Vol. 1053 No. 2
82. Deputy Kathleen Funchion asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth the person or body responsible for the property at a location (details supplied) in County Kilkenny; if it is his Department or the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage; if he is aware that there are enforcement issues regarding this property; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19198/24]
My question is on an issue about which I know the Minister is aware because we have discussed it a number of times. It is in respect of a property in County Kilkenny that he is aware of and on which he has the details. I am trying to figure out exactly what is the update in relation to it. Is it with the Department of Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth or with the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage? There are serious enforcement issues and other issues that I will go into later. I would appreciate if he could give us some information on it.
I thank the Deputy for her engagement on this issue, about which we have spoken a number of times, and her constituency colleague, the Minister of State, Deputy Noonan, has also been in touch on the issue.
In January 2023, through the online offers portal on gov.ie, my Department received a commercial offer of temporary accommodation for beneficiaries of temporary protection fleeing the conflict in Ukraine at the location to which the Deputy refers. As the proposal involved a property requiring significant conversion and refurbishment works, in February 2023 the offer was referred to the emergency refurbishment (Ukraine) programme, ERUP, overseen by the Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage and approved by Government.
As with all offers of accommodation to accommodate beneficiaries of temporary protection, but most particularly with regard to those requiring conversion or refurbishment, a detailed assessment must be carried out to ensure the property being offered is prepared to the required standard and complies with building, fire and other statutory requirements. The ERUP provides the structures to enable such assessments to take place with the assistance of local authorities.
The relevant council has assessed the plans for this proposal with regard to suitability, compliance with the guidelines for temporary accommodation in existing buildings for those fleeing the war in Ukraine, and the project's capacity to comply with key regulatory requirements. I understand that discussions in this regard are ongoing and any issues with regard to planning, environment or other regulatory requirements are being dealt with through that process.
I emphasise that my Department’s acceptance of this property is fully dependent on all the necessary statutory and regulatory requirements being met and the accommodation centre being substantially compliant with the aforementioned guidelines. In that regard, the property to which the Deputy refers is not currently in contract with my Department for the provision of accommodation to Ukrainians and will not be until the relevant conditions have been met. Our community engagement team informed the Deputy and other Deputies late last week of the current situation. There is currently no contract but we are engaging in respect of this property.
I thank the Minister. As he knows, we have a number of locations throughout Carlow and Kilkenny and I have no issue or difficulty. I am raising this issue because I share the concerns of the community. It is a fantastic community and there are already a number of Ukrainian families living in the area. It could be argued that the holiday homes there will not be proper, long-term accommodation but the community has rallied around and stepped up to welcome everybody.
The area in question is a rural townland and there is no infrastructure. I know of two other turnkey properties that have been offered in Kilkenny, one in the city and the other in Slieveroe. Those properties would be far more suitable. They are ready to go and it would make more sense to use them.
There is an issue because there is no public transport and there are no schools. It is a 13 km round trip to get to any shops, schools or facilities. There are also serious issues with public wastewater, sewerage and water. Building housing, for both the local authority or an individual, is not an option at the moment. This is an area that needs local authority housing but it is not an option due to those concerns in respect of sewerage and water. I do not see how this would be a suitable location. We are setting people up for failure if they move into the facility in question.
I thank the Deputy. I recognise that a significant number of Ukrainians are resident across counties Kilkenny and Carlow. I recognise the welcome they have received from communities. Ukrainians are being accommodated in urban and rural areas. People are being accommodated in many different situations all over Ireland. Our primary focus is on meeting the necessary guidelines we have set out for the refurbishment of buildings. The building in question is being considered under one specific stream, that is, the refurbishment stream, which applies to existing buildings that are being refurbished and repurposed for the provision of emergency accommodation solely for Ukrainians. As I say, the scheme being worked through the Department of housing is examining this particular building, but it will only be contracted by my Department for Ukrainian accommodation if it meets the requirements of those guidelines.
I understand there would be a mix or rural and urban accommodation but surely there must be consideration of whether transport and facilities are available. To put it in people's minds, the facility in question is an old equestrian centre, so you can imagine the level of accommodation we will be able to provide. It will certainly not be up to standard. There are also serious issues in respect of compliance, and I know that has been brought to the local authority's attention. What is frustrating for the people in the community is that they do not seem to be getting answers in respect of what they should do or to whom they should speak about the compliance issues. It feels as if no matter what happens, the box is going to be ticked. It is potentially setting a dangerous precedent, especially when there is a need for housing in that area and other people cannot build houses there because of the issues I have set out in respect of water and sewerage.
I welcome that the Minister has said no contract has been signed yet. There is, however, a feeling that serious works are going on, all day at times. Does someone do that level of work and get no contract? You can understand where the community is coming from, particularly when there are no answers. Sixty-six families moved in initially. The Minister is welcome to come to the area to see the seriously bad bend on the road. Those families were involved in getting high-visibility vests and everything else for people to allow them to be somewhat safe in the area. The facility is not suitable.
We have converted many types of buildings for use as Ukrainian accommodation. The Deputy has set out her concerns about the use of equestrian facilities but we have done it successfully in Millstreet and in Kill. Those are two areas in which we have converted equestrian accommodation into emergency accommodation in recent times, recognising the scale of our accommodation challenge.
I know from engagement with the Deputy and other TDs that there is an enforcement issue in respect of some materials or objects on the site. I understand that is being worked through with Kilkenny County Council at the moment.
For the contract, we require compliance with these guidelines and a contract will not be issued until we determine there is compliance. If there is no compliance, we will not be in a position to contract at the location irrespective of what works a potential provider might have done previously. I am happy to continue to engage with the Deputy on the issue.
83. Deputy Pauline Tully asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth further to Question No. 97 of 29 February 2024, for an update on the recruitment drive for the children's disability network teams, CDNTs, as referenced in the reply; to specifically outline how many staff have been recruited into the CDNTs in Cavan and Monaghan; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [19208/24]
I am taking this question on behalf of my colleague, Deputy Tully. The question is for the Minister of State, Deputy Rabbitte, and relates to a previous parliamentary question, namely, Question No. 97 on 29 February 2024. She is seeking an update on the recruitment drive for the CDNTs as referenced in the reply to the previous question of 29 February. My colleague is looking for a specific outline of how many staff have been recruited into the CDNTs in Cavan and Monaghan and asks the Minister of State to make a statement on the matter.
I thank the Deputy. The Government acknowledges the challenges faced by children and young people with disabilities and their families in accessing essential therapy services in Cavan and Monaghan. It is important to say that along with the Minister, Deputy Humphreys, and Deputies Brendan Smith and Niamh Smyth, I visited Monaghan in the past month and met the families concerned. Lead agencies are experiencing ongoing challenges recruiting across a range of disciplines and grades to fully staff their teams to maximum capacity. The Government is committed to facing these challenges and delivering real and tangible solutions to enhance disability services to better support children with special needs and their families across Ireland.
The most recent figures available indicate that the staff vacancy rate for the Enable Ireland team in Cavan is currently 58% with a total of 11.96 whole-time equivalent staff in situ. The staff vacancy rate for the HSE team in Monaghan under community healthcare organisation, CHO, 1 is 39.97%, with a total of 17.34 whole-time equivalent staff in situ.
I am pleased to report positive progress regarding the recent nationwide CDNT recruitment campaign, Be part of our team, be part of their lives, which received 495 applications. In CHO 1, 87 valid applications were received as part of the nationwide recruitment campaign. Lead agencies are conducting interviews with candidates and a report on the outcome of these interviews is awaited. It is important to say the campaign ran until nearly the end of January and closed then. It was at that stage candidates were shortlisted.
Now they are actually at their final stages. A lot of the interviews have happened, and they are at the stage of finalising and making offers available.
The HSE is also driving initiatives to provide the support so urgently needed for waitlisted children such as the children’s disability service grant fund. The HSE advises that the fund is now in the final stages of the assessment and evaluation process, which it expects to conclude imminently. In fact, before I came in here this evening, I met with Mr. Bernard O'Regan to discuss where exactly we are in ensuring that grant is made available as quickly as possible.
When the Minister of State says that it is a 58% staff vacancy rate, is she saying that the recruitment drive she is talking about is that to fill that 58%? Is she saying that there is a 58% shortage of staff, and is the recruitment drive she is talking about - which was at the end of January and is now in the final stages - to fill that? Okay. Perfect.
As we know, there is a major issue with the pay disparity that exists between HSE-run services and those run by section 39 organisations. We have come across some areas that were waiting on the money. I know there was, for example, a strike averted late last year. Are those issues all resolved now? I know from my own south-east area that we came across an area in Tipperary that was still waiting on money that we all thought was signed off on. I would appreciate an update on that. I know that is a bit vague, and sorry, I keep going over time.
I thank the Deputy for bringing me on to my specialist topic, which is unions. It is important to say with regard to the pay talks concluded last year that while it was very welcome, it has really highlighted the fact that we need the employers, which are the lead agencies of the section 39 organisations, more involved when it comes to pay negotiations and talks. The question is where it is at at this moment in time. There are 1,300-odd section 39 organisations that fall in under disabilities, and they are under the KOSI Corporation mechanism. Would you believe it, only 200 section 39 organisations have responded, which means there is a huge unmet financial piece there. We have the funds. They have been secured. They have been given to the HSE but there is a process involved in claiming that money, and it means the section 39 organisations have to fill out the forms in order to draw down the money.
I thank the Chair. I promise I will not go over time in this minute. When the KOSI mechanism was raised with us, there were some people who were not fully aware of exactly what that process is. Basically, KOSI is the middleman, for want of a better word. That is good to know.
I know the Minister of State touched on the disability services grant in the first part of the answer. Did she say that it has been launched?
No, it has not been launched yet.
Do we have a timeframe? I know the Minister of State said she was talking to Mr. Bernard O'Regan but there is no timeframe for that yet, or is there?
There is. I will tell the Deputy in my response.
Okay, that is grand. I will give the Minister of State an extra 25 seconds to make up for everything else.
As there was over €40 million worth of applications into the respite grant application form, which is absolutely massive, they had to spend a lot of time going through it and validating. In fact, the whole purpose of the respite grant is to provide a balance where we have a shortage in our CDNT teams, the local organisations that have the capacity to support through music, art or equine activities and other providers that are able to do the likes of OT or physiotherapy. This is done through various alternative methods. It is completely new to the HSE in that it involves looking away from the medical model completely with a piece that is more about social intervention. He has worked his way through, and we are within a fortnight of that money being launched out, and it will be going nationwide. There is not €40 million in that, trust me. However, at the same time, what is there is all required and supported by the local HSE pieces.
84. Deputy Catherine Connolly asked the Minister for Children, Equality, Disability, Integration and Youth further to Parliamentary Question No. 1148 of 20 March 2024, if the negotiation process between the expert negotiator and religious orders with regard to the mother and baby institutions redress scheme has been completed to date; if he has received any interim reports or updates during the process; if he plans to publish the final report; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [18992/24]
My question is specifically about the expert negotiator the Minister has appointed to mediate between the Government and the religious organisations. Where is that process at? It is almost a year now. I think in about 25 days' time, it will be a year. It is a quarter of a century since the Taoiseach apologised for all of the institutional abuse that occurred in the industrial schools. We have now moved on to the mother and baby homes. All institutions were abusive, as we know. A quarter of a century later, and almost a year after the Minister appointed a negotiator, we are none the wiser as to what the religious orders are going to contribute.
I thank the Deputy. The commission of investigation into mother and baby institutions made significant findings regarding the failings of the State and religious bodies, which together ran mother and baby and county home institutions. The Government believes all relevant parties have a collective responsibility to respond to the legacy of these institutions. As the Deputy knows, we have an action plan setting out 22 actions, one of which is the institutional payment scheme.
In May 2023, the Government approved my proposal to appoint Ms Sheila Nunan to act on my behalf in leading negotiations with religious bodies that had a historical involvement with mother and baby institutions. This is with a view to securing a financial contribution towards the cost of the payment scheme and it followed on from a series of meetings that I held with the bodies. My Department officials and I are committed to supporting Ms Nunan in her work. As part of this, the Department has procured financial experts to support Ms Nunan in her negotiations. This expertise from EY is in place since 15 November of last year and is ongoing. The EY task is to provide an independent financial assessment of the resources of each organisation involved. While I cannot specify a date on which this process will conclude, I anticipate that it will conclude within the coming months. I have not received a interim report and these negotiations, while ongoing, are being treated as confidential. A full report will be provided to the Government once the negotiations are concluded.
On the institutional payment scheme itself, I am sure the Deputy will be interested to know that 1,900 completed applications have been received by the independent office so far. Some 600 of those are now at determination stage, and I understand the first determinations have been issued to applicants already.
I thank the Minister for that welcome update regarding the number of applications. However, I will repeat: it is a quarter of a century since the apology, and every step of the way, every redress scheme has been faulty, including the one the Minister is standing over, which is unfair, unjust and excludes thousands of people. I think it excludes 24,000 people. It excludes those who suffered because of their race and those who were boarded out. The Minister knows that. The figure that has been allocated is €800 million, not all of which will go to the survivors who apply because there are administrative and legal costs. That is the background.
I am not blaming the Minister on this. I am seeking to get information from him where we are using kid gloves with religious orders. I remember back in 2002, the Minister at that stage, the former Deputy Woods, gave an indemnity to all of the religious organisations for €126 million. That was the lowest ebb ever. Now we are back, and we have a negotiator negotiating. Has the Minister a date for that at this stage, after all of this time?
I thank the Deputy. I am aware of the context, and that is why I thought it was important to get somebody with negotiation skills backed up by experts who have financial analysis to understand the means available to the orders and congregations with which these engagements are taking place. As I said earlier, I am not in a position to give a date today. I think it is important that we allow this process to run its course and that we allow these engagements to take place.
I know the very deep interest here in the Oireachtas, and particularly among those who spent time in these institutions, in the outcome of these negotiations. At the end of this process, there will be a clear outlining of the outcome of the negotiations, irrespective of what that outcome may be.
The Minister has confirmed that there have been no interim reports. We do not know when it will be published. Can he tell us if that report will be published after it goes to the Cabinet? I cannot emphasise enough the context of all of this. Every single scheme has been faulty. I am a great admirer of the religious orders; they do great work. However, they were not particularly good with respect to the institutions, to put it at its mildest. We are treating them with kid gloves after a deal was done - well before the Minister's time - for €128 million, with an indemnity given to them. There was utter respect through each report. If the Minister remembers the mother and baby home commission, we called the evidence from the survivors contaminated, while great respect was given to the evidence from the religious orders, the social workers and all else.
There has been a huge disrespect and an imbalance of power. Has the analysis of the assets been completed? Was it EY or another group that was appointed to carry out that cost analysis? Has it been completed and have the religious orders co-operated with that process? If it has not been completed, when will it be completed? Will the extra money go towards helping those who were excluded back into the scheme?
EY has been involved in this process since November last year. Its task is to provide an independent financial assessment of the resources available to each of the organisations involved. I am not aware as to whether its analysis has been completed.
Whether the report from the negotiator will be published at the end of the process will be a matter for the Government to make a determination on. A report will have to be brought to the Government. My recommendation would be to publish the report. It is important as part of the transparency of the process but it is also important that we have a final report. I do not think interim reports are useful in these particular situations, especially when a negotiation is ongoing. While I hear the Deputy's frustration and that of others, I do not believe in giving a running commentary in a negotiating process. I does not help its long-term goal.
