Topical Issue Debate

Broadband Service Provision

Deputy Brian Stanley

I have raised this issue of broadband with successive Ministers. I note the current Minister has an interest in this. He is trying to advance it but progress has been very slow in this regard.

The national broadband plan was first published by the then Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Mr. Pat Rabbitte, in 2012. It is now 2018 and there has been little progress on the broadband plan itself. There is the scheme being rolled out by Eir to capture 288,000 households but in the midlands, there are significant deficits in broadband coverage. In Laois, for example, there are 12,700 households in the amber area that are not being covered under the Eir scheme. In Offaly, there are 12,420 and in Westmeath, there are a further 12,000 plus. Putting all that together, more than 37,000 households in those three midlands counties are in the amber area that will not be covered under the Eir scheme and must wait for the national broadband plan.

My party has raised this time and time again and I have raised my concerns about the route the Government is taking with it. Many, regardless of where they stand on this issue, would privately agree with some of the issues that I have been raising in this regard.

The procurement process was supposed to happen in a fairly efficient manner. The programme for Government, in which the Government committed to it, states that the Government "will also provide additional exchequer capital, if needed, to deliver on our commitment to bring next generation broadband to every house and business in the country [including Laois, Offaly, Westmeath] by 2020". The date by which we have to get this off the blocks is one year and 11 months away.

The Government further states in the programme for Government that the tender process for awarding the contract is targeted for June 2017. I understand the best-case scenario is we might see it this year. I hope we do. I hope this happens this year.

It is a most serious issue. The areas affected in Laois include: Coolnabacky in Timahoe, the electoral division of Luggacurren, Graiguecullen, Kilcruise, Spink - huge areas out there - Garrymore, Clonaghadoo and Geashill on the Laois-Offaly border, Fisherstown on the canal in the north of the county, Rosenallis and Ballaghmore. Many of those who cannot get broadband are within a stone's throw of the service being provided and they can see Eir rolling out the service.

I am not one to stop progress or to come in just to have a go for the sake of it. I welcome the progress that has been made in Laois and other counties with the Eir scheme. Constituents say they are getting the service and my party welcomes that. I welcome that a total of 5,063 households or premises in Laois will get broadband under the Eir scheme but there are still 12,721 left that will not. I reiterate that in Offaly and Westmeath, there are 12,420 and 12,019 householders, respectively, who will not get it under the Eir scheme and will have to wait for the national broadband scheme.

This is affecting jobs, farmers, students and small businesses. I have dealt with countless cases of people coming to me who are trying to run small businesses in rural areas.

We must try to get this moving this year. It must be prioritised. We talk about rural development. There will be no rural development if we do not have the infrastructure.

Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment (Deputy Denis Naughten)

I acknowledge that the procurement process that was entered into long before my time as Minister is a very complex process. Knowing what I know today, would I have gone down this road if I were Minister? I do not think so. However, we are where we are.

I will explicitly put on the record that I am working might and main to deliver broadband to every single home and premises throughout Ireland. I will not rest until every single premises the length and breadth of this country has access to high-speed broadband. As the Deputy knows, as a rural Deputy I am acutely aware of the frustration and anger that is felt by people who are so close to broadband but cannot get it - people who need it for their businesses, for education purposes or just to be able to do the day-to-day things in life. This is why, as a rural Deputy, I am determined to ensure we put pressure on to ensure this happens as quickly as possible. I give a commitment to the House that not one day later than is absolutely necessary will every single person in this country get access to high-speed broadband. These families across rural Ireland and their businesses are my focus and I am personally committed to deliver broadband to every single door under the national broadband plan. We are now in the final stages of this procurement process. The national broadband plan is a Government priority and will deliver high-speed broadband to every single citizen and business throughout this country. Our ambition is to achieve 100% coverage of high-speed broadband across Ireland through a combination of accelerated investment by the commercial telecoms companies - they are spending approximately €2 million a day on this - and a State intervention for those parts of the country where there is no certainty that commercial operators will provide a service. The Government's national broadband plan has been very successful in encouraging increased levels of investment by the telecoms sector. When I was appointed Minister just 19 months ago, 52% of premises in Ireland had access to high-speed broadband. Today that figure is over 71%, and by the end of this year it will be 77%. Every single week 300 farms are getting access to up to 1,000 Mbps high-speed broadband. With commercial investment and the Government's national broadband plan, this will rise to more than 90% of premises having access to high-speed broadband by 2020.

Regarding County Laois, my Department's high-speed broadband map, which is available at www.broadband.gov.ie, details where commercial operators will provide a high-speed broadband service and where State intervention will be required. This map has identified approximately 39,000 premises in Laois, of which more than 26,400 will receive high-speed broadband from the commercial sector. This includes 5,200 premises that will be covered by Eir's planned deployment. The remaining 12,600 premises will be covered by the State intervention. Deputy Stanley is right that there are thousands of rural premises right across Laois, Offaly, Westmeath, Roscommon and Galway that need access to high-speed broadband, but this is happening at present. We have seen that the town of Portarlington, Ballybrittas and Crettyard have already got high-speed broadband through the Eir intervention. Portlaoise, Durrow, Mountrath, Rathdowney, Ballylynan, Ballickmoyler, Ballyroan, Abbeyleix, Mountmellick, Borris-in-Ossory, Rosenallis, the Heath, Arless, Ballinakill, Ballintubbert, Ballyfin and Cullahill will have 1,000 Mbps high-speed broadband by the end of this year. The fastest possible broadband available anywhere in the world will be available in these villages and the vast majority of villages across rural Ireland. My determination is to build on that network to provide hot desks in the short term in these communities in order that people do not have to commute to the bigger towns and cities and, by 2020, to see access to high-speed broadband provided to the vast bulk of rural Ireland outside their door.

Deputy Brian Stanley

I thank the Minister for his reply. What he did not tell me is "when". I acknowledge that some places are benefitting under the Eir intervention. I have checked the list, and 5,063 premises or households in the areas the Minister mentioned will benefit. One can see them on the map that was produced with the scheme. That is all welcome. A concern I have about this - I have raised it with the Minister previously, and he might give me an update on it - is the Eir situation. If it services a group of houses or a village on a route and a provider comes in to provide the service beyond that, will that be an obstruction to another company being able to roll out broadband further up the road? The Minister might give me an up-to-date reply on that.

Regarding the commuters, out of a relatively small workforce in Laois, between 11,000 and 12,000 people drive out of the county every day to work. The Minister beside Deputy Naughten, Deputy Ross, is doing his piece with the widening of the M6 and M7 to cater for this, but we need to get some of these people working in the county. I have met directly people who have small businesses and self-employed people who could work in the county. One woman in the eastern side of the county told me she has three employees and they all go to Dublin every day. The only reason they go to Dublin is its infrastructure. If they had the infrastructure in the area where they live, she and her three employees could happily work from a premises there. They do not need a large premises; they work in the IT sector. The county council would get a little revenue from rates paid by her, she would be working locally, the local community and local shops would benefit and we would all benefit from that. That is the kind of thing one comes across: students who cannot access broadband to do homework, etc. I ask the Minister to tell me roughly when this procurement process will be closed. I also heard what he said about what he would do if he were starting out again, that he might not have gone down the route that was taken with the procurement process. He might give me a brief explanation as to what he meant by that.

Deputy Denis Naughten

Regarding the procurement process, a particular approach has been taken. The decision was taken long before my time as Minister and it is a very complex procurement process, but it is a 25-year contract, and people need to be aware of that. It is not just for this decade, but also for the decades to come. A minimum of 5,200 premises in County Laois will get high-speed broadband under the Eir build-out. At present, Eir is looking at some anomalies to see whether it can provide broadband to local community centres and schools that may not have been included in the 300,000 build-out. Laois County Council and all the other local authorities in the midlands have fed back into that process. We are working with both wireless and mobile operators to exploit the fibre that has been built out and that is being built out across the country to provide people with a broadband solution in the short term. I know one company to which we have allocated broadband spectrum that expects to cover 85% of the country with broadband wireless services by 2019. We are also looking at providing hot desks in those towns and villages that I named in order that the woman the Deputy spoke about, along with her three employees, will be able to work from a local community building or local enterprise centre, rather than having to commute to Dublin. We are also working with the local authorities to identify mobile phone and mobile data black spots to see how we can resolve them and put the infrastructure in place in the short term.

Regarding the Deputy's question about Eir and the build-out, because Eir is an incumbent, that allows for the build-out to continue beyond the Eir network. This is all part of the complex procurement process we have been going through over this period. It will come to a completion this year and we will continue the momentum that we have seen to date in the delivery of high-speed broadband to 300 farms a week. That momentum will continue until every single farm, home and premises in Ireland has access to high-speed broadband.

Road Safety

Deputy Alan Kelly

I thank the Minister, Deputy Ross, for coming to the Chamber to answer my questions. In fairness to him, we do not always see eye to eye but he always comes in to deal with the issues I raise and I acknowledge that.

I want to raise two issues regarding our road network that I feel are absolute priorities and I have raised them previously. I raised some of these issues at the Committee of Public Accounts regarding the spending of public funds and I also raised them at the Joint Committee on Transport, Tourism and Sport. I presume the Minister is well aware of the strategy of the Road Safety Authority, RSA, for 2013 to 2020. I am a big supporter of the Road Safety Authority. I welcome that the Minister finally made appointments to the board recently. I support the work of its chairman, Liz O'Donnell, and her team. Among the engineering measures in its seven-year plan, one of the most important is No. 53, which I have raised on several occasions. No 53 of the engineering measures to save people's lives is to carry out 150 minor realignment schemes on the national road network by 2020. I asked Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, about this on a number of occasions and it is going to meet me to discuss it. It has told me it does not have a hope of making that figure. At most it may reach 60 and more likely 50. This means there are 100 black spots throughout the country where there will be no improvement in safety. When I asked Michael Nolan, the very impressive CEO, what the consequence of this will be and whether people would die on the roads, his answer was a very simple "Yes".

The Minister has spoken an awful lot about road safety and, in fairness, I accept his bona fides. I do not always agree with some of the points he makes but I accept his bona fides. I want the Minister to support the Road Safety Authority and ensure he can provide the funding for all 150 of these, or least double from 50 to 100 the number of minor road safety projects the RSA has identified to save people's lives. If this work is not done, the head of Transport Infrastructure Ireland has told me to my face that people will die in 2018, 2019 and 2020. The reason I ask about this today is because the capital plan will be announced in the coming weeks or months and the Minister has the chance to put funding into it.

I encourage the Minister to work with TII to look at safety measures on the M7. There has been an escalation of accidents between Roscrea and Birdhill. People have died. I knew them. May they rest in peace. There are safety issues such as why the Roscrea and the Moneygall on-and-off ramps are shorter, sharper junctions than the long junctions to be found everywhere else on the motorway? They are causing difficulties. I argue there is an engineering issue near Birdhill. Will the Minister ask TII, and provide the funding, to do an analysis of what is happening, given all the accidents there, as well as giving us assurances he is 100% behind the Road Safety Authority in saving lives between now and 2020 by providing the funding it has asked for and planned for in its strategy, which the Minister 100% supports?

Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport (Deputy Shane Ross)

I thank Deputy Kelly for raising this very important issue and I share his great concern for road safety. If we come to the problem with different attitudes and different solutions that is no harm. He referred to road deaths, and every one is a serious tragedy which cannot be in any way redeemed or reversed. It should be tackled from very many angles. There is absolutely no one solution to road safety, and the issue on which Deputy Kelly has put his finger today is undoubtedly one of the problems and undoubtedly, TII has a big role to play in it.

I reassure Deputy Kelly that the high-level committee on road safety has meetings on a far more regular basis now, and on every occasion I ask TII in particular how it is doing in its programme on saving lives, road safety and tackling accident black spots. Let me say in response, that whatever response it gives me will never be sufficient, just as whenever I see the result of the - happily - falling road death figures at present, as a number, it is not satisfactory either.

Every suggestion and proposal which is put and every item of legislation on this issue will be seriously considered, as will the suggestion Deputy Kelly has made today. If we can do any more, we will do so. Simultaneously, Deputy Kelly will acknowledge the Government, and the Government of which he was a member, are and were second to none in terms of their commitment to this issue and the legislation is there to prove it. The legislation to tackle road deaths, which is primarily my job to introduce to the House, has included an attack on drug-driving and drink-driving, and I hope this year we will also be able to introduce an attack on speed. I hope this will save more lives and I hope the projects to which Deputy Kelly referred will be addressed with enthusiasm and energy and will also save lives. Our ambition, of course, is to bring the numbers down to zero. That will probably never happen, but there is huge room for improvement and it applies to the M7 and other roads.

I have responsibility for overall policy and funding for the national roads programme. The planning, design and implementation of individual national road projects is a matter for TII under the Roads Acts, in conjunction with the local authorities concerned. Within its capital budget, the assessment and prioritisation of individual projects is a matter in the first instance for it.

The 150 minor improvement schemes included in the road safety strategy was an overambitious target considering the impact of the recession and the major cutbacks in funding related to it. Notwithstanding that, and the results are not satisfactory, as the Deputy has noted, TII is maintaining an ongoing rolling programme of minor projects. To date, 42 schemes have been completed, six more are under construction and four will go to construction this year. Available funding has allowed the to maintain delivery on a minimum of four schemes each year and to prepare additional schemes on an ongoing basis. I understand TII envisages continuing to undertake a minimum of four schemes a year. This will never be enough when we are talking about road deaths.

Deputy Alan Kelly

I thank the Minister. I have no doubt of his sincerity but we need more than hope. I do not want to be in a situation where in years to come or after a short space of time I will be playing back this video to the Minister and others. If there is not serious consideration of the manner in which the on-off ramps in Roscrea and Moneygall work, as well as an examination of what is happening in Birdhill, which is also something strange, people will die on the M7. I believe that will happen in the near future. It is subject to some weather patterns because it is inland, but there are definitely engineering issues. I ask the Minister to please consult TII and provide it with the funding. It is one of the busiest routes in Ireland. It is the gateway to the south of Ireland. Everyone knows the turnoff for the Barack Obama Plaza and many people go into it.

Birdhill provides access to a range of areas on the west coast. Roscrea and Templemore are on the same road. I ask the Minister to please look at those.

The Minister has admitted that the identification of 150 road safety projects in the Road Safety Authority strategy is overly ambitious. Will the Minister provide a figure in respect of what will be built by 2020? There are 42 projects being done and there is not a hope in hell of getting to 150. As a result of this and the lack of funding, people will die. I am going to examine the 150 projects with TII in the coming weeks. They will be evaluated on the basis of priority and safety. That means some will miss out. How many will miss out and what is the estimated cost in lives as a result of the funding not being provided by the Government?

Deputy Shane Ross

To set a target that would be a hostage to fortune - as was the case with the previous one - would just be foolish. If the Deputy does not question the commitment of TII or the Government to the saving of lives, he can rest assured that the absolute maximum will be done to deal with those black spots to which he refers. TII's commitment is not in doubt-----

Deputy Alan Kelly

I never questioned TII's commitment.

Deputy Shane Ross

Recently, many efforts have been made to address the problem mentioned by the Deputy. In particular, TII recognises the potential benefits of changing to a new fence type on the road in question, where appropriate, and, as the Deputy knows, it is working with Tipperary County Council in this regard. TII has commenced a programme of fencing maintenance along the M7 that will involve the replacement of significant lengths of timber post-and-rail fencing. It is envisaged completion of the works to comply with new fencing standards will be achieved on the M7 in Tipperary by mid 2018. TII is progressing with the programme of works to extend similar fencing alterations to all motorways during 2018. It should be noted that the traditional timber post-and-rail fencing can continue to be used at locations sufficiently remote from traffic lanes and protected from potential vehicle strikes, as determined in accordance with design standards.

I welcome the Deputy's interventions. He must know that TII is acutely aware of the difficulties relating to this road. Every single black spot in the country must be addressed in due course. Every single drunk driver must be caught. These are our ambitions and they are for one purpose alone, namely, to save lives. That is my top priority. Any interventions or suggestions made by the Deputy to or pressure exerted by him on not only me but also TII are more than welcome.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

The next matter is in the name of Deputy Mattie McGrath.

Deputy John Paul Phelan

As láthair.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

As he is not here, we will move to the next matter.

Mental Health Services Provision

Deputy Eugene Murphy

I express my sincere thanks to the Minister of State with responsibility for mental health and older people, Deputy Jim Daly, for coming to the House to address this very serious matter relating to the Rosalie unit at Castlerea, County Roscommon. I commend the Minister of State on acting speedily to meet a deputation from County Roscommon this evening. I appreciate that. I also acknowledge a representation made to the Minister of State by his party colleague, Senator Maura Hopkins.

I call on the Minister of State to provide clarity and answers on the future of the Rosalie unit at Castlerea, County Roscommon. I thank him most sincerely for agreeing to meet a deputation this evening. Like many others, I am deeply concerned that the Health Service Executive, HSE, has reneged on a 2015 promise to keep the Rosalie unit in Castlerea open. Many people fear that closure by stealth is now taking place. This is a pretty new unit. It may be there 20 or 30 years but I am not sure. It is a fine unit, originally designed to cater for 33 people. Now, it is catering for 12 or 13. Many of the residents of the Rosalie unit suffer from Alzheimer's disease or dementia. An embargo on admissions to the unit was put in place in September 2016, despite assurances given the previous year. A former Minister of State at the Department, Ms Kathleen Lynch, told a deputation she met at the time that there were absolutely "no plans to close it and there will be no such plans". The HSE has stated that the intention is to provide care for the residents in the unit as long as this is in the interests of the individual residents. As the Minister of State knows, such language is very vague. Who decides what is in the interests of individual residents? I often wonder about such language. The Minister of State is very passionate about his brief and I know he is very sincere but when somebody in the HSE makes a statement about deciding what is in a person's interest, I do not accept it at all.

Many family members also fear their loved ones could be moved to Ballinasloe, which is a long way from Castlerea. Ballinasloe is in east Galway and Castlerea is in County Roscommon. Such a development would be horrendous for many of the patients currently in the unit and their families. It is sad because this affects some of the people in the unit now. It is of great concern that the Rosalie unit has been closed to new admissions since September 2016. Will the Minister of State clarify the position? I want answers to my questions. Will the unit remain open and will the Minister of State provide a date as to when new residents will be accepted? There are 12 or 13 people in the unit, which has capacity for 33. Over the years, the number of people there has steadily reduced. This is a big issue, not alone in the environs of Castlerea but throughout County Roscommon. We saw large public meetings two years ago but we were satisfied at the time we had got assurances and everything was going to be okay. Now we are very concerned.

I am not saying that the unit will close but the Minister of State knows that when we see this happening, one would wonder how much longer it can remain open. I know a number of people who could not get into any unit over Christmas but who could have used this one for a couple of weeks.

Minister of State at the Department of Health (Deputy Jim Daly)

I thank the Deputy for bringing this important matter to the attention of the Dáil. I also thank him for his generous comments and commend him on acknowledging my colleague, Senator Maura Hopkins. He and the Senator have been very committed to and focused on this matter, ensuring that it has come on my radar for as long as I have been in this job. The people they represent are fortunate to have representatives of their calibre and commitment to this issue and all matters pertaining to mental health. The Deputy is very passionate and genuine about it and has always acknowledged, in a generous fashion, the work of his colleagues, particularly Senator Hopkins.

A Vision for Change sets out a comprehensive policy framework for the development of mental health services. It recommends, broadly, a move from the traditional, institutional-based model of care to a more patient-centred, flexible and community-based service where the need for hospital admission is greatly reduced while still providing inpatient care, as appropriate. This Government has prioritised the reform and resourcing of our mental health services in line with A Vision for Change.

The Rosalie unit, part of Áras Naomh Chaolain, is located in Castlerea, County Roscommon. It is a continuing care facility for psychiatry of later life patients. There are currently 13 residents at the Rosalie unit and the intention of the HSE is to continue to provide care for these residents in line with their identified needs in their individual care plans. The Rosalie unit has been closed to new admissions since 27 September 2016. The HSE indicates that it is not proposed at present to reopen the unit to new admissions.

With respect to the particular query raised by the Deputy, the report of the expert review group on community mental health services in Galway and Roscommon was published in July 2014. The review focused on 59 residential care settings and resources, including the Rosalie centre at Castlerea. The report was based on the guiding principles of patient centredness, equality, access to quality care that is focused on recovery and integration with other mental health and mainstream health services.

The key goal of the report was to make recommendations to ensure service users maximise their full potential and to improve the quality of their lives overall. It advocates that each client is individually assessed and is provided with the most appropriate care relevant to their needs. The local mental health service and, in particular, the psychiatry of later life community mental health team work with clients and their families to develop plans that will improve their quality of life overall. The executive indicates also that capacity exists within the Creagh suite, in Ballinasloe, to accommodate psychiatry of later life patients who have complex continuing care needs. The Creagh suite is an approved centre under the Mental Health Act, which has recently been extensively renovated and modernised to the highest standards and has access to enclosed state-of-the-art gardens.

The HSE has assured me that in its management of the Rosalie unit it has taken due account of the principles laid out in A Vision for Change and the recommendations of the Roscommon report on mental health services. I, in conjunction with the HSE, will closely monitor the development of all community-based mental health services in the Galway-Roscommon area, including those provided at the Rosalie unit.

Deputy Eugene Murphy

I thank the Minister of State for the detailed reply. However, I am deeply concerned about the last few sentences in his statement. Obviously, the HSE has given him this information. My interpretation of it is that it is the HSE's intention to consider moving people to Creagh in Ballinasloe, which is up to 40 miles from Castlerea. Many of the patients in the centre are unsettled because of this news. Their families live locally and can visit and spend time with them. There are great staff in the unit and the people are very happy there. The consultant geriatrician in Roscommon University Hospital, Dr. Gerard O'Mara, said that he believes the unit is being closed by stealth. There is a big demand for an Alzheimer unit in Roscommon, where approximately 2,000 people of all ages suffer from the disease. I believe that is probably the largest number of patients anywhere in the country. We must take account of what a senior medical practitioner says about this, which is that we cannot afford to let this unit close.

We talk about A Vision for Change. We all accept the policy and we all wanted to adopt it. However, we did not all agree completely with every detail in A Vision for Change. My focus is on people being made unhappy, such as Liam's mother, Anita's relation and others who have approached us about it. Their representatives will be here this evening to speak to the Minister of State. They are concerned because their relatives are very unhappy now. We were given commitments two years ago. I ask the Minister of State to do all in his power to stop the HSE making this change. It will cause much despair and upset for people. I acknowledge that the unit in Ballinasloe is great but it is too far away and it will cause upset for the patients.

Deputy Jim Daly

I appreciate the sentiment and passion the Deputy brings to this matter and his concern on behalf of the residents. I would be distressed if the residents were unsure and unsettled because of uncertainty pertaining to their future. I certainly will address that. I will be meeting the Deputy, representatives of the HSE and Senator Hopkins later this evening on this issue. I will also get a sense of the issue from the other people who will be present. As the Deputy knows, I cannot give a commitment as to what will open or close in such situations. However, I agree with him that while A Vision for Change was a great document, it did not get everything right and we did not always make the right decisions. Deputy Mattie McGrath will be aware of what I mean because we have discussed it in his local area. There could have been haste in closing some institutions at the time without sufficient progress being made on building community services and supports for people afterwards and alternative avenues of care. I know a fair amount about Roscommon but not enough, so tonight's meeting will inform me further.

I can give the Deputy a sincere commitment that I will approach this with a fully open mind. I will assist and support the Deputy and his Oireachtas colleagues every step of the way in holding the HSE to open, transparent and full accountability and communication. We will do everything we can to provide assurances, first, to the residents in the Rosalie unit, as well as to the wider community who care so much about it.

Deputy Eugene Murphy

I appreciate that.

Water Services Infrastructure

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Irish Water is proposing to pump yet more water into Dublin’s cripplingly compromised, leaking water supply system. The Shannon project would be one of Ireland’s biggest infrastructure projects, but the analysis on which it was based was littered with mathematical and analytical errors. Corrected analysis, using Irish Water's selected methodology and its current leakage targets, shows that, technically, no new raw water source is needed, although the Kennedy analysis notes that Dublin would benefit from diversification away from its current almost exclusive reliance on surface water sources. A much smaller and less expensive alternative to the Shannon project could provide this. The Shannon project is yet another surface water source and it would be a reckless waste of scarce financial resources.

I mean no disrespect to the Minister of State, Deputy Phelan, but I am disappointed that the Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, is not present. The Kennedy analysis has notified Irish Water of the errors in its analysis and that many of its public statements about the need for this project have been false or highly misleading. Irish Water's reaction to the Kennedy analysis has been highly defensive. Instead of addressing the issues, Irish Water makes unrelated and irrelevant statements. Its responses deny the most undeniable errors and even back-track on issues that it had conceded during its meeting with Emma Kennedy in February 2017. Instead of attempting to justify its position on many issues, Irish Water gives itself a clean bill of health without providing any substance, stating simply: "Irish Water do not accept this observation."

The Minister of State's former colleague and the former Minister, big Phil the enforcer, as I used to call him, set up Irish Water and gave it far too many powers. It is a monstrosity, as I said at the time, and I oppose it. It is also known in Irish as Uisce Éireann. This project is going to be a white elephant like the children's hospital and will cost billions. Irish Water says it will be €1.2 billion but it will probably run up to €2 billion. It is to pump water into the Dublin system where 57% of the water supply is leaking from the pipes. If it was happening in one's household one would not go off and spend €20,000 on something without first getting the pipes fixed. We must cut our cloth according to the measure, as ordinary people who are paying the bills must do. This is outrageous and cannot be allowed to proceed.

I compliment Mr. Minihan in Tipperary on his research on this. He is one of the landowners affected. He is not the only person but he is aware of the madness of it and the measure of the pipe and the corridor required. It will create great construction jobs - I do not deny that - but it is wrong and silly. The leaks must be fixed first. Not only is water leaking from the pipes into the ground, but contamination material is seeping in. Huge amounts of chlorine, fluoride and so forth must be used to clear the water and make it safe to drink, causing huge damage to people's health with cancer risks and so forth. This is madness. It is bonkers, as the Minister for Finance said with regard to the women who had to leave their jobs due to the marriage ban. It is bonkers to spend that type of money and wreck a community in the country to take water that is not needed. Fix the leaks and there will be surplus water in Dublin. The Minister must examine that. Irish Water cannot be allowed to pull the wool over people's eyes like that. If it does it will be a case of fool me once, it is my problem but fool me twice, it is the Government's problem. The Minister of State is an understanding man. He is a saner type than the last man we had from Kilkenny in this area. He was a bully, and nothing short of it.

This project cannot proceed. I am not anti-Dublin and I want it to be given water, but it should fix the leaks first and ensure there is proper accountability for the water already there with meters on all houses and junctions. I was never opposed to that as we must know what we are using. It is a valuable resource. Treated water being pumped in will put more pressure on a system that leaks like a sieve and allows contaminants to seep in from sewers and other substances under the ground. It is not on. I appeal to the Minister not to give me a speech written by Irish Water or by an official in his Department. I urge him to re-examine this and to go back to the drawing board. We cannot have another monstrosity like the children's hospital and Irish Water.

Minister of State at the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government (Deputy John Paul Phelan)

I am obliged to inform Deputy Mattie McGrath of what is in the reply but I will go off script. I do not agree with the Deputy that the children's hospital is a white elephant. It has been spoken about for all of my lifetime, just as this issue has been discussed as well.

I am taking this matter on behalf of the Minister for Housing, Planning and Local Government, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, who could not be here but is glad the Deputy has raised this issue regarding the steps Irish Water has taken to address the need for a new water supply for the eastern and midlands region.

Since 1 January 2014, Irish Water has had statutory responsibility for all aspects of water services planning, delivery and operation at national, regional and local level. Irish Water as a single national utility is taking a strategic, nationwide approach to asset planning and investment and meeting customer requirements.

The requirement for a new supply source for the Dublin water supply area was first identified in the greater Dublin water supply strategic study published in 1996. The greater Dublin area, GDA, is the water resource zone that includes Dublin city and county along with significant sections of counties Kildare, Meath and Wicklow. While the GDA is served by eight individual treatment plants, over 80% of the water is sourced from the River Liffey catchment and 11% is sourced from the River Vartry catchment.

Irish Water assumed responsibility for the project following its establishment in 2014 and published a project need report in 2015, which covered the GDA and a wider benefitting corridor to encompass parts of the midlands. Irish Water reports that the sustainable availability of the GDA raw water sources will be utilised to full capacity by 2026. A new source is, therefore, needed in addition to an ambitious programme of leakage reduction.

Irish Water's proposed water supply project for the eastern and midlands region is the result of extensive studies and research and four phases of public consultation. In total, ten options were identified and examined in detail. Research has covered vast criteria, including geographic, demographic, technical, environmental and economic factors. Feedback received from public consultations has been factored into the development of the final proposal by Irish Water at all stages.

Through this process, the Shannon Parteen basin option was identified as the preferred scheme because, via its pipeline route to Dublin, it will deliver the widest benefit to the greatest number of people with the least environmental impact. The Parteen basin scheme comprises the abstraction of water from the lower River Shannon at Parteen basin in County Tipperary, with water treatment at nearby Birdhill. Treated water will then be piped 170 km to a termination point reservoir in south Dublin. Supplies of treated water will be made available to midland communities along the route.

While parallel work is advancing on water conservation projects in the region and nationwide, water saved from fixing leaks will not be enough to meet future demand. Irish Water indicates that raw water sources for the greater Dublin area will be at capacity by 2026 and that the rest of the eastern and midlands region faces similar challenges.

Irish Water is currently preparing a planning application, including an environmental impact report and Natura impact statement, for the water supply project. It intends that the planning application will be submitted to An Bord Pleanála towards the end of this year and water from the project will be available from 2025. Subject to planning approval, it is anticipated that construction will be carried out over a three-to-four-year period commencing in 2022, assuming a positive outcome for the planning application.

The project is intended to meet the domestic, commercial and industrial needs of a region comprising 40% of the population into the medium to long-term future to 2050. It must be recognised that water infrastructure is already struggling to meet the current need and without this project, the eastern and midlands region of the country would face water shortages within ten years. That could mean rationing commercial and domestic supplies and severely impacting economic development and future foreign direct investment. The evidence and assessments clearly show that a long-term and sustainable source of water is needed for the eastern and midlands region to provide future generations with a secure water supply.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

I am very disappointed. I spoke to the Minister of State after the Joint Committee on Housing, Planning and Local Government, of which I am a member, received analysis of the project which suggests that Irish Water's position on the project is rife with basic mathematical errors and misleading statements about its necessity. The document we received from Kennedy Analysis makes for absolutely terrifying reading in terms of the utter waste of hundreds of millions of euro of public money that we do not have. That money could be spent tackling the issues of patients being left on hospital trolleys or waiting for cataract surgery. Ms Emma Kennedy, whom I met last week, has forensically deconstructed Irish Water's estimates for the project and clearly demonstrated that, at the very least, a complete overhaul of the entire project is necessary. I appeal that the Minister not be blind to that. It is taxpayers' money that will be spent, not mine or that of the Minister of State.

As Kennedy Analysis proved, the problem in Dublin in this regard is that its water mains are in a third world state of decay, having been neglected for decades. Some 57% of the water put into the supply system pours through holes and cracks in pipes and goes into the ground, never reaching taps. For there to be 57% leakage is astonishing and far from normal. The Shannon to Dublin pipeline project does nothing to address that, despite its suggested cost of over €1.2 billion. The Kennedy Analysis refers to an OECD study carried out in 2016 to observe leakage levels in cities around the world. Only four cities had leakage levels over 40% and they were all in Mexico. Dublin did not take part in the study. What are we hiding? Are we shamefully afraid to admit to our horrible waste of water? How can this pipeline address this scandal? It will not.

The Minister, Deputy Eoghan Murphy, must call a halt to this project and hold an all-party briefing on the matter to educate Members. On behalf of Liam Minihan, Sarah Kennedy and others, I ask the Minister what will take the cobwebs from his eyes? We are trying to come out of a recession and boost the country.

The Minister of State has stated that land and house owners in the midlands will get water from the pipe. However, they will not be allowed next, nigh nor near the pipe because of the water pressure within it. It is untrue to say that people in that area will be supplied from the pipe. I know, having turned on a tap after a leak, that the pressure will be too much. The Minister should go back to the drawing board, look at reality and not have another con and another tribunal in 20 years' time into this monumental waste of money.

Deputy John Paul Phelan

On the points the Deputy has raised, it would be a good idea to have a briefing with Deputies-----

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Please.

Deputy John Paul Phelan

-----from the mid-west area, including Tipperary------

Deputy Mattie McGrath

And those from Dublin.

Deputy John Paul Phelan

-----and Deputies from Dublin with Irish Water and I have no problem facilitating that.

I fully agree with the Deputy's points regarding the amount of water that is wasted. A huge amount of time has been devoted to that subject in this Chamber over the past five or six years. It is equally important to point out that Irish Water has made significant improvements in certain parts of the country, as the Deputy is aware. There has been a 20% reduction in the amount of treated water going straight into the ground. The improvements are still not enough and the Deputy knows as well as I do that there are parts of the city and country with water infrastructure that is completely outdated, leaking and unsuitable for the future.

Deputy Mattie McGrath

Leaking both ways.

Deputy John Paul Phelan

The purpose of the scheme is to look toward the longer-term future for Dublin and the eastern region. It is not correct to say that the regions through which the pipe passes will not be supplied. They will not be linked in to the main pipe, or at least not legally so, but there are methods-----

Dáil Éireann debate - Wednesday, 24 Jan 2018