JOINT COMMITTEE ON THE ENVIRONMENT, HERITAGE AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT debate -
Tuesday, 27 Jan 2009

Waste Management: Discussion with Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

Chairman

We will now deal with waste management and the market for waste. Members will recall that at our meeting on 16 December 2008, the committee heard presentations by the Irish Waste Management Association on the collection of waste and its concerns regarding that activity and from Repak on its concerns regarding waste markets.

We welcome officials from the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government to discuss this matter. Representatives of the Environmental Protection Agency have sent apologies for being unable to attend today but we expect them to attend to discuss this subject next month. We will make a report after we hear from them.

I thank the delegation for attending today. We are joined by Mr. Ronan Mulhall, principal officer in the waste policy, prevention and recovery section, Mr.Kevin O'Donoghue, assistant principal officer, Mr. Paris Beausang, higher executive officer, Mr. Michael Layde, principal officer in the waste policy, review and regulation section and Mrs. Jean Clarke, environment inspector. All of the delegates are very welcome.

The format of today's meeting will involve a presentation from the delegates, followed by a question and answer session. Before they begin the presentation, I draw the attention of the delegates to the fact that members of the committee have absolute privilege but this does not apply to witnesses who appear before the committee. Members of the committee are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary whereby they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against any person outside the Houses, or an official, by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I ask the delegates to begin the presentation.

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

I thank the Chairman and members of the committee for this opportunity.

I will briefly set out the background to the current issue in terms of recyclate markets. I appreciate that the committee has previously heard from representatives of both the waste management industry and from Dr. Peter Bacon and REPAK on this issue.

Some 75% of recyclate collected in Ireland is sent abroad for final recycling. In particular, a very strong market has been provided in India and most notably in China in recent years. As the Chinese economy grew, so too did demand for recyclate to feed its manufacturing industries. The transport and environmental costs were reduced by the large volumes of freighters bringing consumer goods to Europe from China, with plenty of spare capacity on return journeys.

With the downturn in the world economy, demand and prices for recyclate fell. Furthermore, in terms of plastic, the recent drop in oil prices makes virgin material more attractive. In October of last year the price drop was dramatic and markets closed for a time. Officials met Irish Waste Management Association, IWMA, representatives on Friday 24 October where issues relating to temporary storage were raised by the industry. Following consultation with the EPA, a circular outlining permitting options and the urgent nature of the situation issued from the Department to local authorities on the afternoon of 24 October. Guidance also issued from the EPA to the industry that afternoon.

On 31 October, the Minister announced the establishment of an action group to examine the situation and report within two weeks. The action group comprises representatives of industry, local authorities, the EPA, Enterprise Ireland, the executive team implementing the market development programme and the Department.

The Minister decided on the following. The action group should continue to meet regularly to contribute to Ireland's response to the situation. A number of sub-groups should be established to drive action on the following issues: markets, including quality and development of best practice, licensing and enforcement and public infrastructure. Regarding markets, the market development programme's implementation team would be asked to compile a database of outlets and companies that accept recyclates in Ireland to promote the movement of these goods. The development of a national brokerage for recyclates, to ensure that Irish companies have help in achieving better deals in world markets, should be examined. The business plan for the implementation of the market development programme should be reviewed to take account of the need to provide high quality paper and plastic to secure markets and the growing importance of developing an indigenous recycling industry. A circular should issue to all local authorities requesting them to prioritise enforcement activity to deter illegal dumping. An additional €2 million will be provided in 2009 to underpin the continued viability of local authority recycling infrastructure and public confidence in recycling.

As the members will appreciate, the issue is an international one and in light of this, the Department first raised it at a meeting of EU directors of waste policy on 14 November 2008. The Minister then raised the issue at the December Environment Council, where he garnered the support of 12 other member states. The European Commission has undertaken to carry out a review of the situation and report back with options for action. The Czech Presidency will take the issue on for the next Environment Council.

Ireland, represented by Ms Clarke at the December meeting, also raised the issue of the Article 21 committee on packaging waste. The Commission responded and noted that it was supported by many at the Council who raised issues such as storage, the structuring of markets and how they can be influenced and what measures can be proposed. Green procurement was one option to be considered. The Czech Presidency will continue with this and will probably produce a discussion paper for the next environment Council.

The first of the sub-groups, relating to markets, met on 6 January last and will feed back into the main action group. At this meeting, it emerged from industry and REPAK that material is now moving and that the levels of recyclables in storage have reduced. While markets reopened and prices recovered slightly in December, plastics, in particular, pose an issue due in large part to the low price of oil allowing for the provision of cheap virgin plastic. While the volume of low grade material for which recycling markets cannot be found has reduced, the issue must still be addressed as a matter of some urgency. Some estimates place the volume at circa 8,000 tonnes, a considerable reduction on that on hand in November. Among the options being considered for such material is its use as a refuse derived fuel to displace fossil fuels in cement kilns here in Ireland. Meetings are being facilitated between the owners of the material and the cement industry. This method would have the advantage of both displacing fossil fuels and dealing with the material on the island in accordance with the proximity principle, rather than simply exporting it.

Indications are that in tandem with the current economic downturn, markets will remain depressed for some time, although it is clear that markets will remain available for good, high quality recyclate. In this context, a number of actions are being taken to ensure that Irish material will meet the requirements of the international markets into the future. The Department continues to invest in the provision of materials recovery facilities, most recently €26 million in the provision of a state of the art facility at Ballymount in Dublin. Improved separation technologies will greatly enhance our ability to deliver the high quality recyclable materials that the international markets continue to seek. The public too, who have played the main role the success of recycling, must continue to present clean segregated material in their recycling bins and at their recycling centres and take steps to minimise any potential contaminants in the materials being presented for separate collection.

The current situation highlights Ireland's key dependence on external markets and this is likely to continue, given our relative size and population. However, there are opportunities presented by the change in the marketplace. The greater use of Irish recyclates as raw material by indigenous manufacturing industries will become more attractive as quality standards are introduced and awareness of material flows improve. The Minister has announced a market development programme, which will involve a commitment of €13 million over five years to develop markets for Irish recyclate in Ireland. It will have a particular focus on three key areas, vis-à-vis organics, plastics and paper and cardboard. It will involve the following broad initiatives. Technical initiatives will see the development of materials standards and systems of quality control so that the market can have confidence in the product’s consistency and reliability. Communications and marketing initiatives will aim at overcoming barriers that exist due to a lack of awareness and understanding of the possible benefits of recycled materials and their availability by creating dialogue and co-operation between stakeholders. Economic incentives will support innovation and product development and cross-sectoral initiatives between those managing the waste-derived resource and those creating new products. A work plan for the programme for 2009 will be published shortly and the work of the programme will be kept under review in light of future market conditions.

At the pinnacle of the waste hierarchy is prevention and minimisation and we must also address this as a matter of urgency. A number of initiatives are currently being delivered by the EPA through the national waste prevention programme's green business initiative, which includes a web-based assistance programme for industry as well as the green hospitality award programme. Only last week 54 green hospitality awards were presented to hotels participating in the programme, which now has more than 80 award winners. It is hoped to increase the participation in the scheme this year from 180 hotels and catering firms to 300.

In addition, it is expected that an agreement similar to the Courtauld commitment in the UK will be concluded in the coming weeks with the retail sector to deliver reductions in packaging used in a large number of supermarkets throughout the country. This will have benefits for the environment, business and consumer. As I outlined, the current market difficulties are international in nature. Their impact is being particularly felt by a number of EU member states such as Ireland whose size or geographical location means they do not have large indigenous markets for recyclates. The issue will continue to be addressed at national level through the action group. The European Commission will present its analysis and suggest proposals for action at the next meeting of the Environment Council.

I thank the committee for its attention. We will be happy to answer any questions members may have.

Chairman

I would like to ask about the temporary storage of various items while we are waiting for the market to improve. Reference was made to the possibility of using certain materials to produce a refuse-derived fuel. I presume it involves burning rubbish in cement kilns. Is planning permission required for both processes? Great controversy has been associated with the storage of material that has been burnt in cement kilns. I ask Mr. Mulhall to speak about these planning issues.

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

There are links and requirements between the permitting and planning regulations. There are certain restrictions governing the burning of fuels in cement kilns. It is not simply a question of putting black-bag rubbish in cement kilns.

Chairman

We know we are talking about recyclables. We did not mention rubbish

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

No. The material will need to be subject to some degree of pre-treatment before it goes to the cement kilns. Licensing issues are associated with the use of fuels in cement kilns. Just one facility has an EPA licence to use such fuel.

Chairman

Where is it?

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

The company in question is Lagan Cement.

Chairman

It is somewhere in the midlands.

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

Yes. I cannot think of the address.

Chairman

It is in County Offaly or County Westmeath. It is the only company which can deal with this material in the short term.

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

Yes, in the immediate or short term.

Chairman

Is the incineration of recyclates taken into account when national recycling targets are being measured?

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

No.

Chairman

Is there a need for a change in the manner in which these matters are categorised? If the material collected in recycling bins ends up being used in cement kilns, is it honest to say it is being recycled?

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

No material is going to cement kilns at this stage. It is intended to try to find markets for it in the normal fashion in order that it can be properly recycled into new products, etc. At the end of this downturn it will probably be impossible to deal with some contaminated material by fully recycling it. This group intends to find markets for such material. That is why there is temporary storage.

Chairman

What is the position on temporary storage in terms of planning permission? I presume they require——

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

There are requirements.

Chairman

We all know the planning process can take up to one year. An Bord Pleanála is an automatic part of the process when applications of this nature are made. What is feasible in 2009 under either of these headings?

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

I will ask my colleague, Mr. Layde, to answer that question.

Mr. Michael Layde

We are talking about using existing facilities for storage, rather than providing new ones.

Chairman

Okay.

Mr. Michael Layde

The real issue is the question of the permit or licence required to allow the material to be stored for a period of time. The EPA and local authorities are taking steps to ensure the necessary bureaucracy is dealt with quickly in order that the material can be stored. Therefore, the question of constructing new facilities should not arise.

Chairman

If a recycling depot for onward-moving material is to be turned into a storage facility, people will not think it is merely a bureaucratic matter. They will take a considerably different view. I am playing devil's advocate. The public will not think it is merely a question of getting a different waste permit. People will be concerned about the change of use.

Mr. Michael Layde

If the material under discussion is stored for longer than a very short period, it will be legally regarded as waste at that stage. We are talking about temporary storage in existing facilities.

Chairman

I would like to raise a final issue before I call other members of the committee. In his concluding remarks Mr. Mulhall referred to the Courtauld commitment made in the United Kingdom. Will he explain what that means to members of the committee and the public? I have never before heard of it.

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

It is a commitment to reduce the amount of packaging waste produced by the retail sector. We expect to be able to announce percentage reductions, in line with targets, in the amount of packaging produced by the various retailers and used in their stores.

Chairman

Recycling has been an element of the various regional and national waste management plans. When does Mr. Mulhall envisage that the public will be able to have confidence that the items they put in their recycling bins will be recycled in this country? By exporting everything to be recycled, we are exporting part of our waste management policy. If we do not deal with our waste locally, we contribute on a national scale to some of the problems mentioned such as the proximity principle and waste tourism. Like all members of the committee, I was a member of the local authority which dealt with waste management. To the best of my knowledge, the export of waste has never been a feature of the waste management plans that are probably still in use in the various regions. Even though it is not on the waste management pyramid, it now seems to be an integral part of that process. It was never spelled out at local level that it was planned to export waste. I never saw it on any of the pyramids. How does it link with the local waste management plans about which we fought when we were members of local authorities?

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

We would prefer recyclate to be viewed as a resource, rather than as waste. Therefore, it is a resource that is being exported. Ideally, we would like to add value to it here by processing it to the final stage. Issues such as the size of this country have an impact on the viability of recycling plants here. I am not sure whether the Irish internal market for recyclate is sufficient. The export of waste should not take place until as much pre-treatment as possible has taken place in this country. The market development programme involves creating indigenous markets and encouraging those who have ideas about using waste-derived resources in new products. It is inevitable that a certain percentage of this resource will have to be exported. The export of a resource, as opposed to a form of waste, meant that money was coming into the country until quite recently, when certain issues arose on foot of the downturn in the markets.

Deputy Michael Fitzpatrick

"Recycling" is a buzz word. Is it all co-ordinated at county, regional and national level? I do not propose to name the various companies involved in collecting material for recycling but is there a certain degree of overlap? Is there too much competition among those collecting recyclable material? We know what happens to glass because we are familiar with the various glass recycling centres. Most bring banks — little stations where clothes, glass and other bits and pieces are deposited — are used by people who dump stuff there and run away. They sometimes create a nuisance for local people. Perhaps they should not be located near residential areas. Perhaps they should be located elsewhere.

The delegates have informed us that 75% of the material taken away to be recycled is exported. Does the Government have a policy of trying to deal with all recyclable items in this country, before exporting them at their highest possible value? For many years we have seen dozens of newspapers left over in retail outlets at the end of each day. I do not know where they go after they are pummelled into big packs. They are probably recycled. That matter has been addressed by the paper people and it is no longer a problem.

On the temporary storage of recyclables, are there recycling facilities close to landfills? Are people barred from having recycling facilities at landfill sites? In my constituency of Kildare Bord na Móna has a very large landfill facility which is very well run and maintained. However, there are no recycling facilities within easy reach of that facility. Are people encouraged to have recycling facilities close to landfills or are they discouraged?

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

In terms of adding value and having an industry in Ireland, that is at what the market development programme will be aimed, that is, adding value to the product and, possibly, a final item in order that the recycled material will be collected, treated and turned into a new product. There some small examples of this. The change in the market will make it more attractive for those who hold recyclables to deal with indigenous industry and companies which would like to take that material for their new products rather than export it.

On the temporary storage and collection of materials at landfills, landfill sites sometimes host collection facilities for recycling. It would not be unusual, in particular in local authority areas, for such facilities to be located on a similar site. There are a number of civic amenity sites away from landfills and so on to which one can bring one's recyclable materials. There are also bring banks located in urban areas.

Deputy James Bannon

A number of elaborate plans and regional policy documents were prepared approximately ten years ago in which counties were lumped together. For instance, in the midlands counties Longford, Westmeath, Laois, Offaly and north Tipperary were part of one region. There were also western, southern and Dublin regions. Much work went into this process and many reports were prepared but nothing positive ever came from them. What is the position on the regional plans prepared by the Department at considerable cost to the State?

The strong markets, etc., were mentioned but that was in 2006. They were in far off places such as China and India and it proved costly to export waste to them. We should undertake more research into the development of recycling facilities to try to create jobs here. It could be an industry in its own right. For instance, there are mountains of plastic wrapping from bales of silage which could be recycled easily. What efforts have been made by the Department to develop recycling facilities for materials such as bale wrapping and so on?

Mr. Michael Layde

I will deal with the regional management plans; my colleague might wish to add comments on the specific recycling issue raised by the Deputy. The plans to which he referred are still very much in place. Each of the regions which has created a statutory waste management plan remains in existence and the plans are at the heart of delivering a waste management policy. That has not changed. All of the plans include ambitious recycling targets which the Department supports through, for example, its grant scheme to support local authority recycling facilities. A further dimension is that we are conducting a review of waste management policy generally. Consultants have been engaged to carry out a study to underpin that review which we expect to conclude in the current year. It is very broad in scope but one aspect involves looking at the institutional arrangements made for regional waste management planning and so on to see if they are still fit for purpose. The Minister will reach conclusions later in the year when the study has been completed.

Chairman

What does Mr. Layde mean by "institutional arrangements"?

Mr. Michael Layde

It covers, for example, the question of where statutory responsibility rests. Local authorities have primary responsibility for waste management, although under the law, they have the facility to act in regional groupings. As the Chairman will know, a small number — Wicklow, Kildare and Donegal County Councils — have individual county waste management plans but, by and large, local authorities have found it useful to form into regional groupings. That has been the position until now. One of the issues which has been raised is whether there is a need for national co-ordination of these plans. Again, that forms the basis of another potential institutional arrangement. The current review is designed to look at all of these aspects. It may be concluded that the approach followed is the best one but there is the potential to review the way we organise waste management arrangements and make any changes judged necessary.

Deputy James Bannon

It is over ten years since those regional plans were prepared. At the time we were told — I served on a local authority, as well as the Midland Regional Authority — that responsibility for the functions relating to the plans would be devolved to regional authorities. The regional authorities are still in existence but have become talking shops, as they have not been given many powers by the Department. We believed implementation of the plans could take place at regional level but that has not been the case to date. Are there any plans to give additional powers to regional authorities?

Mr. Michael Layde

The regional waste management plans are separate from the concept of having regional authorities. For example, as I mentioned, three counties have their own free-standing waste management plans. Statutory responsibility rests with individual local authorities but, generally, local authorities group together in regions for each of which one local authority tends to act as the lead authority in procurement and so on. There is that level of co-ordination. In the review under way, that is the type of issue which will be looked at — whether there is a need to reorganise the way we manage waste. The plans are very much alive. The Deputy referred to their iteration ten years ago but they were all reviewed a couple of years ago and revised plans were formally adopted. They are current, although they require change from time to time to adjust to changing circumstances such as what is happening in recycling.

Deputy James Bannon

Has the Department decided on which is the lead local authority within the regions? Do we have such information?

Mr. Michael Layde

The local authorities determine that matter, not the Department. They determined the regional groupings; the Department did not impose them. The Waste Management Act provides that local authorities may act in such a fashion and the majority have chosen to do so, not at our direction but because they believed it was the most appropriate way to organise themselves. Individual local authorities will take the lead role. In Dublin, for example, Fingal County Council has taken the lead role in regard to landfill sites. That decision was made within the region; it was not imposed by the Department.

Deputy James Bannon

Was Dublin considered to be a region in its own right?

Mr. Michael Layde

When I say "regional", I refer to the region covered by the regional waste management plan. There are regions for varying purposes across the public services. They do not always follow the same grouping of counties. I refer specifically to the regions formed under the Waste Management Act for the purposes of waste management rather than any other regions.

Chairman

In the midlands, Offaly County Council is the lead authority in processing waste collection permits for all the midland counties. That agreement has been entered into among the ones in the midlands plan. Some of them have done that but they might not be the lead authority for landfill, although they have implemented parts of the plan.

Deputy James Bannon

There is no lead authority in the midlands.

Chairman

Mr. Mulhall might answer the question on bale wrapping.

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

On the issue of developing a recycling infrastructure in Ireland, there has been some progress but it is essentially a tradeable commodity. In terms of the farm plastics, we have had the producer responsibility initiative dating back to 1997. Quite an amount, over 30,000 tonnes, has been collected. That sort of material could feed into new industries in Ireland.

Part of the market development programme will be to work with people who have ideas about developing new products from the material there. An awareness must be developed of the type of material which is collected as part of the recycling collections and the purposes to which it can be put. It is an issue of developing awareness, of making the linkages between those who have the material, the collectors, and those with ideas for its reuse and of supporting trials, product development and other such initiatives.

Chairman

What would Mr. Layde say to the comment that some of the regional plans have been superseded by the private sector? The private sector collects in one county and takes the waste to where it is economic to dispose of it, irrespective of regional plans. One cannot stop a lorry crossing a county boundary. People thought they were signing up to regional plans but there have been so many amalgamations in the waste business in Ireland, we now have a handful of companies which can cover most of the country and they can take waste from one province to another if it suits.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

I thank the delegation for the presentation. It is clear from what we have heard that unfortunately, external markets play a huge part in recycling. That is an issue at which we will have to look. How much research has been done on the possibility of doing much more with our recyclable material? We have reached a stage where we have the public on board. It took quite a while for it to adopt the mindset that it is good to recycle. It is unfortunate that we find ourselves in this position where the market is determined by how we handle this.

It was said that this is an EU problem rather than a national one. We must look first at it as a national problem because the material is generated here. While we import much material which creates this waste, we should look more at those who create the waste and at their input into what we are trying to achieve. What pressure are we putting on them at national and European levels to reduce this type of waste?

We now realise this is a problem but at first we thought we would make money out of recycling. We now find it will be a cost. We should go after the people who create this waste as they are making money from the products being produced and packaged with this material. How far have we gone in terms of making them responsible? We are playing our part. It took us some time to reach this stage and I would not like to see something happen which would take us back rather than forward.

The €26 million investment to provide a materials recovery facility in Ballymount, Dublin, was mentioned. How much money is required to treat this material or to bring it to a stage where it would be easier to handle and market?

Mr. Michael Layde

In regard to the private sector, what the Chairman said is correct. Ireland is unusual in EU terms in that we have such a developed and vibrant private waste management sector. That is something which has gathered pace in recent years. As the Chairman said, there has been a consolidation in the industry and there is now a relatively small number of larger players.

It is important to stress that the local authorities remain the regulators of the sector. Whether waste collectors are large or small, they require collection permits which are issued by the local authorities. We recently reviewed the regulations governing local authority action in that way. The local authorities can use those permits to impose whatever conditions they believe necessary on the service providers to ensure the objectives set out in the regional waste management plan are met. There is that linkage.

That said, there is a recognition that there are issues surrounding regulation of the market which were not apparent until quite recently. The Department has carried out a public consultation on this. The Minister is considering the response to that in the context of the overall review of waste management policy, which I mentioned. He will bring forward any proposals he considers necessary to ensure that the market now and into the future is regulated having regard to the conditions in the market and the changes which have taken place.

Chairman

Mr. Layde did not mention the role of the EPA in terms of the private sector. Most facilities, whether materials recovery or landfill, require EPA permits. We would see the role of the EPA as being far more significant at local level in terms of monitoring what is happening than that of the local authorities.

Mr. Michael Layde

There are two sides. One is the collection side, which I mentioned and which remains with the local authorities. In regard to facilities, there are two possibilities. The smaller facilities continue to be regulated by the local authorities and they can issue a facilities permit under a separate set of regulations.

The Chairman is right that the larger facilities, for example landfills, are regulated by the EPA under a waste licence issued under the Act. This has brought about a marked improvement in landfills, whether operated by the local authority or the private sector because they are treated in precisely the same way. We have now moved from a situation where we had hundreds of poorly regulated and poorly managed landfills to one in which we have approximately 30 landfills in the country, all of which operate under an EPA licence which governs not only the conditions which should apply during the lifetime of the landfill but also after it closes in terms of after care and so on. That has substantially enhanced our capacity to regulate landfills. As a national organisation, the EPA is also in a position to develop internal expertise, which is difficult in the case of individual local authorities. This has been a beneficial development.

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

On the level of research, the market development programme will facilitate some research on the development of new products and adding value to the resource we are collecting. People are presenting good quality recyclable material. The idea of the market development programme is to identify opportunities for the use of these products. Work will be done on this with industry, which has indicated a willingness to work towards developing new products from the material collected.

Prior to Christmas, we noted indications of movement on the markets although the prices achieved are unlikely to reach the peaks recorded in 2008 and, to some extent, 2007. The business model for companies collecting the material may change. They have indicated they want to work with other stakeholders to develop new products because this would create potential sources of income for them.

Prevention was cited as a key element. It is for this reason that we are working with the retail sector to try to develop an agreement on reducing packaging. One of the issues the Minister raised in his contribution to the December Environment Council was on efforts by a number of member states, including Ireland, to reach agreements with domestic retail sectors. It would probably be better to try to achieve agreements on reductions with large brand holders at EU level. This may inform some of the proposals the Commission produces because it would be ideal if our dealings with major brands were to take place at EU level. Again, this is a question of the size of the Irish market.

The other issue arising in the area of prevention is the success of the national waste prevention programme. Under this programme, we work with business and industry to show how prevention can save them money. The greenbusiness.ie website allows businesses to carry out audits of water, waste and energy and thus drive prevention.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

What industries have been identified as targets for taking recyclable material or finished products? What type of industries would use such materials?

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

There are a number of examples. For instance, some plastic material can be turned into plastic curbing to replace traditional concrete curbing. A number of innovative ideas have been proposed, some of which have been realised.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

Who is using this type of material?

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

A number of local authorities, particularly in the United Kingdom, are using it and trials will take place in a number of locations here.

Deputy Joanna Tuffy

I thank the delegation for its presentation. Instability in the market may have become more acute recently but it is not a new issue. For example, when the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government and the Department of Environment in the North carried out a North-South study into the feasibility of establishing an Irish paper mill, one of the reasons given in support of such a facility was the need to provide stable domestic markets for paper and cardboard. I believe the study was published in 2004, 2005 or 2006.

An organisation known as WRAP, based in the United Kingdom, was referred to in publicity for the study. I understand part of its remit is in meeting the need for domestic markets for recyclable materials. Dr. Peter Bacon, in his report published before Christmas, noted that the United Kingdom was faring better than Ireland in the current market for recyclable goods because it has domestic facilities, including a paper mill.

While I do not argue that the quality of material is not a factor, it is a red herring to suggest this issue is the main problem. Quality was not a problem until the markets collapsed. It was clear from Dr. Peter Bacon's report that the collapse in market prices is the issue. When the markets were good the quality of material was fine. Dr. Bacon noted that now the markets have collapsed, we must consider part-processing materials, an issue Mr. Mulhall alluded to in the context of plastics. The issue is not the material but the markets and that should be our focus.

According to a newspaper report published before Christmas, the Minister planned to seek European Union funding to subsidise the recycling industry in these hard times, for example, to support the transport of material to waste to energy markets. Was money sought during the consultations to which Mr. Mulhall referred? Is the provision of funding under consideration at EU level?

Representatives of REPAK and the waste management operators joined Dr. Peter Bacon to make a presentation to the joint committee. The operators stated they wanted Government money to subsidise the cost of moving material out of storage and transporting it abroad to waste to energy markets. Has material been sent to these markets? What has been the Minister's response to the request for subsidies?

Mr. Mulhall referred to market development. The relevant section of the presentation does not discuss in detail the issue of job creation but instead highlights technical, communications and marketing initiatives and economic incentives. What is the status of the proposal to have an Irish paper mill? What is the position regarding job creation in this sector, whether by the State on its own or in collaboration with private business? An example would be the establishment of social employment schemes for graduates emerging from college with few job prospects. In the 1980s, when I completed college, I was unable to find a job and enrolled in a social employment scheme. I am not sure graduates would be able to do this nowadays. An obvious area to establish these types of jobs is in environmental goods and services. Will the delegation consider driving the efforts to create jobs and perhaps tying these efforts in to initiatives to help people secure training and employment in waste management and environmental services?

Deputy Johnny Brady

I apologise for my late arrival. I had to leave the meeting to attend another meeting. Although I missed the presentation, I read the document provided by our guests on which I compliment them.

For years, farm plastics, to which Deputy Bannon referred, has been a serious problem. In 2007, a successful scheme was in place in County Meath. One of the collection points close to where I live was very successful. I was invited to it by the farming organisations and the local company that was providing the premises on the morning of the count following the general election and I was astonished at the number of tractors and trailers with loads of plastic. They were queuing for a mile. It was fabulous to see that. There was assistance from the State through local authorities for that scheme. The plastic was brought to the collection point and it was then baled and exported. It was a marvellous opportunity for farmers to get rid of their waste. Unfortunately, no scheme has been in place since then. That scheme operated successfully in almost every county. It can be unsightly to see years' worth of polythene piled up in a corner here, there and everywhere in a farmer's yard. The danger is that somebody will light a match and a fire would do an enormous amount of damage. We do not want to see that happening. I would welcome the reintroduction of a scheme of that nature as it has been excellent in the past.

We can all talk about recycling. We have made great strides from previous times when everything was thrown into a bin that went to landfill. I am not around too often to put the bin out but I noticed around Christmas that the bin destined for landfill was only approximately one quarter or half full but the recycling bins were full every two weeks. That is the case in every house and it is great to see it. There are black bins in some areas. We do not have black bins in my area but we have green bins and blue bins. It is marvellous to see that development.

We have great facilities. In my town there is a new recycling centre that received significant State funding. It was slow to get off the ground but thank God there is a great demand for it now. It must be attractive for private companies to get involved in waste disposal. Returning home on Sunday last by a short cut from a wedding I came through my old constituency and I noticed a recycling company near Slane that has added a massive extension to its premises. I do not know whether its purpose is storage or whatever else but there is already an impressive building in place. Given the likes of that development I can only conclude waste disposal must be going well. In my constituency a company has built a new centre at Clonmellon that is also going well. It is great to see all of those developments. However, given the current lack of demand for recycled material abroad I am worried that when incinerators are up and running, such material will it be burned off. I hope that does not happen and that we will continue to recycle waste. Recycling is important and we must encourage it. We must all play our part to ensure that recycling continues.

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

I will take Deputy Tuffy's questions first. Regarding the input of the Commission and the European Union, the Minister asked that consideration would be given by the EU to support the industry during the downturn in the markets. We await the response of the Commission, which is conducting an analysis of the situation. That ties in to a certain extent with the use of environment fund moneys for waste to energy. As far as I am aware the material has not gone that route. No environment fund money has been provided for it. A number of issues arise in that regard. In terms of our expenditure, the money from the environment fund is largely committed already. That has been noted.

In terms of the paper mill and moneys from the market development programme — €13 million over five years — being used to develop our industry, while the level of money is significant it would probably not be sufficient in terms of capital to build reprocessing plants. An indication of the level of investment required is that €26 million was contributed by the State for the material recovery facility at Ballymount. The intention is that the money from the market development programme will be used to work with industry, which in turn will, we hope, create jobs and new industry in Ireland. It will support the development of new products in particular and help to make linkages between those with the resource and those who intend to develop new products.

Quality ties in to market awareness and marketability. We need to be able to demonstrate clearly the high quality of the material and also its reliability and consistency so that those who develop a product from recycled material can have confidence in the supply of a high quality raw material for new product development.

In reply to Deputy Brady's question on farm plastics, there still is a producer responsibility initiative. The Irish Farm Film Producers Group has a website, farmplastics.ie, which lists the collection points and other information. The latest figures available to me are from 2007 which indicate more than 9,000 tonnes of film was collected for reprocessing.

Chairman

Repak told us previously that companies involved with recycling must register with it. I understand the legislation makes provision for companies that choose not to register with Repak to register through their local authority and pay a fee. Will the witnesses provide information on how many companies register with local authorities and pay the fee locally in order to fulfil their legislative obligations? What funds are being generated in each local authority? We asked the EPA that question when it was before the committee recently and it did not have the information. I could not understand how the Department and the EPA send reports to Europe each year on the implementation of a waste management and recycling plan without that information. The impression I received is that the information is not being gathered by anyone. The EPA certainly did not have it. I hope the Department can get it and send it to the committee in written form.

In addition, I ask the officials to send a note on waste electrical and electronic equipment, WEEE. We did not get into a discussion of that matter today but we would like to know how it is faring. It was a great initiative. One can see the information relating to it on receipts. It appears that the public took to it well. It is a great system that when a new washing machine is delivered the old one is taken away. Are electrical appliances encountering the same problems as other recyclables? Perhaps the officials can comment on that but also provide a note with more detail.

Are there any proposals on a chewing gum levy to get it off streets? Many people are in favour of such a measure but then it goes off the agenda. Local authorities spend money removing chewing gum from streets. What is the position in that regard?

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

We will notify the Chairman on those matters. WEEE is affected to a lesser extent but we are still more than double the target of 4 kg per person. Again, that system is working well.

Chewing gum comes under litter rather than this area and I will pass that question to my colleagues in that section of the department.

Chairman

Fine, but it is not outside the witnesses' remit to get the information for the committee.

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

Absolutely not.

Chairman

The officials can send us a note on where we are on that matter, as it arises in terms of litter and waste management.

Deputy Michael Fitzpatrick

Who initiates the making of provisions for civic amenity centres in a given location? Deputy Brady mentioned the one in Kells. I understand the Department approved one for Kilcock in County Kildare many years ago but the council never seems to provide it. If the council applies for funding for it, it is up to it to provide it. I understand the cost of running and managing the centre would be more than the income that would be obtained from it. Is there any way to put pressure on the council to provide a centre?

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

The Department would issue a circular inviting proposals for civic amenity sites and applications for capital funding. It is then a matter for local authorities to make proposals. These are assessed and funding is made available accordingly. We obviously do not make funding available unless the facility in question is being developed. Once the facility is up and running, there is a subvention towards the recycling costs of local authorities. Last year operating grants of €10 million were provided, plus €2 million for the recovery of waste electrical and electronic equipment. This year, there will be an additional €2 million to reflect the additional costs associated with the downturn in the markets and the drop in the income to local authorities from this resource.

Deputy Michael Fitzpatrick

Those who want to get involved in recycling approach the local enterprise board or county council but never seem to be able to get off the ground. I know one operator who began recycling paper and then began to recycle various other items. Then, because of the lack of co-operation from the local authority in Kildare, he moved to Wicklow, where it is trying to provide something substantial. Are there contacts in the Department to whom such people could be referred, so operators such as the one to which I refer could be helped develop their products?

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

Certainly, such people could be referred to us in the first instance. However, the development of a new product would be part of the job of the implementation team for the market development programme. It has a temporary website up and running. When the work plan for 2009 is published, as it will be shortly, it will contain contact details, but the Department can provide them in the interim.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

What investment is needed to allow for the reuse of products? Deputy Fitzpatrick referred to this. There are so many recyclable materials that it is probably a hard question to answer.

In his presentation, Mr. Mulhall stated "plastics, in particular, pose an issue due in large part to the low price of oil allowing for the provision of cheap virgin plastic." We are manufacturing virgin plastic although we have recyclable material. If there is a glut of plastic to be recycled, can its recycling be prioritised over the production of virgin plastic? We are creating a new problem by doing the latter. This may be worth considering.

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

The investment required will vary depending on the product. I could not give the Deputy a straight answer because the end use, the material being sourced and the treatment required to create the final product must also be considered.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

Have many companies or individuals made inquiries about this matter? Are people interested in getting involved in recycling?

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

In addition to the market development programme, Enterprise Ireland, which is contributing to our action group on the recycling markets, is working with firms to provide both funding and contacts in marketing. There are a number of interested companies. It is a function of the implementation team for the market development programme. We have occasional contact from firms that are interested in developing products.

On the Deputy's second question, the issue really concerns marketing in terms of the attractiveness of supplying an indigenous industry with recyclable material as opposed to selling that material to markets abroad. The downturn in the market abroad will make indigenous industries a little bit more attractive.

On the question on the production of virgin plastic rather than recycled material, there is some indication of a recovery in the markets in respect of certain types of plastic. However, manufacturers will make their decisions in large part based on price and cost in the context of world markets.

Deputy Christy O’Sullivan

If the price of oil is sufficiently low to make the production of virgin plastic attractive, there exists an opportunity for the European Union, for example, to resolve the problem by offering supports to recyclers. By creating more plastic, we are only creating a bigger problem. Perhaps this could be considered at EU level. Can Mr. Mulhall revert to the committee on this when he investigates it?

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

We can certainly do that, in light of whatever proposals the European Commission may bring forward in response to the problem.

Chairman

Mr. Mulhall stated a circular was issued to local authorities to prioritise enforcement activity to deter illegal dumping. Could he send a copy to the committee?

Mr. Ronan Mulhall

Absolutely.

Chairman

We have concluded our question and answer session. I thank all the officials from the Department for helping us at this meeting, which is one of a series on this topic.

The joint committee adjourned at 4.50 p.m. until 3.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 3 February 2009.