I welcome the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien.
Saincheisteanna Tráthúla - Topical Issue Debate
Dental Services
Go raibh maith agat, a Cheann Comhairle, as ucht as ligean dom an cheist thábhachtach seo a thógáil.
Health is very important and should be a priority but dental health is an intrinsic and very important part of the health equation for most people. It is well testified that where people do not look after their dental health, there are detrimental effects on their well-being. The reality is that the medical card dental scheme is falling apart. County Galway has a population of approximately 300,000, so we can guess that there are approximately 100,000 medical card holders. There are 24 dentists in the scheme and they obviously have a large number of private patients. Each of those dentists has to cover 4,166 medical card patients in addition to private patients. That is clearly impossible and, therefore, we have a huge challenge. In our constituency clinics, we meet all the time people with medical cards who cannot access routine, but vital, medical treatment. The reality in such cases is that many people wind up getting teeth extracted. The options when that happens are either very expensive or not very good. Taking modern dental practice into account, they are certainly suboptimal.
I recently got a heartbreaking letter from the Galway Advocacy Council. This group is supported by fáilte community services in the Brothers of Charity. This group mainly deals with people with disabilities. They said - they are people with a disability - about their experience with the dental services that if you have not seen a dentist in a year, you will drop off their books. People have to go to Shantalla clinic, which is the public clinic, for extreme emergencies to be seen because they are in pain.
Dentists are looking for bank details ahead of appointments. What is the point in having a medical card? Dental services have got worse in the past 20 years, certainly for people dependent on a medical card. Do dentists want to deal with medical card holders? Is there a lot of paperwork? People should not have to suffer or be in pain. It is wrong. Any of us who have suffered from daitheachaí or dental pain, toothache, know how excruciating it can be. What is going on in the country? That is a valid question. At a time when there is unprecedented wealth, a simple service such as a medical card dental service does not seem to exist in any meaningful fashion. People have lost interest in going to the dentist due to a lack of appointments for medical card holders and not having any money to go privately. They are losing their teeth, their smiles and their confidence and it is also affecting their health.
I beg the Minister of State - it is unfortunate that the Minister for health and no Minister of State from the Department of Health was available - and hope that he will carry the message back, that there is a crisis in the provision of dental services for medical card holders and to see a dentist privately is unaffordable.
I thank the Deputy for the opportunity to address the issue of participation of dentists in the dental treatment services scheme in County Galway.
The dental treatment services scheme, DTSS, provides dental care free of charge to medical card holders aged 16 and over. Services available annually and on demand include an examination, including preventative advice, two fillings, emergency extractions and a scale and polish. More complex care, such as dentures and a broader range of treatments for patients with additional needs and high-risk patients, are available subject to the approval of the local HSE principal dental surgeon.
In response to contractor concerns regarding the scheme, the Minister for Health approved measures from May 2022 providing for increased preventative care and increasing the fees paid to dentists for most treatment items by between 40% and 60%.
While the number of contractors of the scheme remains lower than before the pandemic, with 57 contractors on the scheme in County Galway at present, the number of treatments provided by contractors on the DTSS has increased since the new measures were introduced. In 2022, 40,580 treatments were provided at a cost of €2.23 million in County Galway. In 2023, 44,646 treatments were provided at a cost of €2.81 million. However, the Minister is aware that medical card holders in some areas continue to have difficulty accessing care. The HSE is required to support the provision of emergency care to adult medical card holders who are having difficulty accessing a local dentist.
The Government is committed to fundamentally reforming dental services, including the DTSS, through the implementation of the national oral health policy, Smile agus Sláinte. The Department is working closely with the HSE to ensure the establishment of focused structures to drive implementation of the policy. The HSE has appointed a strategic reform lead to drive policy implementation across the organisation and to move forward in 2024 with developing new services for both adults and children in line with the policy. This will include work on planning new services for medical card holders. The policy highlights the need for strategic workforce planning to ensure a sufficient number of appropriately trained oral healthcare professionals, including dentists, dental hygienists, dental nurses and other auxiliary grades. It is heartening to note that we currently have more registered dentists than ever before. There are 3,649 at present, which is an additional 177 registered dentists since March 2023. This reflects positive trends as the comparable figure in 2018 was 3,217.
The Minister supports the creation of additional capacity in higher education, including in oral healthcare. The Higher Education Authority is undertaking a process to identify a set of options for achieving this important step towards health workforce sustainability for Ireland.
I thank the Minister of State for the information, but I have to say that I know from dealing with my constituents that the lived experience, irrespective of the figures, does not concur with what was stated in the script he was provided by the Department. To be honest, a free scheme is a free scheme and the cost becomes irrelevant to the people who seek to access it. We should not give a commitment if we are not going to honour it, irrespective of the cost.
The Minister of State said there are 57 contractors. We looked for the names of the dentists on the scheme quite recently and we were given two in Galway west, nine in Galway east and 13 in the city. I will check whether there is an updated list and if it has more than doubled in the meantime, but that is certainly not the information we were given. I will raise the issue here again if the figure of 57 does not stand up in reality. As the Minister of State is aware, it is important that the facts and figures given on the record are accurate.
The lived experience is that people cannot access routine treatment. I heard what was said about emergencies, but an emergency should be an emergency. That should not be the routine way to go. We also know that, with dental health, prevention is much better than cure and that early intervention on cavities and other issues that arise with dental health is far superior to trying to solve a problem that should have been avoided.
Finally, I especially ask the Minister of State to mention to the Minister the challenge faced by those with a disability and particularly, since they raised the issue with me, with an intellectual disability. They do not have the same ability to fend for themselves in trying to negotiate a complex bureaucratic system. Will someone make sure they get access to genuine free dental care as promised?
The Minister has made substantial additional investments in oral healthcare services in recent years, but I take the Deputy's point about the lived reality he outlined, especially regarding people with intellectual disabilities trying to negotiate complex administrative systems which are not always very user friendly. I will certainly take that point back to the Minister. I will also ask him to supply the list of 57 contractors to the Deputy. I thank him for raising the points he did. I will take the message back to the Minister for Health.
Post Office Network
I thank the Ceann Comhairle for giving me the opportunity to raise this issue. I thank the office of the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, for responding to me to say he cannot be here because he is in a committee. However, I am not at all happy that none of the other two Ministers of State in the Department of communications could come into the House to respond to this matter.
We are facing the potential closure of the post office on The Square in Roscommon town, following the decision by An Post to tender the services out to a contractor. This is the first instance where An Post is attempting to downgrade the status of one of its post offices in a county town. While this will come as a blow to the dedicated staff in the post office, there is also a risk that the new contractor will no longer use the existing building, which could see the service moved elsewhere in the town, potentially outside the town centre.
This is after nearly €15 million of Government investment under the urban regeneration and development fund and associated funds, which have been primarily focused on the town centre in Roscommon. While I have been reassured by An Post that there is no threat to the existing services provided, the loss of a State-owned service in the county town will impede the potential expansion of services in the longer term.
It should also be noted that even in An Post's darkest hour, when the company was within a number of weeks of financial collapse in 2017, it was never contemplated that the company would dispose of any of its 50 hub post offices that it owned around the country. These were seen at that time as strategic premises. If that was so, why is it not so today with the company on a healthy financial trajectory? Its 2022 accounts indicate that earnings before interest, tax, depreciation and repayments are up 15% year on year to €18.6 million.
During my term as Minister, I developed a strategy with An Post to protect it from financial collapse and to use the An Post-owned post office network such as the one in Roscommon town as a focal point for the development of banking services and other Government services. This would have resulted in an expansion of the range of services in Roscommon post office as well as the use of additional space in the building for new State-supported services. This included redesigning Roscommon post office as a one-stop shop for all Government services for those who did not wish to use online services, including motor tax, driving licences and passports. Roscommon post office was also to be expanded to develop a community banking service to provide an alternative to the existing banks and to support the development of banking services in our smaller sub-post offices throughout County Roscommon. Key to the plan was the retention of the ownership and control of the existing An Post post offices in the 50 locations around the country, including Roscommon town.
Sadly these plans were not fulfilled by Government and it now seems that An Post is set to relinquish direct control of such services, which is likely to undermine the future plans for such services in Roscommon town. As the Minister of State knows, in the intervening years I have strongly advocated for the delivery of new Government services through the post office network but this has failed to materialise. I have also strongly advocated for the establishment of a State bank incorporating the Ireland Strategic Investment Fund and the Strategic Banking Corporation of Ireland to offer low interest rates to support both businesses and communities. Such a bank could also provide green finance to homeowners, landlords and businesses to invest in a sustainable future.
I welcome the opportunity to outline the position on this matter on behalf of the Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, and Minister of State, Deputy Chambers.
An Post is a commercial State company with a mandate to act commercially and, as such, day-to-day operational matters, including decisions in relation to the size, distribution and future of the network, are matters for the board and management of the company and not ones in which the Minister, Deputy Ryan, has a statutory function. However both the Minister and Minister of State are very aware of the impact that decisions relating to changes in An Post operations have on communities and individuals in both rural and urban areas. The Department will engage with An Post to outline and highlight the concerns which have been raised by staff, customers and the wider community.
As the Deputy has outlined, in line with its ongoing transformation, An Post announced last week that it proposes converting six post offices from An Post-run to contractor-run, one of which is the Roscommon town office. Fewer than 40 post offices out of a total of over 900 across the State are now run directly by An Post. An Post has outlined that the change in business model of the six offices will not in any way change the range or extent of the services offered by An Post in those selected locations and the company remains committed to providing each area with the highest level of services for the future. An Post has advised that staff employed at the post offices in question will have options, including taking up the employment as new postmaster or being redeployed within the network.
The Government’s objectives for the An Post network include harnessing the opportunities presented by e-commerce and the digital economy and delivering a sustainable nationwide post office network at the heart of communities offering a range of e-commerce, financial and government services. The Government agreed that an amount of €10 million per annum will be provided by the Department of the Environment, Climate and Communications over a three-year fixed term from 2023 to 2025 to support the postmasters, with funding to be disbursed across the post office network. The funding is being paid monthly for each 12-month period. There has been over €9.7 million claimed by An Post for 2023 for the postmaster network. The programme for Government recognises that a modernised post office network will provide a better range of financial services and e-commerce services for citizens and enterprise, as part of our commitment to a sustainable nationwide post office network. The overall €30 million funding being provided to support a sustainable, nationwide post office network is in line with this commitment.
The difficulty is that Roscommon town will be the only county town in Ireland without an An Post-owned post office if this measure goes ahead. Disappointingly, the type of support that is needed for An Post to develop its own post office network with new services has not been forthcoming to date from the Government, despite a Cabinet commitment to deliver that. This is at least in part resulting in the threat to the status of this post office in Roscommon town and, in fact, the transition of the ownership of all of these iconic buildings and their services into private control. All of the public representatives from every party and none are at one when it comes to our call for An Post to abandon its plan to alter the status of post offices that it owns in our county towns and in particular in Roscommon town. We want to see the post office in Roscommon town retained in its current location and with its current ownership and operation, and in fact see the building expanded and refurbished to meet the growing needs of the local community and to mirror the significant public funds that have already been invested in Roscommon town by this Government and the previous one. It makes absolutely no sense that we are investing public money to improve the town of Roscommon while at the same time we have a semi-State company withdrawing its own investment from that town.
I appreciate the Deputy's passionate advocacy for the retention of the situation with the post office in Roscommon town. I reiterate that An Post has outlined that its change in business model of the six offices I have mentioned, including Roscommon, will not in any way change the range or extent of the services offered by An Post in those selected locations. The company remains committed to providing each area with the highest level of services for the future. The Minister, Deputy Eamon Ryan, and the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, with Department officials, will reflect on the concerns outlined today to An Post regarding its announcement. I will convey the level of passion the Deputy has expressed today to the Minister directly.
Schools Building Projects
I thank the Minister of State for taking this matter, which is on the urgent need for approved school building projects in Dublin Mid-West to begin construction. This is something I have raised consistently in this Chamber in my tenure as a TD. As the Minister of State may be aware, we are facing a school places crisis in my constituency. As I said in the Dáil both this week and last week, we have school buildings waiting for the go-ahead for extensions and new builds for years now. We also have students who do not know which post-primary school they will go to in September.
I am really disappointed that there is no Minister from the Department of Education present, although I appreciate that the Department has provided the Minister of State with information to respond to me. Our school communities - parents, students, teachers and principals - are waiting on new builds and extensions and they are fed up waiting. Honestly, I am fed up asking for updates. It is very disappointing that in 2024 all students do not have equality of access when it comes to education. That is the reality for those who go to a school that does not have a PE hall or a woodwork or home economics room because the school is languishing on a waiting list for a new building.
Let us talk specifics. Lucan Community College applied for its new school building in 2009. The project proceeded to tender but 15 years later, they are still waiting.
Griffeen Community College had its planning application approved in February 2022 but the contact still has not been awarded. They have been accommodated in Kishoge Community College for years, and now in prefabs too. Why do we open schools if we do not have permanent homes for them? Coláiste Pobail Fóla, Saggart, is in shocking condition and is awaiting its build.
Holy Family Community School, Rathcoole, has been waiting on a new building since I went to school there. I do not want to give away my age but that is not today or yesterday. They have over 900 pupils and they are mostly in what were designed as temporary prefabs. For this coming academic year, they had 335 students apply and they can only accept approximately 180. That means siblings will be sent to different schools at this stage. Coláiste Chilliain, Clondalkin, has been promised a Gaelscoil campus to accommodate it, Gaelscoil Chluain Dolcáin and Gaelscoil na Camóige. Both Holy Family Community School and Coláiste Chilliain were asked to submit specialist detailed further information. They did so in the summer, in June in many cases, but there still has been no update from the Department. My simple question is, what is the delay?
Last year, the school building programme, as we all will be aware, ground to a halt. The Department of Education said it needed extra money to be able to cover the increased cost of building. An extra €960 million was found and was allocated but nearly a year on, we have not seen any result of that. We have not seen any progress in my constituency. Over €41 million has been assigned to Lucan and Clondalkin alone for capital investment in schools. As far as I can see, there are 19 schools at stage 3 in Dublin and nine of them are in Dublin Mid-West. That is a really small area within Dublin and it is accounting for almost 50% of school builds at stage 3. The money is there. The plans are there. The need is most certainly there. What is the delay?
In Dublin Mid-West we have so many school communities in desperate need of the hope and excitement that a new school building will bring. Why is the Department not pushing forward those plans?
I thank the Deputy for raising this matter as it provides me with the opportunity, on behalf of the Department of Education, to outline to the Dáil the current position in relation to the large-scale capital building projects for Holy Family Community School, Rathcoole, and the Clondalkin schools campus. The projects are included in the Department's construction programme which will be delivered under the national development plan as part of the Project Ireland 2040 framework. The Department's planning and building unit is currently assessing its work programme and priorities for 2024 in the context of overall requirements. Holy Family Community School, Rathcoole and the Clondalkin schools campus remain a priority for delivery, in line with the accommodation issues present at the schools.
The tender process for both projects was undertaken and a contractor has been identified. Given the magnitude of this large scale investment, the tender report evaluation process takes time for the Department's technical staff to adequately and appropriately analyse. The Department is very conscious of the urgency in getting these projects delivered as quickly as possible. The next steps for the projects will be the completion of the tender process and progression to stage 4 - construction.
I want to reassure the Deputy, Holy Family Community School and the Clondalkin campus school community that the school building projects will be progressed and delivered. The Department will update the school authorities when there is a further update on the progression of the major projects.
I thank the Minister of State for that update. It is welcome news that they will be delivered as quickly as possible but I would still like to know what "as quickly as possible" means. What kind of a timeframe are we looking at?
I would like to take this opportunity to ensure that the Minister of State, the Minister for Education and her Department are aware of the primary schools that also need new buildings and extensions in my constituency. They are: Adamstown Castle Educate Together National School; Gaelscoil na Camóige, which has been in prefabs for 30 plus years; Gaelscoil Chluain Dolcáin; Scoil Chrónáin; St. Thomas's Junior National School and Scoil Áine Naofa senior national school, which are together on the ADAPT programme, although I do not know what "Accelerated Delivery" means in their instance; Divine Mercy, junior and senior; Rathcoole Educate Together National School, which, I welcome, has gone to planning permission; Gaelscoil Lir; St. Ronan's National School, which, I understand, is being approved for rapid build for which I am grateful; and Scoil Mochua.
I cannot stress enough that speeding up the tender process would genuinely transform the situation for people in my community. We have so many schools still at stage 3, and almost 50% of Dublin schools at stage 3 are in my constituency. This seems to be the stage at which the process seems to grind to a halt. It needs to be addressed immediately if we are to turn projects around for schools, such as Lucan Community College, Griffeen Community College, my own old school, Holy Family Community School, Coláiste Pobail Fóla and Coláiste Chilliain.
I ask that the Minister of State work with me on this and that he help me get the results from the Department and the Minister for Education because schools in Dublin Mid-West are starting to run out of patience and the reality is we are running out of time for students who need places this September.
Under Project Ireland 2040, the Department of Education is investing well in excess of €5 billion over the period 2021-25 to add capacity and develop and upgrade school facilities across the country for the almost 1 million students and over 100,000 staff who learn and work in our schools every day. The Department of Education has a strong track record of delivery of school building projects and this was achieved again in 2023, notwithstanding the wider construction sector environment of high inflation, labour shortages and supply chain issues.
Since 2020, the Department of Education has invested in the region of €4.3 billion in schools, including the completion of over 470 school building projects, with construction currently under way at approximately 300 other projects which includes 34 new school buildings.
The Deputy clearly outlined a situation in her constituency. It sounds like one of the most pressing ones I have heard and in taking questions for the Minister, I have heard a few.
I do not have dates for the Deputy on the schools that are progressing at present but I will certainly take back her message to the Minister for Education.
It appears that there is inordinate pressure in the Deputy's constituency and information seems not exactly readily forthcoming. It might be possible for the Minister of State to ask the Department of Education, which is doing superb work all across the country, if a briefing could be organised for the Deputy to give her some understanding from officials as to where various projects are at.
I am happy to do that. I have only updates on two schools in my information here.
If the Minister of State could request that for the Deputy, it would be helpful.
School Transport
First, I thank the Minister of State for coming into the Chamber to take this Topical Issue. I know that the Minister of State has a particular interest in transport and rural transport because I saw the efforts that he made three-and-a-half years ago in the programme for Government negotiations, which went right down to the wire because of his insistence on providing transport for rural Ireland. I know he is particularly interested in this subject. However, I have to say I am very disappointed that neither the Minister, Deputy Foley, nor the Minister of State at the Department of Education are here to answer this particular Topical Issue because it is very much within their remit and it is not fair that it is left to the Minister of State, Deputy Joe O'Brien. Deputy O'Brien's portfolio is a very different one now and this is really for the Minister, Deputy Foley, and, to some extent, the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan.
There is a situation in Limerick where children are being driven to school. They used to have a school bus but do not at present. It is an immediate and urgent situation that needs to be resolved and I would like the Minister of State to take that back to the Minister, Deputy Foley, and the Minister of State, Deputy Madigan. The bus provider that had been providing the service has pulled out and now there are a lot of students being driven by their parents, grandparents and neighbours to school every morning because that service is no longer there.
I pay tribute to the students of the Salesian school in Pallaskenry who have mobilised on this particular issue. The school has a strong track record when it comes to sustainability generally. I met other students of the school recently when they were involved in the Shooting the Breeze project, which was all about the offshore wind potential off our Atlantic coast, and particularly for these students in west County Limerick when they grow up.
The school's interest and track record is excellent. They have mobilised. They formed a committee. The chair is a young man named Shane Fitzgerald. They are supervised by their teacher, Ms Marie Keane.
They have come to me and every other Oireachtas Member in Limerick city and county outlining this problem they have. They are not being selfish about it, however. They have outlined that it is a problem that exists throughout the country, given multiple transport systems do not speak to one another and are not integrated. Empty buses pass these children as they are being driven to school in the morning but they cannot use those buses. Even where school transport is provided, teachers and other staff cannot use the school buses. The transport system is not integrated.
I have previously called for school transport to be taken from the Department of Education and given to the Department in which it rightly belongs, namely, the Department of Transport, whereby all the services could be planned and co-ordinated effectively. Not having this service is putting undue stress on students and their families, and the example I have raised is only a microcosm of the problem throughout the State. It should be a priority of the Government to fix this. There is a shortage of resources at the moment but we are not working efficiently with the resources we do have. We need to resolve this as a matter of urgency.
Before I call the Minister of State, by way of explanation, the Minister, Deputy Foley, was attending an extraordinary event in Kildare earlier this afternoon, where more than 3,000 pupils and their teachers, from 17 schools, gathered to participate in a Brigid 1500 event, hence her unavailability. We are really glad to have the Minister of State here.
I thank the Ceann Comhairle. Before I address the specific issues raised by the Deputy, I will provide an outline of the extent of the school transport system. The school transport scheme is a significant operation managed by Bus Éireann on behalf of the Department of Education. In the current school year, more than 161,600 children, including over 135,000 pupils, travelling on primary and post-primary services; 19,800 pupils with special educational needs; and 6,800 pupils who have arrived to Ireland from Ukraine are transported daily to primary and post-primary schools throughout the country. The total cost of the scheme in 2023 was €382 million. There has been an overall increase in the number of both applications and tickets issued for the 2023-24 school year in comparison with the 2022-23 school year.
The school transport scheme is an important service for families and children. The purpose of the Department's scheme is, having regard to available resources, to support the transport to and from school of children who reside remotely from their nearest school. A review of the school transport scheme has been conducted with a view to examining the current scheme, its broader effectiveness and its sustainability and ensuring it services students and their families adequately. Considering how best to maximise the benefits now and into the future has been a significant factor in the ongoing review of the scheme, which commenced in February 2021.
Following the first phase of the review, temporary alleviation measures, TAMs, were introduced at post-primary level and are being continued for the current school year. Under these measures, which were initially introduced in 2019, transport is provided where a route in is operation and where capacity exists for concessionary post-primary pupils who are eligible for transport to their nearest school, are attending their second nearest school and applied and paid on time.
An analysis of school transport schemes in other jurisdictions was also conducted as part of this stakeholder engagement and review process, including the EU, the UK, the United States and Australia. This research outlined evidence of the need for a school transport service in an Irish context compared with some comparative countries, as well as an analysis of the costs to users of school transport services in some other jurisdictions.
The technical working group and the steering group have recently completed their work on the final report of the review, which includes recommendations on the future operation of the scheme. I am aware this review is much awaited. It is recognised improvements need to be made to the scheme and I know the importance of that happening. The Minister expects to be in a position shortly to bring the review to the Government, and further to Government approval, the review will be published.
In respect of the specific issues raised by the Deputy in this case, Bus Éireann has confirmed that the service to Salesian Secondary College in Pallaskenry, County Limerick, has not yet commenced due to driver shortages. It is understood this route affects 32 pupils, of whom nine are eligible, nine fall under the TAMs and 14 are concessionary. Bus Éireann is continuing to prioritise sourcing vehicles and drivers but has confirmed that a small number of routes remain without a service. This equates to less than 1% of pupils nationally, or less than 2% of vehicles, with services being provided daily for over 99.5% of pupils.
The Department has established an exceptional no-service interim grant to assist with the cost of private transport arrangements families may have to put in place until their service begins. It has contacted families directly in regard to this payment.
In respect of the route in question, the local school transport team is actively working to establish this service and will continue to engage with families involved.
I thank the Minister of State for the answer prepared by the Department of Education. We have been hearing about this review for a long time and we know the system is not working. Multiple systems are working in parallel but are not efficient. What is happening in Pallaskenry is a microcosm of the wider problem, notwithstanding that number of students represents a small percentage of the total. It is a microcosm of the inefficacy throughout the system. I expect the review to show it is inefficient and needs to be fundamentally reformed and I think the main reform will involve giving the remit for school transport to the Department of Transport, as is the case in every other country. This is a public transport issue.
A bus leaves Ballybunion at 6 a.m. and gets to Foynes at 6.57 a.m. and to Pallaskenry at 7.38 a.m. That is far too early to be useful for those students and the next bus is far too late. There is an utter lack of co-ordination when it comes to these services. It makes absolute sense that transport would be taken out of the Department of Education. This is fundamentally a transport issue and it should be given to the Department of Transport. What we are seeing in Pallaskenry and elsewhere in County Limerick is a microcosm of a serious problem throughout the State.
This is not just about going to and from school; it relates to our climate challenge, quality of life and costs for families. A lot of these families have a second car because one of the parents has to drive the children to school. If we could provide the service, these parents could give up the second car and save a lot of money. This needs to be resolved not just for the young people of Pallaskenry and its surrounds but for the entire country.
I hope the situation for those young people in Pallaskenry will be resolved soon. It is clear the Department is engaging with them.
I agree on the need for an integrated system and with the point the Deputy made about school buses doing their drop and then doing a return journey without passengers. That is certainly not efficient, in a variety of ways. Other Departments are also affected, including mine, the Department of Rural and Community Development, given we fund transport services through our community services programme. There are bits and pieces all over. "Integration" is the key word in respect of efficiency for not just the economic side, the climate and the environmental impact but also to provide a good service for people. I certainly agree with the Deputy's points about the integration of services.
I thank the Minister of State and all the Deputies.