Vol. 683 No. 4
44 Deputy Charles Flanagan asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the bed capacity in each prison; the number of prisoners incarcerated at each location; the action he proposes to take in respect of prison overcrowding; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21853/09]
45 Deputy Pat Rabbitte asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform if his attention has been drawn to the concern expressed by an association (details supplied) at the extent of overcrowding in prisons and the warning of the atmosphere that the overcrowding is creating; his plans for the provision of additional prison places in view of the collapse of the Thornton Hall project; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21686/09]
I propose to take Questions Nos. 44 and 45 together.
There has been a consistent increase in the total prisoner population over recent years. It was particularly apparent over the past 12 months during which time the total number in custody increased by 267, a 7% rise in the number in custody. Several reasons are responsible for this increase, in particular the extra resources provided by the Government to the Garda Síochána which has been increasingly successful in prosecuting criminals and extra court sittings which have resulted in higher committal rates.
There is no evidence the courts are excessive in their use of the sanction of imprisonment. Figures produced by the Courts Service suggest only a quarter of indictable offences brought before the District Court and the Circuit Court result in immediate prison sentences. Use is made of fines, community service, probation, restorative justice and suspended sentences. Nevertheless, there are many circumstances where a custodial sentence is the only appropriate outcome and the spaces for those people sent to prison by the courts must be provided.
Despite increasing the stock of prison accommodation, I have acknowledged that prison overcrowding is an issue. While our rate of imprisonment is lower, and the level of overcrowding less, than many of our EU neighbours such as the UK or France, it does not take away from our responsibility to address this issue.
On 22 May 2009, there were 3,642 permanent beds available in the prison system with 3,853 prisoners in custody, representing an occupancy level of 106%. The table which I propose to circulate in the Official Report will provide a breakdown of the population of each prison and place of detention on 22 May 2009.
Significant investment has been made in the criminal justice system in recent years, not least in the prison system. The Prison Service has been engaged in an extensive programme of investment in prisons infrastructure involving both the modernisation of the existing estate and the provision of extra prison spaces. Since 1997, in excess of 1,300 prison spaces have come on stream in the prison system. These include the new prisons in Castlerea, the Midlands, Cloverhill, the Dóchas Centre and new accommodation in Limerick Prison.
Despite this significant investment, it is quite clear that in some of our prisons, we are operating in excess of our bed capacity. However, in the short to medium term this issue will be addressed by the provision of 400 prison spaces by mid-2009 by means of the following: a new remand block in Castlerea Prison which will accommodate approximately 100 prisoners; a new block in Portlaoise Prison which will accommodate approximately 150 prisoners; and a new block in Wheatfield Prison which will accommodate 150 prisoners, due to be completed in the summer of 2009. Recently over 30 extra spaces have been made available at the open centre at Shelton Abbey and a further 40 at the open centre at Loughan House.
The prisons have contingency plans in place whereby they can accommodate numbers above their ideal working capacity. Given the serious pressure the Prison Service has been experiencing during the past 18 months, in 2008 it became necessary to introduce additional contingency accommodation through the doubling up of cells in Mountjoy, Wheatfield, Cloverhill, Midlands and Arbour Hill prisons and in the training unit. This provided 180 bed spaces.
As the pressure shows no sign of abating, the Prison Service recently decided to increase its capacities through the doubling up of further cells in Mountjoy, Wheatfield, Cloverhill, Midlands and Arbour Hill prisons and in the training unit, creating 200 additional temporary bed spaces, some of which are already in place and others coming on stream shortly.
The Government is firmly committed to replacing the prisons on the Mountjoy complex with modern prison accommodation at Thornton. I intend to bring comprehensive new proposals to the Government in the next fortnight setting out how we can proceed with building a new, modern, regime-orientated and cost effective prison complex at Thornton that best meets the taxpayers' interests. Following consideration of these proposals by the Government I will make a public announcement on this matter.
|
Prison — Place of Detention |
Bed Capacity |
No. in custody |
|
Arbour Hill Prison |
148 |
157 |
|
Castlerea Prison |
228 |
271 |
|
Cloverhill Prison |
431 |
442 |
|
Cork Prison |
272 |
293 |
|
Dóchas Centre |
85 |
106 |
|
Limerick Prison (male) |
275 |
294 |
|
Limerick Prison (female) |
20 |
19 |
|
Loughan House |
150 |
126 |
|
Midlands Prison |
469 |
498 |
|
Mountjoy Prison (male) |
540 |
678 |
|
Portlaoise Prison |
210 |
110 |
|
Shelton Abbey |
100 |
95 |
|
St. Patrick’s Institution |
217 |
228 |
|
Training Unit |
107 |
114 |
|
Wheatfield Prison |
390 |
422 |
|
Total |
3,642 |
3,853 |
Additional information not given on the floor of the House
There is agreement on all sides of this House that we need to replace Mountjoy Prison complex. What is at issue now is how to do that having regard to the current financial climate. I am strongly of the view that building new prison facilities at Thornton Hall on a greenfield site will open up new opportunities for the development of structured regime activities that support rehabilitation and resettlement of prisoners. The Mountjoy complex — due in the main to the limitations of the prison infrastructure there — does not allow for the range or diversity of programmes that a new greenfield site offers. In developing its design concept for Thornton, the Irish Prison Service sought and continues to seek to deliver a modern, operationally efficient and cost effective facility which will provide decent living conditions for prisoners with appropriate support programmes, including the provision of modern facilities for prison staff. I acknowledge that there will be some delay in achieving our aim but the commitment to modernise our prison estate is of paramount importance to me and the Government.
At approximately €2,000 a week or €100,00 per year per prisoner, society is getting bad value for money from its prison system. There is a need now, more than ever before, for a fundamental rethink of our prisons policy given the revolving door nature of the system. Statistics clearly show a recidivism rate of 50%, with people often back in prison within four years. There is no strategic management of the prison populations or case management of individual prisoners. We now have a real problem of chronic overcrowding in the prison system which the Minister is not addressing. He has told the House before of his plans to make extra prison spaces available this summer. We are now at the end of May and the prison population is increasing by 1% per month. The contingency accommodation that the Minister spoke about is actually the governor's office in Mountjoy Prison and many reception areas in prisons doubling up as cells.
Has the Deputy a question?
This is no way to run our prisons. When exactly will the 400 extra prison spaces that the Minister has spoken about in the House for the past several months become available?
I do not accept we are getting bad value for money. Ireland has one of the lowest percentage of prisoners to population in comparison with most other EU member states. As for the 400 extra spaces, it is obvious the Deputy did not listen to what I said earlier.
I heard the Minister say mid-summer but that is in three weeks.
In the coming weeks 100 new spaces at Castlerea and 150 spaces at Wheatfield will become available. The remaining balance will become available later on. These are new places and I do not accept the allegation that the Government has done little in this respect. We have planned the extra 1,300 prison places over the past ten years with another 400. For the long term, we are examining the prison estate, replacing Mountjoy Prison which is out of date and proceeding with the Thornton Hall project. The Government is also examining means of preventing people entering the prison system through restorative justice and other programmes.
During the last Question Time, the Minister told us there was a 30% increase in the price for Thornton Hall which he described as coming to hundreds of millions of euro. Since then I have been attempting to understand how 30% of the price could come to hundreds of millions of euro. I have been informed the increase in the construction price was actually €30 million, of which 85% is due to sourcing moneys on the international bank markets and 15% due to alterations in the day-to-day operation sought by the Prison Service.
Moreover, I was informed that €30 million of additional construction work was demanded by the Irish Prison Service in changed specifications that were borne by the company and that the company itself made submissions to the Department in respect of a changed specification that is to modern international standards and which would have brought home the project for €40 million less but that this was rejected. This constitutes a dramatically different picture and the Minister should take this opportunity to tell Members whether there is any truth in it, because this information is well-founded.
First, I was neither privy to nor part of any negotiations and have had no contact with either the Léargas consortium or any other consortia that had bid. While I am unsure of the source of Deputy Rabbitte's figures, and it might be illuminating were he to disclose their origin, from the information I have been given by my staff they are not correct. As I stated, the overall increase was more than 30% of the original indicative annual unitary price that had been agreed. As the Deputy may recall, this price was to be paid on a public private partnership basis, that is, as an annual payment over a 25-year period. As I noted earlier, due mainly to the cost of finance the price has increased by 30% since May 2007, when the original preferred bidder was chosen. I believe Deputy Rabbitte referred to a figure of €30 million.
No, the Minister referred to hundreds of millions of euro.
Yes I did. However, the Deputy referred to €30 million.
Yes.
That is not the case and I stand over my comments in respect of hundreds of millions of euro because this is a massive project. As I noted previously, its overall scale is such that this will be a prison for 20 or 30 years time and its overall capacity could be 2,200 spaces, doubled up. While the Deputy has referred to it as a super-prison, it comprises a number of prisons within a single complex. It comprised eight different blocks and was a massive project. Having considered its overall funding, in the circumstances it obviously is not affordable at present——
I will take a brief supplementary from each of the Deputies. I call Deputy Rabbitte first.
I will revert to the Cabinet within the next fortnight with proposals as to how to revisit the entire issue, provided the same capacity is continued with——
Go raibh maith agat. I am anxious to get a brief supplementary.
——while reconsidering the configuration.
No one outside this House would believe this. The biggest prison building project in the history of the State is the responsibility of the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform. He tells the House piously that he does not know anything about the figures, that he has nothing to do with it and that he does not meet——
No, I did not state that I did not know anything about the figures. I stated the Deputy's figure of €30 million was not correct and he should not misquote me.
The Minister stated he was not involved.
Members are entitled to know. Were I Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, I would know everything there was to be known about this building project. I again ask the Minister whether it is true that the increase in the price from that indicated in 2007 is not hundreds of millions of euro but is approximately €30 million and that it is mainly due to the cost of sourcing money on the international markets. If this is the case, how does the Minister propose to find an alternative developer that can source such funds more cheaply? How can the Minister reject this proposition, on which so much work was done, and offer the House the prospect that he will get someone else to build it far more cheaply?
Whoever is briefing Deputy Rabbitte is doing so with completely incorrect and inaccurate figures. I know the figures and the difference in the unitary annual cost between the time when the preferred bidder was announced, after which negotiations began, and the final offer that was made by that bidder.
It was hundreds of millions of euro.
Over the 25-year lifetime of the contract, it would have cost the taxpayer hundreds of millions of euro more. I considered it in the context both of affordability and the concept of constructing a prison to the proposed scale. The Government will consider constructing a similar prison with the same configuration of spaces but will try to find a way to so do while providing better value to the taxpayer.
A brief supplementary question from Deputy Flanagan.
Ultimately, when I considered the position, having been briefed by my officials on what was the final offer by this consortium, it was decided it could not be afforded on the basis of the additional money that was being sought by the consortium.
I am anxious for the Minister to move along and I call Deputy Charles Flanagan.
Moreover, even at the final stage, the consortium did not come up with a clear indication as to the source of the finance.
I call Deputy Flanagan.
Why does the Minister think he can secure an alternative consortium?
Again, we will consider the issue of Thornton Hall——
Deputy Charles Flanagan has been called for a final supplementary question, otherwise we will be obliged to move on to the next question.
——while trying to provide the same spaces, albeit perhaps on a much more reasonable scale than was conceived originally at the height of the market.
The Leas-Cheann Comhairle will agree this is a matter that must be revisited in some detail, notwithstanding the Minister's confirmation that he is presenting some plans to the Government in the near future. It is important that this House be kept fully informed and this matter will require detailed examination by the Minister of a nature that is not available to Members at present.
In the meantime, having regard to the long-fingered Thornton Hall project, a real problem arises. The Minister will be aware of the case of Gary Douch, who died in Mountjoy Prison when in a cell with six others. Overcrowding in the Minister's prisons is fuelling discontent and violence within prisons, adds to a low level of morale among staff and is highly dangerous.
I will allow a final reply from an tAire.
Members seek assurances from the Minister that he is on top of this issue, which is a real and pressing problem within the justice system.
Again, the direct day-to-day running of the prison is the responsibility of the Irish Prison Service and I am in constant contact with its director in respect of this issue. Obviously, our record speaks for itself. Both Deputies Flanagan and Rabbitte were members of a Government that stopped the prison building programme.
That was years ago.
While the Deputy may state that was ages ago, one cannot build prison spaces overnight and one must plan for the short, medium and long term, which is what the Government has done by building 1,300 spaces since 1997.
The Government had the golden years of the Celtic tiger and failed to build the prisons. It is too late now because the Government lacks the money.
Allow the Minister to conclude.
The Government restarted the prison building programme, which had been in abeyance for three years when Deputy Flanagan's party was last in government. The Government has provided 1,300 spaces and will put in another 400 by mid-summer——
Of what year?
——and is considering the long term, which is Thornton Hall. The Government should be given credit in this regard.
46 Deputy Charles Flanagan asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform his views on the performance and operation of the Garda Reserve; if a review is contemplated; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21854/09]
On 30 April 2009, there were 322 attested reserve gardaí with a further 198 at various stages of training making a total of 520.
The Government is strongly committed to the development of the Garda Reserve. I am fully satisfied that the reserve provides, and will continue to provide, a valuable contribution to the Garda Síochána and to the many communities in which it operates. In particular, I wish to express my appreciation to the members of the reserve who serve on a voluntary basis.
An internal operational review of the Garda Reserve was carried out in 2008. Arising from this review, I understand the Garda Commissioner is examining certain proposals on enhancing the role of the Garda Reserve.
I welcome the Minister's remarks and while the Garda Reserve concept is worthwhile, it will flounder in the absence of a political buy-in on the part of the Government. With particular reference to the current review, is the Minister aware there is no medical cover for the Garda Reserve, should any member suffer injury or a condition that would require medical treatment in the course of his or her duty? I suggest there are fairly significant dangers within the Garda Reserve at present in respect of assaults, threats and intimidation and refer to the lack of powers of arrest on the part of a reserve member. This has a consequence of weakness and will ensure that the reserve does not reach the capacity it might otherwise do. I ask the Minister to ensure that this review happens as a matter of urgency and that the House would be consulted, having regard to what is a very good concept that unfortunately does not appear to have the political will to allow it to reach its true potential within society.
I do not accept it has not got the political will it requires. This Government set up the Garda Reserve so I do not know what the Deputy is talking about. As far as I am concerned, I was down——
The political will is in the Bar Library.
I was in Templemore recently when substantial numbers of Garda reserves were attested and they are now out on the streets. The fact is that under existing legislation they have relatively minor powers in regard to policing, and are allocated to station duty, other than the care and custody of prisoners; communication room duty, to include the monitoring of CCTV; foot patrol when accompanied by a member of the permanent Garda service; and road traffic checkpoint duties when accompanied by a full-time garda. When they are out on duty, they must always be accompanied by a full-time garda.
As I said, a review has been completed which the Garda Commissioner is considering and I expect him to report on some of the recommendations in that respect. Obviously, any changes that are to be made will be discussed, whether at the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights or, if it requires further legislation, we can discuss it in plenary session. I assure the Deputy there is an absolutely full commitment on my and the Government's part to build up to the number outlined in An Agreed Programme for Government, which is 10% of the force over the lifetime of the Government.
The lack of political will is seen in the results to date. One of the Minister's predecessors, whom he sat beside in Government, had a target plan of 4,000 reservists. The Minister has given the figure of approximately 10% but he then says there is no problem with commitment or political will. Of course there is. For example, there needs to be an examination of the upper age limit, the fact that thousands of people are applying but very few are accepted and the fact that there is no kudos or benefit in the form of credits to a member of the Garda Reserve which might help the reservist should he or she wish to apply for membership of the full Garda Síochána. We should consider best international practice across the water and throughout continental Europe in the context of having a reserve force that is meaningful.
I would not disagree with the Deputy in regard to using the Garda Reserve as at least a part of the gateway to becoming a full-time member of the Garda Síochána. It is an issue we should consider and we are doing so at present. Again, while a large number of people are applying, one cannot just put anyone out on the street and there must be good vetting of applicants. We have been extremely impressed with the calibre of people who are coming forward and who are going through the system. As I said, they have limited enough powers but this is as it should be. This is a new concept and we should walk before we run. I do not accept the figure of 4,000. The figure in the programme for Government is 10% of the overall force of approximately 14,000, which gives a figure of approximately 1,400 for the reserve.
That is a watering down of the proposal.
This is a commitment over the lifetime of the Government. Given the fact that substantial numbers are already attested and a substantial number are still in training, those figures will be reached over the lifetime of the Government.
The former Minister, Mr. Michael McDowell's figures are in the bin.
This is the target of the current Government.
Just 10%. It is the first time the Minister said that.
That is the commitment. The Deputy sometimes incorrectly complains that we do not comply with the commitments we make.
47 Deputy Pat Rabbitte asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform the number of applications received to date in 2009 for early retirement from members of the Garda; the way this compares to the same period in each year from 2002; his views on reports that a significant number of senior gardaí are planning to take early retirement as a result of the public service pension levy; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21687/09]
I am informed by the Garda Commissioner that 178 members of the Garda Síochána have voluntarily retired in the first four months of this year. This compares to 74 in the same period last year, 33 the previous year and 62 the year before that. A breakdown of figures for other years is not immediately available. Clearly, the rate of early retirements is increasing compared to previous years but, equally, it is not possible to predict with certainty the number of retirements for the full year. A not unexpected factor in the level of retirements this year is the impact of the three-year extension of the retirement age which was extended to the Garda Síochána in 2006. This means that gardaí who would in the normal course have been due to retire from the force in 2006 on age grounds are now due to retire in the current year.
It is my top priority to maintain the crime-fighting capacity of the Garda Síochána. In this regard, the Garda Commissioner, mindful of the general moratorium on public service appointments and of the need to make a strong case for any exceptions, has carefully assessed the capacity available to him at a senior level within the Garda Síochána. The Commissioner's approach has been to identify those posts which are especially important for operational policing. As a result of a submission from the Garda Commissioner and following agreement with my colleague, the Minister for Finance, I submitted a proposal to the Government yesterday for the appointment of three chief superintendents and ten superintendents as an exceptional measure. I am pleased to say that the Cabinet made the appointments. I will continue to keep the situation under review.
The Deputy will also be aware that there has been a very considerable increase in Garda resources in recent years, with the number of attested members rising from 10,968 at the end of 1997 to 11,895 at the end of 2002, to 13,755 at the end of 2007 and to 14,478 in the most recent figures. Even in this year of budgetary constraints, some 900 student gardaí will become attested. These significant increases in Garda resources mean that the force is well-placed to absorb the impact of budgetary constraints and to continue to provide a top-class policing service.
Does this mean the Minister discounts the advice given to him by the AGSI, whose members told him they feared for the capacity to discharge their managerial functions given the expected rate of early retirement? When he gives me the figure for the number who have left in the first four months of this year, has he figures available with regard to the prospective retirements for the rest of the year? When he states the extension of retirement age is a factor, is he suggesting that issues such as the pension levy are not a factor at all? Is he not mindful of the advice given to him by those at various levels of the Garda Síochána, who said this would drive a number of them out early? Is he suggesting their fear that their gratuity would be taxed is no longer the case and that they need not fear this? Can he say how his target of 15,000 for the end of year is likely to be affected by this haemorrhage of early retirements?
We cannot give an indication of what the overall figure for retirements over the year will be. It was always indicated, even before any recent announcements in the budget or in regard to moratoriums and so on, that over a three-year period, given the fact there was an extension in regard to age back in 2006, there would always be a spike in these years, particularly at the current time. However, that is not the only reason. There are quite a number of gardaí of an age and service level who could retire, given that under the regulations for Garda retirement a garda with 30 years service may retire on a full pension at any time once he or she reaches the age of 50 years for those who joined prior to 2004 and at age 55 for those who joined since that date. Obviously, there would be a considerable number of gardaí in this category. When one considers that the number of gardaí coming into the system has rapidly increased, it is the case that we have to keep a very close eye on the management level. This is one of the reasons I went to Cabinet yesterday in regard to the filling of vacancies. The Garda Commissioner is extremely happy with the result of the Cabinet deliberations in that respect in that three new chief superintendents and ten superintendents have now been nominated.
On that point, I understand there are 181 superintendents, 101 of whom are eligible to retire, and 43% of the ranks of ordinary gardaí have five years service or less. Clearly, there is an emerging problem. The Minister seems reluctant to give us details of his Department's assessment of the impact of recent impositions on the public service, including the Garda Síochána. How will the early Garda retirement age affect the capacity of the management of the force to discharge its functions? The Government had set a target of having 15,000 members of the Garda by December 2009, but what does the Minister anticipate that the actual figure will be?
I have indicated previously that the figure is expected to be approximately 14,900. There are approximately 900 gardaí in training as we speak. It is probable that 900 new gardaí will come on stream between now and the end of the year. I cannot dictate whether there will be an increase in the number of retirements. It is a matter for individual gardaí, as they approach retirement age and fulfil the criteria that are laid down, to decide when they will retire. It is obvious that retirement patterns have to be monitored. I do not doubt that there has been an increase. It was anticipated that there would be a spike in retirements as a consequence of the extension of the overall retirement age. It has to be said that the views being expressed by the public about the public sector in general might be causing people to leave the sector.
The retirement scheme that was announced in the recent supplementary budget does not apply to the Garda Síochána, to which specific retirement criteria apply. The Garda retirement regime is a favourable one, in recognition of the fact that the members of the force do a very difficult job 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Particular arrangements have been made for gardaí over the years for that reason. There is no doubt that we have to examine the emerging retirement figures, particularly in these tough times. The Government will keep this matter under review in the context of the moratorium on recruitment.
48 Deputy Denis Naughten asked the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform his plans to address the proliferation of brothels; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [21855/09]
I am informed by the Garda authorities that they have conducted a number of operations to combat brothel-keeping, prostitution and human trafficking. The Garda will continue to conduct such operations, in line with the intelligence available to it. A recent investigation by the Garda National Bureau of Criminal Investigation, in conjunction with a number of other police forces, resulted in the apprehension in another jurisdiction of individuals suspected of brothel-keeping in this country. The operation led to the seizure of a substantial volume of evidence. Cash and other property discovered during the operation will be the subject of a proceeds of crime application to the courts. Similar operations are being and will continue to be carried out. I emphasise that the criminal law relating to brothel-keeping is strong. I am aware of concerns that people are being trafficked for the purposes of prostitution. The Criminal Law (Human Trafficking) Act 2008 has greatly strengthened the law in this area. A dedicated anti-human trafficking unit was established in my Department in February 2008 to ensure that the State's response to human trafficking is co-ordinated and comprehensive. In addition, the Garda has recently established a human trafficking investigation and co-ordination unit. My Department recently received the report of the Immigrant Council of Ireland, Globalisation, Sex Trafficking and Prostitution — The Experiences of Migrant Women in Ireland. The report is extensive in scope. I have asked the anti human trafficking unit to examine the report, its findings and its recommendations. When this examination is completed, I will consider what further action might be necessary arising from the report.
I thank the Minister for his response. He will be aware that one of the headline figures identified by the Immigrant Council of Ireland estimates that the sex industry in Ireland is worth approximately €180 million per annum. It is clear that there is a connection between brothel-keeping and criminal activity. The most recent report of the Independent Monitoring Commission, which was published on 7 May last, suggested that the Continuity IRA is involved in this industry. A crackdown on brothel-keeping and prostitution is taking place in other parts of Europe. Red light districts in the Netherlands are being reduced by one third because the authorities in that country have decided that their liberal policies are failing. New legislation that is being introduced in the UK will lead to a clampdown in that country. Unless we are prepared to tighten this country's laws, there could be a growth in this industry here. Does the Minister have any specific proposals for dealing with the threat that might result from the curtailment of these activities in other EU member states?
I assure the House that this country's legislation in respect of brothel-keeping and the sex industry in general is strict and strong. I will not mention all the legislative provisions that are in place. The Garda has been very active in this area. A number of operations, including Operation Hotel, Operation Quest, Operation Snow and Operation Boulder, have been ongoing over recent years. They have focused in particular on non-Irish nationals who have been brought to this State for the purpose of employment in the sex industry. The Garda has been working quite successfully with its European counterparts in this respect. The Deputy is right to highlight the use by criminal gangs of the sex industry to increase their ill-gotten gains. The Garda is extremely conscious of the need to cross-reference when it is dealing with this issue.
Is the Minister concerned that the crackdown on this industry in the UK, including Northern Ireland, will lead to an increase in this activity in this country? One of the conclusions of Operation Quest was that mobile phones are the lifeblood of this country's brothel-keeping and prostitution industry. If certain mobile numbers were to be taken off this country's mobile phone system, that would immediately close down a huge proportion of that industry. Will the Minister ensure that such a step is taken to curtail the proliferation of the industry?
That is something the Garda can look at.
Looking at it is no good.
What was the other issue the Deputy asked about?
I also asked about the impact of the new UK legislative proposals on this jurisdiction.
Gardaí work closely with their colleagues on the other side of the Border and elsewhere in the UK.
Is the Minister concerned?
I would not like to fuel the perception that Ireland has a more lax regime, in some way, than the UK.
We will have a more lax regime.
The Garda works closely with its counterparts across the Border and elsewhere in the UK, in particular. It also works with police forces on the Continent.
There will be a major loophole if this legislation goes through.
