Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 20 Jun 2023

Vol. 1040 No. 3

Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate

Domestic Violence

Deputy Kathleen Funchion

I thought the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, would be here, but I understand that people cannot necessarily be everywhere. I was going to start by saying that I know she has a strong track record on this issue and that she is genuinely committed to it.

The reason I wanted to raise this matter is, in the first instance, because I have an interest in it. I do a lot of work locally with various people trying to flee domestic violence relationships, as I am sure many other Deputies do. I have tied in a lot with our refuge, Amber, which is based in County Kilkenny but which has also covered County Carlow for several years. To be honest, I was really angry last week looking at the news. I will not get into any individual cases, but there have been two situations in the news with women's bodies being discovered. It would appear that these were domestic homicide situations. This seems to be a constant in our news. I nearly feel that people are becoming desensitised to this because it happens so regularly. Already in 2023, five women have been killed violently. In the vast majority of these cases, it is by somebody known to them. Last year, one of the worst years on record, 13 women were killed. It is June - it is not even the end of the month - and five women have been killed. If this continues, 2023 will be the worst year on record.

Women's Aid launched its annual report today. There has been a huge increase in demand for services. Part of me welcomes that because it means people are coming forward, speaking out and pursuing their cases. However, the existing services must be supported. I know and expect part of the answer will be around the new strategy and all of the work in terms of having one agency situated in the Department of Justice, all of which I welcome. In the interim, however, there must be serious, urgent and emergency measures taken. I can give a few examples. The refuges we currently have and the services which support mainly women - I know men suffer domestic violence as well but it is mainly women - must be given additional funding where they are overstretched. I often hear in this Chamber and in other quarters that the issue is being taken seriously and the Government is doing its best, which I do not doubt, but then I see our local service fundraising or hoping to get a grant for works that might cost €30,000 or €40,000. If we are taking this issue so seriously, why are we not providing them with that funding? I understand the reason about one agency and it being in the Department of Justice, which I welcome, but there must be urgent interim and emergency measures now. I also think there must be consultation with the groups in relation to what emergency measures we should take now to highlight this issue and to examine what can be done while we wait for the strategy to be implemented and for the agency to be set up.

I also wish to question the position with regard to capital funding. It seems that this comes from the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, is administered by Tusla and also kind of lies with the Department of Justice. Where is the funding for this service? The refuge in Wexford costs €6.5 million. As I understand it, only €2 million was set aside for all capital projects relating to refuges last year. That means we will not even get one full refuge this year. Nine counties do not have any refuges.

I wish to also mention issues around barriers to housing, step-down housing and education. I will do so with my supplementary contribution. I wanted to raise this issue because I was angry looking at those reports and at the so-called supports that will be put in place for these alleged perpetrators.

Where are the supports for those families and those children left without mothers? I can guarantee they are not there or not as plentiful as we are being led to believe.

Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs (Deputy Sean Fleming)

On behalf of the Minister for Justice, Deputy McEntee, I thank the Deputy for raising this issue in the House. According to the Women's Aid impact report, which was launched earlier today, 12 women died violently in 2022. These 12 beautiful lives were stolen and 12 families were forced to suffer immeasurable grief. I can assure the Deputy that the Government is utterly focused on delivering a society that does not accept this brutality or the attitudes that underpin it.

It is coming up on 12 months since the Minister, Deputy McEntee, launched Zero Tolerance, our strategy to combat domestic, sexual and gender-based violence, DSGBV. The pillars on which it is built are prevention, protection, prosecution and policy co-ordination, and it recognises it is only through a society-wide effort that we will achieve the necessary change. I assure the Deputy a huge body of work is under way in this regard now. Key elements include the doubling of the overall number of refuge units over the lifetime of the strategy so that when a woman needs a refuge, one is available. The local authority or the local refuge might now put somebody in a hotel for a week or two temporarily. This is unsatisfactory for victims and their children, as there would be in many of these cases. The establishment of the domestic, sexual and gender-based violence agency next January will bring the expertise and focus required to tackle this complex social issue.

Many of the actions in the strategy are focused to enhance support for victims. The provision of legal aid and legal advice, trauma-informed training and national awareness campaigns are all provided for. The Minister, Deputy McEntee, is progressing legislation in this area to double the maximum sentence for assault causing harm, introducing stand-alone offences for stalking and non-fatal strangulation, and updating sexual offences legislation, including in relation to the law around consent. We all know the importance of criminal justice, of strong legislation, of reporting, of supports for victims and of a co-ordinated approach in our work with victims.

The fundamental weapon we have, though, in the fight against gender-based violence is, and will always be, prevention. It is that huge piece of work around bringing about a change in attitudes and social norms concerning what is acceptable. As part of this, the Department of Justice is looking to the successes of previous awareness-raising campaigns to produce new initiatives around prevention, consent, intimate image abuse and public awareness of victims' rights. This is a whole-of-government strategy approach and it includes society generally. For example, other ongoing actions in the plan include both updating secondary school curriculums at junior and senior cycle to include consent, domestic violence, coercive control and safe use of the Internet, and improving training for professionals and support staff. We have prioritised this issue since coming into government, but I know much more needs to be done and we will not be found wanting in that regard.

I agree with everything the Deputy said. We are in adjoining counties and the problems we face are identical in both and I am sure in every other county. The Deputy mentioned the point that something needs to be done on interim funding between now and when this strategy is implemented. As she said, nine counties, including both of ours, do not have proper refuge services. What happens is often very temporary and sometimes relies on agencies in other counties. No matter how quickly we try to build those new refuge centres, which are required and should be in every county, this is going to take a couple of years, no matter how we do it. The issue of funding, therefore, must be addressed in the interim because we cannot wait until all these refuges are built. We need capital and current funding to deal with these issues until we get the strategy fully implemented.

Deputy Kathleen Funchion

I thank the Minister of State. I do not doubt his sincerity on this issue at all. One of the key things in this regard concerns some interim measures. We must see this happen while we are waiting for the agency to be established. It is important the stakeholders are consulted in respect of this agency to ensure it works effectively. I refer to local programmes, such as StartSafe, run by our local refuge, Amber, for secondary schools and youth groups. We must try to see where things are working well and how we can replicate them. I find myself saying this a great deal in respect of this topic because some counties have a very good system in place between their local protective services unit, PSU, and their local women's refuge, if they have one. Other counties, though, do not have this. People will have mixed experiences.

I raise this issue in the hope that we can have some sort of a round-table discussion or consultation to see where things are working effectively and if we can replicate that approach. I refer to consulting groups regarding what they might feel could be some interim measures we can undertake. I feel we must do something before we again hear of the death of a woman on the news. It is becoming nearly normalised, which is an horrific thing to say but this is nearly what it feels like. The education aspect is also important. Programmes such as the positive parenting programme, PPP, are very helpful for people once they have come out of abusive relationships. Many of these could be rolled out further.

Additionally, I mention the housing situation. This is a major barrier. I refer to step-down housing. Some counties have this provision and some do not, but anywhere that does now has people going into those houses because there is such a lack of availability in this regard. One or two of the things we could do in the interim would be to make it easier for people to access some short-term measures in this context, such as the housing assistance payment, HAP, and to increase this payment for people in these situations. I am talking specifically about people in domestic violence situations. I say this because often they will go to the local authority and they will find that there is an issue with their name being on a house.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I thank the Deputy.

Deputy Kathleen Funchion

Briefly, this aspect has changed, but it depends on who people are dealing with. We must examine some of these short-term interim measures while we are waiting for the broader strategy to be established. I am sorry for going over time.

Deputy Sean Fleming

I again thank the Deputy for raising this issue. We all understand, and I think the figures show, but I am subject to correction on this, that in 90% of the cases where women suffer domestic violence, the perpetrators are known to them. We must start on this basis. It is not a random issue. We must take it that something of a more insidious nature is happening behind the scenes before it comes to light in many of these situations. I agree with the Deputy on the interim measures. Some of these refuges were built through the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, which was the traditional way of providing funding. Now, however, it is very good that all this effort is being centred in the Department of Justice. We would, however, need a transition of the funding, the approach and the expertise that exists in respect of building the refuges that exist now and for work in this regard to be undertaken closely with the Department of Justice in the interim.

The Deputy was quite right when she said we need to do some work with the local authorities in terms of housing during the period when an emergency arises. Perhaps the local authorities can have a role in this regard.

One thing I wish to say, and I think most of us will know, is that the Garda has really stepped up its involvement in this issue in the past couple of years. I have referred several times to the example I know of in the case of every incident that happens in my area, where the Garda drops everything and members of the force are out to the location as quickly as humanly possible. The Garda has given the number one priority to addressing domestic abuse across all the regions in the country. This is visible and noticeable, so much so that, and I say this light-heartedly, if it is possible to say such a thing in a debate such as this one, I have had people who have complained about antisocial behaviour in an area who ring the Garda and they know that domestic violence cases come before any other event happening in a locality. I compliment the officers of the Garda for their understanding and the kind nature of many of the gardaí in the areas where they deal with these situations. We do, though, need interim measures to be put in place until the full strategy is implemented in the interests of the women who are suffering.

Road Network

Deputy Marc MacSharry

I thank the Minister of State for being here. I know he is delivering a response on behalf of the Minister for Transport, Deputy Ryan, but I lament his absence. I know he cannot be here every day, but I cannot understate the damage he has been doing to infrastructure plans that have already been announced and budgeted for. An example is the upgrade to the N17, which is one of the most dangerous national primary routes in the country.

As the Minister of State will know, this scheme has been in the design work stage since 2018. In August that year, the project appraisal plan was approved by the strategic research and analysis division of the Minister's Department.

It was adjudged to be compliant with the public spending code and common appraisal framework. This led to TII's approval to progress to planning and design of the scheme in accordance with its project management guidelines. The emerging preferred corridor for the scheme was released in January of this year, followed by a two month public consultation process.

As the Minister of State will be aware, the scheme forms part of the Trans-European Transport Network, TEN-T, comprehensive network from an EU perspective and is a core component of the Atlantic economic corridor. The upgrade will deliver on national policy, including key strategic objectives and deliverables in Project Ireland 2040, the national planning framework and the national development plan, NDP. The project aligns with the national investment framework for transport in Ireland and the road safety strategy 2021-2030.

God knows, we are awash with cash at this moment in time. The Minister recently attended Sligo County Council where he met the CEO and management team, along with some of the elected members. It was outlined, in a letter that was addressed to Kevin Kelly, the chief executive of Mayo County Council, from his counterpart in Sligo, that the Minister said there would be no funding available for this scheme for "many years". This beggars belief at a time when there is a war in Europe, a housing crisis all over the country, commitments to our international colleagues for help and all of the rest. We have an eastern conurbation that is set to explode.

The disruption caused by traffic and the congestion in this part of the country where I stand now will cost the nation €3 billion per year by 2030. This is because of the green ideology of a very nice man, namely, the Minister, Deputy Ryan. As a great lady in Sligo, Rosie Kelly, used to say, "The country is full of lovely fellas. It's leaders we need".

Sligo is where Project Ireland 2040 was announced. We are now permitting one Minister in government to make a decision. Some three or four weeks ago, on Questions on Policy or Legislation when I was waiting for a turn to come up for this Topical Issue, I asked whether the Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil Parties in government support the Minister, Deputy Ryan, and the Green Party's unilateral sabotage of these already announced and budgeted for national policies, in effect, suspending them indefinitely and undermining the momentum and potential for the western seaboard to perform to its potential, as well as offering a real counterbalance to the eastern conurbation and congestion.

Deputy Sean Fleming

I thank the Deputy for raising the issue of the N17 national primary route in line with Government policy as set out in the national planning framework and Project Ireland 2040. As he will be aware, I am answering today on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Ryan, who unfortunately cannot be here in person.

The Minister for Transport has responsibility for overall policy and Exchequer funding in regard to the national roads programme. Once funding arrangements have been put in place with Transport Infrastructure Ireland, TII, under the Roads Acts 1993 to 2015, and in line with the NDP, the planning, design, improvement and upgrading of individual national roads is a matter for TII, in conjunction with the local authorities concerned. TII ultimately delivers the national roads programme in line with Project Ireland 2040, the national planning framework and the NDP. Approximately €491 million of Exchequer capital funds have been provided for national roads through TII to local authorities in the current year. These allocations were announced by the Department of Transport and TII on 16 February 2023.

The N17 Knock to Collooney scheme has been identified in the NDP. TII has worked to progress this scheme through planning, design and construction. The Minister, Deputy Ryan, met recently with Sligo County Council on a number of issues and this project was one of the topics discussed at the meeting. I can confirm €400,000 has been allocated for the N17 Knock to Collooney scheme in 2023. The close out of the route option selection reporting is ongoing and an emerging preferred transport corridor is expected to be completed in quarter 3 of 2023. Additional tasks, including traffic modelling and reporting, are also ongoing. As with the national roads projects in the NDP, the delivery programme for the project will be kept under review for 2024. The scheme remains part of the NDP and will be considered in terms of the overall funding available to TII in future years.

There is a commitment of €400,000 for this calendar year. It is vital that in the interests of the taxpayer and, in particular, road users and people who are used to travelling on a road that is not safe, when funding is invested that people get the benefit of that funding and the scheme is continued in the coming years.

The proposed project assists in the delivery of high-quality road networks on the Atlantic corridor, linking Cork, Limerick, Galway and Sligo. It is important that projects in the programme for Government are implemented during the lifetime of this Government. That is a Government decision and not a decision for any particular group within the Government. These programme for Government commitments are Government commitments involving all three parties.

The project provides enhanced regional accessibility and access to international markets via the airport in Knock. Through the provision of improved infrastructure, the project will support commercial growth and investment in the area, including the Knock Airport strategic development zone. I know the Deputy is very keen to ensure that happens for the development of the region. This particular road project will involve counties Sligo and Mayo.

The proposed project will remove traffic from a number of towns and villages, which will have positive social and environmental impacts on local residents. Road users will benefit from improved journey times and certainty and, in addition, the project provides an opportunity to introduce active transport facilities and encourage physical activity in the area.

Deputy Marc MacSharry

It is still in the NDP. As we know, that means nothing. In the 1940s, the NDP involved draining the Shannon and we still have not done that. A figure of €400,000 is derisory. It would not cut the grass verges on the N17 as it is at the moment. The fact is that I have in writing in front of me one chief executive in Sligo County Council communicating with his counterpart in Mayo and outlining that the Minister said there would be no funding available for the scheme for many years.

The people of the western seaboard are a little bit sick of the fact that it was the chosen location for the launch of Project Ireland 2040, as it was. Galway and Mayo are regularly chosen for other launches. It was good enough for Biden to come to Ballina, Knock or wherever else.

I was in the room for part of the programme for Government. In effect, Minister, Deputy Ryan, is dragging Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael around this House in line with his chosen and preferred version of what he might have liked the programme for Government to be. Mayo, Galway, Sligo, Limerick and various other areas in this House represented by those of all parties and none are apoplectic about the Minister. This is not personal, but when it comes to policies agreed by the Government he is running around like a headless chicken, dreaming about what he would like to have seen rather than what the Government agreed. Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of people in the western seaboard need this road from a safety point of view. I have also outlined why it makes economic sense to at least invest in some sort of counterbalance to what is increasingly an eastern conurbation that goes beyond congestion.

Deputy Sean Fleming

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue on behalf of his constituents in Sligo. There have been many accidents and fatalities on the road. One factor that is not taken into account sufficiently in these areas is the number of lives saved by improved roads infrastructure. We often talk about the cost benefit of roads, but we cannot put a price on people's lives. People are fatally injured in traffic accidents as a result of unsatisfactory roads that are not capable of dealing with the volume and type of traffic on them.

It is important that we bear those issues in mind. It is also helpful for the economic development. There are programme for Government commitments relating to roads, rail infrastructure, active travel arrangements, bus services, cycling and walking. It is incumbent on us in government to ensure the allocations in each of these areas are spent within the budget and fully utilised. I should not use the word "spend"; I should use the word "investing", in these facilities not just for this generation but for future generations because those roads will be there. It is important that there is no imbalance in the spending under the various headings I mentioned to suit individual parties in government and that what is agreed by the Government at national level is implemented by the line Minister. We have 15 Cabinet posts and each of them is individuals but there is collective responsibility and it is important that Government decisions are implemented in practice. I understand what the Deputy said when he quoted from the letter that no funding would be available for this scheme for a long time yet. I do not know the specifics of that, whether he was talking about the final construction and building it or the planning, or the CPO, if that is required for land acquisition. It is inevitable that land will be required and it will take a number of years in the best of times. I have seen that in my constituency with regard to various motorways. I will raise the issues raised by the Deputy directly with my party leader and other party leaders at the first available opportunity.

Taxi Regulations

Deputy Martin Browne

I know the Minister of State is present on behalf of the Minister for Transport, Deputy Eamon Ryan, so I thank him for that. Since I was elected to this House in 2020, taxi operators have consistently outlined to me that their livelihoods are in serious trouble due to illegal operators. I have tabled many parliamentary questions to the Minister over the past couple of years concerning the ability of the National Transport Authority, NTA, to tackle the problem. The responses I have received have done little to convince me that the Minister and Minister of State responsible have any interest in solving what is going on here. I would say that, only for the register of operators themselves, no one else seems to be taking anything seriously. I am aware that neither Minister is available to respond this evening so I will instead take this opportunity to highlight this problem in anticipation that it will be fed back to the Department and that they will ultimately engage with the NTA, An Garda Síochána, and illegal taxi operators about this important matter that is affecting livelihoods in the sector and their future employment prospects.

Operators of small public service vehicles, SPSVs, in County Tipperary and throughout the country, as well as enforcement officials, have said that illegal operators are rampant across the country. They are and the NTA enforcers have said similar. Effective enforcement alongside consequences that act as a deterrent are sadly lacking in the overall scheme because effective enforcement, along with the consequences, are more or less zero. There were 54 cases over the past couple of years, which is two per county. Anybody with any grasp of the situation will see that those small figures are pure stupid. An Garda Síochána and the NTA do not have the resources to catch all the illegal operators given the process that is currently involved in gathering the evidence that is needed to satisfy the burden of proof that an individual is operating for hire or reward. Should an illegal operator be prosecuted they may receive a fine of a few hundred euro and according to what I hear regularly, as I am quite sure the Minister does, they just get back into the driving seat and go back out that night to do the exact same thing again.

One legal operator whom I know and who appeared before the transport committee last year spoke of how at the time at least 15 illegal operators were known within a 30-mile radius in one region. There were four prosecutions in the previous six months and the four people who were prosecuted were back out operating the following night. Is the Department satisfied that the options open to the gardaí and the NTA to tackle the problem are significant and effective? There is concern that they are not, How can someone be prosecuted for operating an entirely unlicensed SPSV and be able to simply go back out on the road if they have the gall to do so? Why are insurance companies not contacted about this because we must remember that anybody who employs the services of an unregistered operator will not be covered by insurance should the vehicle be involved in an incident. How come that after being prosecuted they can get right back into the car and carry on as normal? If the consequences for acting illegally do not act as a deterrent, they will not deter others from the practice. It is as simple as that. Both the Garda and the NTA have a significant role to play here but when it comes to gardaí and the resources and time they are given to carry out an operation, they may as well stay at home for what they are getting.

The problem appears to be that the Department and the NTA seem to be working under the assumption that the way the issue has been dealt with for numerous years is working and that no more needs to be done. That is clearly not the case. In addition to the questions I posed earlier, is the Department aware of the number of calls coming into the NTA? Is it also aware of the level of dissatisfaction in the sector about how the issue is being dealt with? Is the Department itself exploring any other measures to effectively deal with, and deter, illegal operators and to protect the livelihoods of operators?

Deputy Sean Fleming

I thank the Deputy for raising this matter regarding the ongoing challenges to the taxi industry posed by illegal operators, which I will answer on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan. The regulation of the SPSV industry, including enforcement and compliance in the SPSV sector, is a matter for the independent transport regulator, the NTA, under the provisions of the Taxi Regulation Acts, 2013 and 2016. The Minister for Transport has no role in the day-to day operations of the small public service vehicles sector. The NTA, as regulator, sets the standards and requirements for the SPSV sector which include rules about vehicle standards, suitability of drivers, and insurance requirements. It also enforces legislation related to SPSVs sector which includes taxis, hackneys and limousines. Taxis and taxi drivers must be fully licensed. The NTA has 20 compliance officers, spread across the country working for the benefit of the industry and the travelling public, and who are empowered to investigate complaints. Separately, all members of An Garda Síochána are empowered to investigate offences under the legislation. The NTA does not have statistics on the numbers of unlicensed SPSV operators encountered and dealt with by Gardaí. To successfully detect and prosecute those operating without any SPSV licences, Garda assistance is required. There is a lot of co-ordination between the two State organisations. Any communications received by the Minister or by his Department regarding illegal operators in the taxi industry are sent to the NTA for investigation by its enforcement team. In 2022, NTA compliance officers recorded more than 200,000 checks of SPSVs where each officer has a handheld, roadside app to check vehicles. The NTA also recorded more than 12,400 audits of SPSVs, where more detailed inspections were carried out. NTA compliance activity resulted in 655 fixed payment notices being issued in 2022 and 146 prosecutions at the District Court.

I understand that in most instances, illegal operators use vehicles that are not displaying any SPSV identification and offer their illegal services through social media or directly through a venue within a city, town or village. These are not taxi services, but are prebooked, private hire services. With any allegation of an unlicensed SPSV service, information is received, assessed in terms of evidence and acted upon wherever possible by NTA compliance officers or members of An Garda Síochána.

For a successful prosecution, there must be evidence that the individual is operating for hire or reward and, therefore, evidence of payment must be presented to the court. The NTA, with the assistance of An Garda Síochána, has undertaken numerous covert operations to detect and apprehend offenders. This has included the detection of offenders operating from outside the jurisdiction through social media, and also offenders offering services solely in foreign languages. The operations to detect and apprehend the offenders are covert, often complex and may take some time to conclude. The evidential threshold for prosecuting these cases is, as it is with all criminal prosecutions, high. All reports of illegal operators are investigated but not all reveal that offences are being committed. In addition to undertaking covert activity, if evidence is provided by those reporting the allegation, including evidence that the service is being provided for hire or reward, the matter will be prosecuted based upon the evidence provided by the person reporting it.

Deputy Martin Browne

As I said earlier, this is nothing we have not heard before from the Minister. The only thing that is different, which I have in front of me from the Minister and the NTA, is there were only 54 prosecutions last year. In his reply, the Minister of State said that this figure has gone up to 65 fixed penalty payment notices and 146 prosecutions. I do not know who is doing the maths in the Department of Transport but 146 is a long way away from 54.

The same thing is being done year after year but it has not worked. Taxi drivers will tell you that. Thousands of jobs are at risk because of the inaction of the Minister. He can reply that he is not involved in day-to-day operations. Maybe it is time he got involved in them and started trying to get those who are doing this prosecuted and save the jobs of the thousands of people we are talking about. It is fine saying that An Garda Síochána has handheld cameras but it and the NTA will say that the funding is not there for them to implement that kind of system. I ask the Minister of State to take back to the Minister the message that he needs to get more involved and engage more with the sector, An Garda Síochána and the NTA.

We have been informed that some of the larger hotel groups are using unauthorised taxis for airport runs. Perhaps this is something the Minister can get involved in. I urge the Minister of State to take back to the Minister the message that unless he adopts a hands-on approach, I and others will be back in this House talking about the same thing over and over again.

Deputy Sean Fleming

A total of 65 fixed penalty payment notices were issued in 2022 and 146 prosecutions were taken at the District Court. In 2022, the NTA initiated 54 prosecutions of individuals operating an entirely unlicensed SPSV service without either an SPSV driver licence or a vehicle licence. This was in addition to its prosecution of persons operating on expired SPSV licences. I am informed that, to date this year, 30 files have been submitted for consideration of prosecution of those having no SPSV licences, which is a separate issue, along with those operating on expired licences. I hope this clarifies the matter.

The regulation of the industry, enforcement and compliance is a matter for the NTA. On reading the script, I see how complicated it is to get a successful prosecution because we are relying on the person to come forward and give evidence of proof of payment and not alone have to make the initial complaint but also make a statement to An Garda Síochána or the NTA and be willing to give evidence in court if called upon. That is a complicated process and I can understand why the number of prosecutions is so low. I do not know whether that can be dealt with in some other way but I can see why the rate of prosecutions is quite low. Once someone is before the court in respect of a criminal offence, he or she is entitled to contest the evidence against him or her. The NTA can only bring a case where it has evidence. Otherwise, it will lose that case. I thank the Deputy for highlighting the matter again and I will speak to the Minister for Transport at the first opportunity.

The Dáil adjourned at 10.04 p.m. until 9.12 a.m. on Wednesday, 21 June 2023.