where both matters stand.
The Deputy should give the Minister a chance to answer her question.
The heads of the Nurses Bill are expected in the middle of this year.
A Minister of State said yesterday that the Nurses Bill would be before the House by autumn.
We cannot have a discussion on the matter. I call Deputy Sargent. The Chair has no control over the Minister's reply.
Who are we to believe?
Deputy McManus is being disorderly. I call Deputy Sargent.
Do we believe the Minister or the Minister of State? There are two distinct lines on this.
The Chair has no control over ministerial replies.
On a point of order, the Ceann Comhairle is right to confine questions at this point in the proceedings to proposed legislation. Concise questions and replies are the norm and two of the former were put by my colleague.
Deputy McManus received answers to both.
They were evaded on two separate occasions and on the third occasion half an answer was received to only one.
That is wrong.
The first question asked when the treatment purchase scheme, legislation for which has been promised, will be put on a statutory basis. Has the Minister for Defence, who is here because the Taoiseach has run out of the House, that information and, if so, will he convey it to the House?
The answer I gave has not changed in the seconds since I responded to Deputy McManus. The matter is being considered by the Minister for Health and Children. In the case of the second matter, I stated that the heads of the Nurses Bill will be ready in the middle of this year – I used plain English.
The Minister of State said the Bill will be before the House in the autumn.
Deputy McManus is being disorderly. I call Deputy Sargent.
Will it be before the House then?
We cannot take up the whole evening discussing one item.
The Minister is correct.
Will the Minister for Defence answer a question which relates to promised legislation? It relates to a short Bill and I cannot understand—
The Deputy should please come to the Bill. Deputies complain they do not have enough time to discuss legislation.
That is because Bills are guillotined.
I am trying to respond to the Minister.
If the Order of Business is abused, there will not be time for legislation.
The Minister could pass short Bills easily. The Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty Bill was promised in 2001 and 2002 and is now promised for 2004. Does the Minister agree it is necessary to pass this Bill soon? Depleted uranium and other fission material is being used, which should be banned.
The draft heads of the Bill are being prepared in the Department and it is expected that they will go to Government late this year.
The Bill has been promised since 2001.
Last week the extension of BreastCheck to the south and west of the country was announced. Although funding was not specifically mentioned, will a Supplementary Estimate be brought before the Dáil and when?
Is a Supplementary Estimate promised?
No Estimate is promised.
There is another budget. Money is being spent that is not before the Houses—
(Interruptions).
We cannot have a debate on it. I suggest that the Deputy submit a question to the appropriate Minister. No Supplementary Estimate is promised, according to the Minister.
When will the Ground Rents Bill be published?
It is not possible to indicate that at this stage.
I thought the Taoiseach would have been in his place. Perhaps we have a new Taoiseach, or this is an April fool's joke. I did not hear that the Taoiseach was to be absent from the House on the Order of Business. Perhaps he will visit us again on Thursday.
Has the Deputy a question appropriate to the Order of Business? Otherwise we will move on.
It is appropriate to the Order of Business because the Taoiseach is usually here to take it on Tuesdays. I have a question on legislation. When does the Government plan to introduce legislation to establish a racist scheme under which all non-nationals will be compulsorily fingerprinted?
There already is one.
Are there plans for the introduction of a perjury Act to deal with people who give fraudulent evidence in insurance cases?
There is no legislation promised.
The responsible Minister has said that proposals are at an advanced stage. Somebody is planning legislation on this.
What would be the Minister's reply to the 85 people who have been made redundant from the CPV plant in Clones, on top of 55 already made redundant?
Has the Deputy a question on legislation?
When will the Redundancy Bill, so long promised in this House, be introduced? These people deserve proper redundancy payments.
The heads of the Bill have already been approved by the Government and this matter is being dealt with urgently.
While this evening we will be debating one dimension of the current situation in Iraq, the humanitarian dimension, I have on a number of occasions asked that the Government provide time for a debate on the political initiatives we are taking or urging on others at the level of the United Nations to draw the war to a close and to seek to address the deteriorating situation in the Middle East. I repeat my request now. When will the Government provide Government time for a full and adequate debate on the political dimension to the illegal attack on Iraq?
This is a matter which should be arranged in discussion between the Whips representing the various political parties.
The Taoiseach gave us that answer last week. When we had a Whips meeting we were told there would be no debate unless there was a change in circumstances. I do not know whether that means the ending of the war or that somebody wins the war. We were told there was to be no debate. That answer is therefore useless.
In view of the collapse of the health services and in particular the nurses' strike in Waterford, when will the Health Complaints Bill be introduced?
The heads of the Bill are expected in the middle of this year.
When can we expect the Veterinary Medicines Bill will be introduced? It is a stated ambition of the Minister to be the Minister for Agriculture and Food. He might therefore let us know whether the farm organisations have signed up to the social partnership agreement yet?
The first question is appropriate. The other question was dealt with earlier in the day by the Taoiseach.
The heads of the Bill are already approved. The Bill is being drafted and should be ready by the middle of this year.
I have two questions and the relevant Ministers are in the House. When will the Disability Bill and the Education of Persons with Disability Bill be published? Will it be before the Easter recess, before the summer recess or after the summer recess? May we have a precise time scale for publication of the Bills?
The Education of Persons with Disability Bill will be published soon. The Disability Bill is anticipated before the summer of this year.
I want to know about the status and work to date on the Forestry (Amendment) Bill, the Property Registration Authority Bill and the GSI Bill.
The heads of the forestry Bill are currently being prepared and it is expected early in 2004.
The trees will be knee-high by that time.
The GSI Bill will be published in the autumn of this year. The Property Registration Authority Bill is expected in late 2003.
Many of us in this House have received representations about the chaotic system of driver testing in Ballina where people are waiting up to eight or nine months to get a driving test. When can we expect publication of the driver testing agency Bill and will that be brought forward to ensure that we can debate the pathetic situation in Ballina at present?
In late 2003.
This is a question the Minister will have no trouble answering in view of the fact that in south Tipperary since Christmas there have been job losses every month. There have been job losses in Tipperary town and Clonmel. Yesterday 100 people were laid off at Ronan in Clonmel and in Cashel only some months ago. This is an emergency for a constituency. Will time be set aside to discuss this issue which is hugely important for the people of south Tipperary?
That is a matter for the Whips, and there are other ways of raising it.
The Minister wants to answer.
The Minister cannot be out of order any more than any other Deputy.
I asked last week but did not get an answer about whether the Government intends to introduce legislation promised through the press to establish a registration system for marine leisure craft. I await an answer from the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources who is in the House.
There is no legislation promised.
It is not required.