Enda Kenny
Question:1 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach the number of staff in his Department who have applied for relocation under the Government’s decentralisation programme; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43903/06]
Ceisteanna — Questions.
Decentralisation Programme.
Joe Higgins
Question:2 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the implementation of the decentralisation programme as it affects his Department. [1609/07]
Trevor Sargent
Question:3 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the implementation of decentralisation in his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6330/07]
Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin
Question:4 Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the Civil Service relocation programme as it affects his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6766/07]
Pat Rabbitte
Question:5 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach the progress made in regard to decentralisation in so far as it affects his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8369/07]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 5, inclusive, together.
A total of 39 staff currently serving in my Department have applied through the central applications facility to relocate under the decentralisation programme. The breakdown by grade is: assistant principal, seven; higher executive officer, three; administrative officer, seven; executive officer, nine; staff officer, two; and clerical officer, 11. Ten former members of staff have already been assigned to decentralised posts.
Arrangements are in place to ensure the decentralisation of staff does not have a negative impact on the quality of the services provided by the Department. These arrangements include the phased redeployment of some of the remaining staff to the areas of the Department most affected by decentralisation, as well as the provision of training and job profiles and work manuals to new staff as appropriate.
The fact that 18% of the staff of my Department have opted to relocate outside of Dublin shows that the underlying decision to initiate a comprehensive decentralisation programme was correct.
Deputies will be aware there are no proposals to decentralise my Department or any of the bodies under its aegis.
What was the reason for the Government taking up 16.5% of all vacant office space in Dublin last year, which came to 38,000 sq. m.? This was 40% higher than the State's take-up in 2003. As I am hoarse, I am obliged to keep my questions short. Will any element of the Taoiseach's Department take up office space rented or taken out by Government in Dublin this year?
No and I do not think any of the organisations connected to my Department are that big either. I do not think any of them will do so and certainly not the Department. There is always a fair bit of moving around in terms of Departments. It is really an OPW question — I will try to be helpful — and it is forever changing its leases on developments it has and trying to get out of finishing some contracts and going for longer-term leases. I very much doubt it will increase its overall space. Where leases are getting short or coming up to review, it tries to get better arrangements. It tries to manage its own portfolio and it is forever doing that on an annual basis. My Department is not taking up additional accommodation.
The Taoiseach stated 18% of his staff applied for relocation. He put a figure of 39 staff on it and stated that ten former members of staff were already assigned to decentralised posts. Does this have any meaning? Have any of them been decentralised or have they even moved outside of the Taoiseach's office? Is it just that they are applicants who may be called on if the opportunities or vacancies arise?
In my Department, ten staff have already moved to posts. As Deputy Rabbitte is aware, through the managed system staff are moving to posts and areas. People who want to be decentralised across a range of areas are moving to offices that will be decentralised. This year about 1,000 people overall will be in posts and the figure will be several thousand in the next three years. From 2007 to 2009 the figure will reach 6,000.
There is a huge movement within the Department in a managed way which is now worked out with the unions. In fairness to the public service unions a good system was worked out. It will take a bit of time to move through the system but it is a good and organised system which allows people to move.
Ten staff members have gone and given the way it operates I would see most of these people moving on probably over the next two years. To date, decentralisation organisations have moved to 12 new locations. By the end of September this year I am told 2,300 staff will be assigned to decentralised posts. Within 18 months, there will be 29 locations across the country. Over the three year period we will see a very large number of people moving. The schedule is for the planned movement of 6,800 staff over the three-year period. It is a very large movement of people. Admittedly it is not what it was meant to be at the start but by the end of 2009 a total of 6,800 will have gone.
I do not wish to be picky on this. However, the Taoiseach stated ten people moved to decentralised posts. Does this mean they moved outside of Dublin city? Regarding general progress, as I understand the actual figures to date, approximately 6% of the McCreevy target has been decentralised and what the Taoiseach discussed was targets he hopes to achieve in the future.
Former Minister for Finance, Mr. McCreevy, famously stated----
This question refers specifically to the Taoiseach's Department.
However, the Taoiseach widened it and I was responding to his widening of the subject matter. All I was doing was recalling that former Minister for Finance, Mr. McCreevy, stated if it had not been implemented by the election the Government would pay a heavy price.
If the Deputy has a question we will hear it.
I thank the Ceann Comhairle and I accept that. Will the Taoiseach state what reality attaches to the new targets and expectation he has now given us? Will he be more specific and state how many will move and when and on the particular point of his Department whether those people are in posts outside of the capital city?
I do not know whether they have moved once they have left the Department. Regarding the figures for this summer, it is anticipated the number of decentralised staff moved to the new locations will be more than 1,000 in 20 towns. The plan in place, which I think is working through the system, will be 6,800 by the end of 2009. I think they have worked out a very good plan with the accommodation in place and the contracts done. We are talking about almost 7,000 staff gone in a three year period. This year, that figure will be 1,000.
Does the Taoiseach accept that even if the 10,000 target for decentralisation is reached it would be only a drop in the ocean compared to the continual growth in Dublin? Does he agree that economic development is concentrated far too much to the east and other regions lose out, particularly the south west? Will he consider establishing a unit in his Department to see how economic growth can be better managed and planned in the future?
The eastern region will continue to grow according to every report and survey. It is no longer Dublin, it is the greater Dublin area, and the definitions of the greater Dublin area get greater every year and it gets wider. To answer Deputy Ferris's question, the Government and I are totally supportive of balanced regional development. I think it is good for Dublin, the Dublin region and the country. As time goes on it is the only way to cater for a population of 5 million.
We are now told that within 13 years, which is a very short time, we will have in excess of 5 million people. The only way is to use the spatial strategy and the hubs to try to develop not only public sector but private sector jobs. That is what the Government has been supporting and pressing for a long time. Whether by Enterprise Ireland, the IDA or others most of the effort is made to try to move as much of the investment as we can. The public service has to give an example. It is not enormous out of a workforce of approximately 2.2 million. Within a year we will have 2.2 million people working. It is not only the 7,000, it is the large part of the public service. I do not think the public service will be the problem in the years ahead.
Through health and education the public service will continue to give employment around the country. The problem will be to try and get more private sector companies to move. A large amount of private sector companies, whether they are indigenous or multinationals, want to be around universities and airports. They have their priorities and it is not easy to get them to move either to the south west as Deputy Ferris mentioned or other areas. Policy has to be to try to get them to do so, otherwise the greater Dublin area will snarl even more. That is why I am in favour of this. There has been a very active programme on every investment for several years. The incentives are there to get them to move away from the greater Dublin area. It is in everybody's interest that they do so.
The Taoiseach will agree the initial proposals on decentralisation by former Minister for Finance, Mr. McCreevy, took everyone by surprise and seemed to be written on the back of an envelope. Does the Taoiseach at this stage have specific proposals on how decentralisation will function? For example, will he spell out how often decentralised staff in his Department will have to commute to Dublin for specific meetings? Is technology for the most modern web-conferencing facilities in place in the Taoiseach's Department, as I see a role for such technology?
A huge range of organisations has moved out and by and large the functions have been worked out with regard to where people are going and where the offices are, along with their modus operandi. Civil Service unions and management staff have worked that out.
In most of the sections there is not that much traffic back to the city. For the future, even for those coming back, web-conferencing is the way to go. I entirely agree with the Deputy. We use such conferencing in my own Department for meetings between ourselves and the British Government. Otherwise my staff would constantly be going backward and forward. Most of our ongoing meetings with the British officials, except perhaps a monthly one, are being done through web-conferencing.
I will not state it is the best technology. Being honest, it is far from the best technology I have seen. I have seen the best technology in this regard in different corporations here and it is quite unbelievable. I will not mention company names but some of the best web-conferencing facilities in the world can be seen in this country, where one can literally feel he or she is in the room with people on the other side.
Our technology is poor in comparison but it does the job. On investment for the future, there is no reason Secretaries General or departmental heads cannot sit down and do their business with such technology. I am told that within five years the cost of very good conferencing facilities will be very affordable and will not be a great burden on companies. What we use currently is not brilliant but it certainly fulfils the obligation. Looking out over the next five years there is no reason a departmental head would not be able to link in to several agencies or Departments from a Dublin base, where the head would probably be, on a Monday morning. We are already at that stage and we just have to perfect it. It is the way of the future.
Web-conferencing is great but if we had broadband around the country it might make it much easier.
There is 85% penetration.
We will leave that debate for another day.
We will leave it for another member of Government.
I wish to ask about the number of staff in the Taoiseach's Department who have decentralised or moved compared to the number of staff who have transferred from the Department to other Departments in Dublin. Currently, some staff being decentralised are moving from one room to another and are being designated as decentralised staff because they have been redeployed within the same building.
What is the level of real decentralisation from Dublin to the regions? Will the Taoiseach provide an example from his own Department of how many people have transferred to other Departments in Dublin compared to those who have actually decentralised?
My Department is relatively small. Some 18%, nearly a fifth, of the Department want to go up to this year. Of 39, 29 are still in my Department. They have requested to be decentralised and ten of them have gone via other Departments or agencies. The overall figure this year is 1,000.
With regard to the planned structure there is now an agreement and these issues have been worked out by the OPW and the decentralisation committee. By 2009 the number will be 6,800. It is a three-year programme; in 2007 it will be 1,000, in 2008 it will be approximately 3,500 and by the end of 2009 the number will reach 6,800. There is confidence this can be done. The process will take in 29 locations, where Departments already have offices or offices are being built.
Departmental Expenditure.
Enda Kenny
Question:6 Mr. Kenny asked the Taoiseach if there is a corporate procurement plan in place in his Department; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [43905/06]
Trevor Sargent
Question:7 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if procurement procedures in his Department take into account carbon footprint of the goods and services sought; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6331/07]
Trevor Sargent
Question:8 Mr. Sargent asked the Taoiseach if his Department will become carbon neutral by 2010; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [6332/07]
Pat Rabbitte
Question:9 Mr. Rabbitte asked the Taoiseach his plans to ensure that his Department will become carbon neutral by 2010; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [8368/07]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 6 to 9, inclusive, together.
Following a detailed analysis of our current arrangements in the procurement of goods and services, a corporate procurement plan has been prepared with a view to improving the procurement function within my Department. The plan sets objectives to improve the way the Department acquires and pays for goods and services. The plan will be kept under review, especially in respect of amendments which may be necessary arising from a possible move to a shared financial services platform.
My Department complies with guidance on the procurement of supplies and services as set out in the public procurement guidelines, as well as implementing as appropriate all additional procurement guidelines published by the Department of Finance. These guidelines set out the steps to be followed in conducting an appropriate competitive process under EU and national rules.
The EU procurement directives allow for certain environmental criteria to be considered in the procurement process and the Government is preparing an action plan for green public procurement, with the aim of achieving by 2010 a level of green procurement equal on average to that achieved by best performing EU member states. The plan will focus on issues such as targets to be achieved, how to drive the adoption of green procurement by public and semi-public authorities, indicators for measuring progress and the legal and administrative framework for public procurement.
Reflecting the Department's broader policy remit, we have included in our corporate procurement plan a commitment to support waste recycling and energy saving, as well as the use of recycled paper, wherever possible.
What is the level of best practice within the European Union referred to by the Taoiseach in respect of public procurement? The Irish public sector spends approximately €19 billion every year in buying goods and services. In 2004, for example, the Northern Ireland office identified a three-year public service saving of approximately €250 million in their spend of €1.7 billion in buying public services and so on.
The Fine Gael and Labour parties, in a document entitled The Buck Stops Here, recommended the establishment of a public buying office which would operate within the Department of Finance and which would report to the Minister of State at that Department. Given the scales and volumes involved in purchasing goods and services for the Department of the Taoiseach and other Departments, does the Taoiseach believe the idea of a public buying office would be of great benefit? It would be possible to purchase significant quantities and the scales of economies could therefore apply in the public interest. There could be serious savings.
What is the Government's point of view? Has the Department of the Taoiseach put forward any particular views on the issue?
For many years the OPW has centralised buying contracts and the Department of Finance public procurement guidelines cover that. Most of the departmental costs are under contracts under the procurement policies of the Department of Finance, with the OPW being the centralised buyer in a large range of areas.
Expenditure in operating my Department is incurred across a range of goods and services, including travel services, staff training and development, telecommunications and office equipment, premises expenses, information technology, and library and consultancy costs. The average annual cost is approximately €3 million.
In accordance with the guidelines of the Department of Finance published approximately three years ago, every Department must have a procurement plan, which is a detailed analysis of procurement activities and expenditure. This was undertaken because it provides information on a great amount of expenditure in the various categories of procurement, which will inform departmental practices in future. Every Department does this, but it feeds into the better guidelines of the procurement section in the Department of Finance.
My Department complies with the guidance on the procurement of supplies and services as set out in the guidelines. The guidelines not only cover Irish issues regarding competitive tendering, but also EU and national rules. It is not the case that each Department buys on its own. As all of the duplicated expenditure is being centralised, we get big economies of scale.
The increased complexity and importance of purchasing decisions by public bodies is leading to a far more strategic focus and improved management of the public procurement process. The effective and efficient procurement policy, the procedures and the practices can have a significant impact on the accountability and value for money aspects of the purchase of goods and services by the State. The potential for real savings from more effective procurement policies and practices is significant. The OPW can show a considerable amount of data, which we get all of the time. Achieving savings is important because it frees up resources that can be redirected to other services.
The procurement section in the Department of Finance has examined better outcomes internationally and is always looking for improved compliance with existing rules and better moves. My only worry in this regard is that we in this country are sometimes very pure in terms of how we follow these rules as opposed to other countries. We go all over the world to get the best value for money, sometimes at the expense of our own companies. My colleagues on the Council and those in Fine Gael's European grouping find imaginative ways around EU procurement rules to keep business at home.
That is true.
There is a down side in that one can get the best value for money, but one can affect jobs at home. That is my only argument, but I lose it usually because we tend to play by the rules in this country.
The main aim of the national policy on procurement is to achieve value for money while having regard to probity and accountability. While price is important in determining value for money, the outcome of procurement, particularly for certain categories of purchases, is not the only variable to be considered. Value for money also encompasses non-cost factors. When purchasing goods or services, consideration should be given to whether they are fit for the purpose intended and of sufficient quality and whether the level of service support provided meets the requirements. These issues are covered well.
The national public procurement policy unit was set up in the Department of Finance five years ago. Its role is to develop public sector procurement policy and practice and it has done a good job in changing practices across the public sector. It is an active section in terms of trying to enforce value for money, but there is an issue when contracts become larger because they then fall under the EU directive. The contracts will be won internationally, but some significant countries do not play by the same purist rules as we do. This sometimes has a negative effect on companies, particularly those in the printing industry, where many large contracts are going outside the country, but if one follows the guidelines the way one should, there is not much that can be done about that.
On the plans of the Department of the Taoiseach to become carbon neutral, has a target date been set and what changes might be imposed on the Department? Has any comparison been carried out between, for example, the greater use of commercial travel and ministerial travel in terms of yesterday's discussion? I appreciate that the business of Government is becoming more complex and I understand the need for speedy travel arrangements, but the figure in question has climbed dramatically in recent years. We have just had an exchange about the capacity of modern technology to ease that burden. I presume this is a dimension of the Department of the Taoiseach's performance that has a significant impact in terms of carbon emissions.
There is a plan across Departments, including mine, to help reduce carbon emissions. It covers a range of areas. I will return to the matter of travel in a minute, but the plan deals particularly with recycling, reusing and how we handle old machines, such as computers, copiers and so on. There is a rigorous plan to comply with the needs. It comes down to the lights policy, namely, turning out lights. It is a detailed plan and is being monitored.
Following the plan is a bit easier in my Department because there are people in the building 24 hours a day, including military police. It is easy to keep everything in line. There is a procurement plan regarding purchases that take account of environmental needs. There are plans to do even more and the Department would admit that we could do new things, ranging from brown bins to using some parts of old computers. A big effort is being made.
On transport, the Department is trying to do more work regarding conference meetings to cut down on the level of travel. To be frank, this has as much to do with the efficiency of the Department as it does with the carbon footprint, but there are more and more conference meetings. For example, the touring Presidency is fast dying as a practice. We are in March and I have not seen my German colleagues, but I have heard them. The Deputy knows how the situation would have been in the past. A big effort is being made.
In terms of the value for money of transport, we do not have as many Brussels-based meetings, which are mainly attended by my officials. A lot can be done via conference sessions to reduce the amount of committee meetings being held in Brussels. The Irish Presidency's dramatic reduction in the number of meetings is holding well. We do not need 200 people or 300 people to attend the meetings. If everyone limited it to 15 people or 20 people for the bigger countries, we could cut down on a lot of travel. There are practical things that can be done. We have a small team, but some countries' teams are of ridiculous sizes.
I welcome that the Department of the Taoiseach will become carbon neutral at some stage, but does the Taoiseach agree that as leader of the country, he should lead by example? Will he tell the House what he will do to reduce his carbon footprint? I do not expect to see him on a bicycle soon, but will he change his car and take public transport occasionally so he can see what people must suffer? If he saw what people must deal with, he might improve the situation. I hope the Taoiseach agrees that climate change is the biggest change facing humanity and by extension the most important electoral issue. Will he make that statement here today? Would he also agree that, as the Minister for Communications, Marine and Natural Resources, Deputy Noel Dempsey, has said, what we need now is an all-party agreement as regards climate change? Would the Taoiseach be prepared to make that statement?
This question refers specifically to the Department of the Taoiseach.
The Taoiseach is here in front of me and he leads that Department.
It is a matter for the Department.
I would very much welcome a statement by the Taoiseach.
I think Deputy Gormley might agree that what we are doing as regards recycling, which comes under my Department, is significant. We have come from very low levels of recycling in this country to extraordinary achievements. We have gone way ahead of our targets and surpassed what other countries are doing. We are way ahead in terms of EU levels. In the climate change strategy as well as the White Paper, both of which will be published before Easter, we have set out the actions to be taken, including a steeply ambitious target to deliver one third of the electricity from renewable sources by 2020, optimising the use of new technology for co-generation of power stations with biomass and planning, the use of carbon capture, a clean goal generation technology, creating new opportunities for farmers in bio-fuel production, a new bio-fuel industry, introducing minimal requirements for the use of bio-fuels in State companies, public transport, requiring the public sector to lead the way in energy efficiency, improving the energy efficiency of new homes by up to 40%——
The Taoiseach and his Department.
I am promoting and pressing all of these policies. I was on the DART twice recently and the Deputy is right. I came to realise how much better it is and how much more sociable and efficient than being stuck in traffic. The Deputy was perfectly right.
The Taoiseach should try a train sometime.
I was on the Luas as well and he is right that the standard of public transport has changed dramatically. I have not been on the new buses yet, but I shall try that, too, through the new bus corridors.
One cannot get a bus to Donnycarney.
He is correct in saying these are better ways to travel than being stuck in traffic.
One cannot get a bus in north central Dublin.
I passed Deputy Finian McGrath the other day while I was in the car and he was walking, so I accept he was giving good example.
I was bopping.