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Joint Committee on Transport and Communications debate -
Wednesday, 24 Apr 2024

Issues Relating to Road Safety: Road Safety Authority

The purpose of today's meeting is to meet with the Road Safety Authority, RSA, to discuss issues relating to road safety. I am pleased to welcome on behalf of the committee Mr. Sam Waide, chief executive officer, Mr. Brendan Walsh, chief operations officer, Mr. Michael Rowland, director of research, standards and assurance, Ms Nessa Kelly, director of strategy, performance and transformation, and Ms Sarah O’Connor, director of partnerships and external affairs.

I will read a note on privilege. Witnesses are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice that they should not criticise or make charges against any person or entity by name or in such a way as to make him, her or it identifiable or otherwise engage in speech that might be regarded as damaging to the good name of the person or entity. Therefore, if their statements are potentially defamatory in relation to an identifiable person or entity, they will be directed to discontinue their remarks. It is imperative that they comply with any such direction.

Members are reminded of the long-standing parliamentary practice to the effect that they should not comment on, criticise or make charges against a person outside the Houses or an official either by name or in such a way as to make him or her identifiable. I remind members of the constitutional requirement that they must be physically present within the Leinster House complex in order to participate in public meetings. I will not be able to permit any member to participate where they are not adhering to this constitutional requirement. Therefore, any member who attempts to participate from outside of the precincts will be asked to leave the meeting. In this regard, I ask any members participating via MS Teams to confirm, prior to making their contribution to the meeting, that they are on the grounds of the Leinster House campus.

This is a very important topic, which we have discussed previously. It is a matter of the utmost concern and importance to the nation as a whole but particularly to this committee, which is tasked with looking at transport matters. We are very glad that Mr. Waide has been able to make time in his very busy schedule to be here to outline his concerns. We will have a discussion after his opening statement.

Mr. Sam Waide

I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach. Good afternoon everyone. I express our thanks to the committee for the opportunity to speak to it on Ireland's recent road safety trends. We are deeply saddened to acknowledge the tragic loss of life on Ireland’s roads in 2023, to date in 2024 and previous to that. I extend my condolences to the bereaved families throughout the country, in addition to those with serious injuries, which are life-altering for both the individuals and their families.

We last spoke to the committee in September 2023. We have now analysed collision data for that full year and I would like to first outline key statistics from 2023. I will then discuss some of the emerging trends we have seen in 2024. A total of 185 people were killed and 1,438 were seriously injured on Irish roads in 2023. During this year, the monthly fatalities average was higher than in any of the previous six years, at 15 deaths per month. In 2023 there were higher numbers of young lives lost than in any of the previous five years. Tragically, we lost 12 children under the age of 16, and 48 teenagers and young adults aged between 16 and 25 years died on our roads. Some 47% of road deaths occurred late at night or in the early hours of the morning. This is an increase compared with 2022. Of those, 48% occurred during the weekend. Regarding location, rural roads with a speed limit of 80 km/h or more accounted for almost seven in ten of all deaths in 2023.

In a recent European Commission publication, Ireland was ranked in sixth place among the EU member states for deaths per million population for 2023, having been placed third the previous year. Unfortunately, similar patterns in road user deaths in 2023 have continued into 2024. Provisional analysis of collision data from 1 January to 21 April has indicated further fatality increases. The number of deaths that have occurred on our roads this year to date is 64 and the two additional deaths as of this morning takes that to 66. While the monthly average for fatalities last year was 15, this is at 19 deaths per month for this year. It is also important to acknowledge that more than 300 people have been seriously injured in road traffic collisions.

While it is not yet possible for An Garda Síochána to confirm the primary contributing factors to fatal collisions in 2024, our data shows 25% of fatalities occurred between 4 p.m. and 8 p.m., while 36% occurred late at night or in the early morning. Research suggests these periods present greater risks in terms of driver behaviours like drink-driving, taking drugs and driving, and fatigue. International research and our data shows dangerous driver behaviours, including speeding, intoxicated, distracted or fatigued driving, and the non-wearing of seatbelts, are key contributory factors to road deaths. Global leaders at the Transport Research Arena last week in Dublin confirmed Ireland is not alone in facing road safety challenges. Few EU member states are currently on track to meet the target of halving the number of road deaths by 2030, as per a recent EU audit. A 1% overall decline in road deaths among the EU 27 was achieved between 2022 and 2023. During the conference, international experts emphasised that road safety requires funding and political support, critical to saving lives. They also acknowledged the essential role of education, technology, engineering and enforcement in improving safety on the roads, with many experts highlighting increases in dangerous road user behaviours post pandemic. In line with this, I would now like to outline some of the key road safety initiatives needed to improve road safety in Ireland, and those being progressed.

The RSA’s communications focus for 2024 is speed, distracted driving, drink-driving and vulnerable road users, which includes cyclists, older pedestrians and e-scooters. I will set out some initiatives since our previous committee appearance. From late 2023 to early 2024, we developed a campaign with messages around dangerous road behaviours that targeted young people, especially males. The campaign included night-time radio and digital audio, digital channels and geo-targeting and budget upweighting in counties where there were increased road fatalities. Historical hard-hitting adverts were rerun, including Siobhan and Gillian’s "Crashed Lives" adverts in the run-up to Christmas last year. There was the "Anatomy of a Split Second" mobile phone distraction advert run in January, and our chairperson, Liz O’Donnell’s, leadership message ran from November 2023. In that month and in March, the RSA aired a 30 km/h campaign on how reduction in urban speed potentially saves pedestrian and cyclist lives, especially those of children, and reduces serious injuries among these vulnerable road users, which predominately take place in urban areas.

Vision Zero’s aim is to eliminate all road deaths and serious injuries on Irish roads by the year 2050. The RSA ran a campaign over six months with three distinct phases to generate public buy-in to this national effort. The RSA also ran a brand-new radio and digital campaign called "Say it" with stations across the country. That was an appeal to call out poor behaviour with friends, colleagues and family. We are currently running a hard-hitting campaign with Imogen Cotter outlining her experience of serious injuries and asking motorists to slow down and pass wide of vulnerable road users. Imogen Cotter is a cyclist who was the victim of a road traffic collision and a serious injury that changed her life.

The recent announcement of approval for the RSA to invest a further €3 million of our reserve funds to increase awareness and education programmes means we have already upweighted campaigns such as the Imogen Cotter piece in addition to targeting speeding on rural roads, drink-driving and driving under the influence of drugs, and the consequences of becoming a disqualified driver. The RSA will hold its first ever youth representative forum next week to support young participants on their road safety priorities and to help young people. We thank the Department of children, the Ombudsman for Children and many youth organisations for their support in this. In May, the RSA will air its new e-scooters TV-led campaign, which will help all road users to understand how they can share the roads safely with e-scooter users while also helping new and prospective e-scooter users to understand which rules of the road apply to them. The RSA has undertaken an audit of its existing education services and interventions and is developing a plan going forward to reach communities with impact and continuity. As an immediate step we are updating the existing teacher-led transition year programme, for roll-out from September, and working closely with the Departments of Education and Transport and other voluntary road safety educators. We are also to roll out a pilot programme for festivals and colleges, targeting the 18-23 age group and using the 360° rollover simulator.

Regarding further speed-related actions, speeding both increases the likelihood of road traffic collisions occurring and the severity of injury sustained should a crash occur. The Department of Transport is leading on the implementation of the recommendations of the speed limit review. TII has commenced the development of Ireland’s first-ever national strategy for road safety cameras. Three sites have been identified for the introduction of average-speed cameras and an additional nine sites are being considered.

As for actions on legislation, the Road Traffic Act 2024 was enacted on 12 April. This new legislation will initiate the process of co-ordinated speed limit reviews being conducted by the local authorities, delivering safer default limits. It will also facilitate the administration of multiple sets of penalty points where multiple traffic offences are being engaged in at any point in time. In addition, it will make drug testing mandatory in the same circumstances where alcohol testing has been mandatory to date.

On enforcement-related actions, research clearly demonstrates that greater levels of high-visibility enforcement will reduce dangerous driving behaviours and collisions on our roads, and we urge sufficient resources for dedicated policing of our roads. We welcome the implementation of the Garda's 30 minutes of high-visibility policing proposal.

I move to data sharing for road safety. I wish to discuss the priority activity which is being progressed regarding the sharing of road traffic collision data. This work has progressed in collaboration with other agencies, with oversight from the partnership board for road safety. The purpose is to ensure sufficient legislation is in place to safeguard the continued sharing of detailed collision data. The Department of Transport has also engaged with the Attorney General’s office on this subject.

While solutions were being investigated and progressed, the RSA shared key variables from the road traffic collision data set, which has continued to support local authorities in their evidence-led decision-making. As has always been the case, local authorities receive data on high-collision locations for the national road network from Transport Infrastructure Ireland. I confirm that collision data provided to the Department of Transport is being centrally analysed. From this analysis, I am informed that "locations of interest" are notified to each local authority by the Department of Transport. The Department invites applications from local authorities for low-cost safety schemes. My understanding is that in 2023 55 locations of interest safety schemes were applied for and funded and in 2024 60 locations of interest safety schemes were applied for and are being funded and implemented in this financial year. In the coming weeks, the RSA and others, including An Garda Síochána and the Department, will work together with the preparation of the necessary submission to the Data Protection Commissioner as part of the process of legislating. I have included greater details on this work in our submission, and my colleagues will be happy to answer any questions on this matter.

With regard to updates on the main services the RSA delivers, that is, national car testing and driver testing services, during our visits to the committee, the performance of the NCT has been a topic of discussion. As committed, the service returned to within the service level agreement during the month of December. The booking lead time at the end of March was 15 days, as against the SLA of 12 days. In addition, the number of customers on the priority waiting list has decreased from a high of 65,000 in February of last year to 4,000 at the end of March of this year. The RSA is engaged with Applus to improve the customer experience, ensuring sufficient testing capacity, an improved NCT website, a local training and education programme and the identification of new testing techniques to improve operational efficiency for the remainder of the contract term. This committee previously engaged with me and my colleagues on the suitability of the NCT contract and the term. I can confirm that an independent review of the contract and the terms of same has taken place and they have been deemed appropriate for the nature of the contract. My colleague, Mr. Brendan Walsh, would be happy to take any questions on this matter.

With regard to the driver testing service, I can confirm that the number of learner drivers available, eligible and waiting for an invitation to book their driving tests is 60,385, down from 71,932 in September 2023. That is a decrease of 16%. At the end of August of last year, the waiting time for a driver test was 30.4 weeks. Additional driver testers, new scheduling technology and the commitment to deliver additional tests through overtime have resulted in a reduction in the waiting time to 15.6 weeks as of the end of March of this year. As committed to the transport committee, the service will be back to its normal SLA by the summer of 2024.

In summary, we are deeply concerned about the high number of people who have died or been seriously injured on our roads to date this year and last year and the related trends. We must reverse these trends together. Immediate, collective action from all relevant agencies, with a cross-government approach, including key road safety stakeholders and communities, is required to achieve this. We are particularly grateful that our chair and I were able to meet An Taoiseach, Simon Harris, last week to progress these items. It is critical that road safety remains a priority investment for the Government and that increased levels of awareness, education, engineering and enforcement are implemented. Phase 2 of the Government's road safety strategy will be developed over the coming months to ensure that effective priorities help to reduce fatalities and serious injuries beyond this year. That concludes my opening statement to the committee on requested matters.

I thank my dedicated RSA staff across the organisation, who have worked incredibly hard during and after the pandemic, delivering services to improve safety on our roads. I am joined by my colleagues, Mr. Brendan Walsh, Mr. Michael Rowland, Ms Sarah O'Connor and Ms Nessa Kelly. We are happy to take questions members may have about our submission, my opening statement or any other matters pertaining to road safety.

Thank you, Mr. Waide. I will take the first slot on behalf of Senator Dooley.

We are all discussing this. It is clearly a very significant topic for this committee and for everybody in Ireland. The new Taoiseach has put a renewed focus on it in meeting you, Mr. Waide, and your chairperson within his first week in office, as you alluded to. What does the RSA need from us? You have outlined the challenges and the statistics. What else does the RSA need from the Oireachtas and the Government? The RSA is more than an advocacy body; it is the State body responsible for road safety. Yet it cannot go out on the roads with speed cameras. That is not its job. It cannot install red light cameras. That is not its job. Where are the blockages? If the RSA could do anything it wanted as regards additional road safety measures, what would it do?

Mr. Sam Waide

I will answer that question at a high level while referring to particular areas. I ask the elected representatives on this committee to encourage not only their communities and their neighbouring communities but also employers within those communities to consider getting more involved in road safety and to work in that collective effort. The second area is for the committee to support any legislation coming forward on policies to optimise the use of technology to reduce killer behaviours across the country. The third area is to support sustainable funding for road safety in Ireland, not just the RSA: research, campaigns, education, enforcement and engineering, including the rural road network. I look forward to getting into more detail but, at a high level, those are three key areas that we as an organisation, leading a number of road safety initiatives, set out.

Our time is limited today. I could probably talk for an hour, as I am sure many of the other members could, if we had the time, which we do not. I will just zone in on a couple of things you mentioned. You have referred to late nights, weekends, rural areas and young people. In the other document the RSA sent us, the additional briefing information, it points out the counties most affected. Tipperary was number one last year. Cork, Dublin, Galway and Mayo were the others. Some of them, such as Dublin and Cork, have higher populations. There are large networks in places such as Tipperary and Mayo.

The causes of fatalities is a very sensitive topic, but we need to know the percentages involved globally. I know it is more than one thing. Alcohol can be a factor, but speeding is also a factor. Wet conditions late at night, snow or ice can be a factor. What are the main factors in the fatalities? Is it more speed than drugs? Is it more drugs than alcohol? What are the causes of fatalities and significant and life-changing injuries?

Mr. Sam Waide

What has changed? The trends in respect of serious injuries and road fatalities have been going the wrong way for us all. What has changed between the time before the pandemic and 2024? There are two particular areas. First, there is a higher risk of fatalities in this country today compared with pre-Covid. The population of the country has increased. My colleague, Mr. Brendan Walsh, can elaborate if the committee would like. The number of cars has increased by almost 19% or 20%. There is an unprecedented number of people with driver licences. First, therefore, the risk of having a road traffic collision has increased in the past four or five years.

The numbers overall are up, but there are particular factors still.

Mr. Sam Waide

Our most recent research last year and this year shows that the second area is a deterioration of behaviours on our roads. Our studies indicated poor behaviours: drink driving, its social acceptability, taking drugs and driving, speeding and using a mobile phone while driving. The most recent research, an independent study, shared just last month indicated that deterioration of behaviours.

You might ask why but the psychologists still have not got to the bottom of why behaviour has changed.

I do not want to cut across Mr. Waide but I am conscious of time. All those points are very valid. It is very obvious that the volume has increased. The number of cars has increased and since the pandemic, the volume of traffic has increased a lot but I am talking about the 185 fatalities of last year. The coroner and An Garda Síochána have investigated these particular fatalities. What did they identify as the main cause? Was it speeding, drugs or alcohol? Was it a combination? What historical data has identified particular things? What did it show? I attended the road safety conference and it was very good. We know about psychology and that people are breaking red lights and are generally more casual than they might have been historically. Perhaps it is due to a lack of enforcement. We can see the Garda numbers in roads and policing are down 40%. That is in the RSA briefing document. Of the 185 deaths, what caused them?

Mr. Sam Waide

Let me elaborate. One of the predominant contributing factors is speed but there are the other three killer behaviours. Speeding is a killer behaviour but there is also drink driving, taking drugs while driving and distracted driving, including the use of mobile phones. Killer behaviours all sit at the heart of the predominant factors for road traffic collisions. It is the occurrence of those killer behaviours that are at the heart of it. My condolences go out to families who have lost loved ones. Not wearing seatbelts is another factor. I have mentioned this to the committee before.

What are the statistics on that?

Mr. Sam Waide

I will revert to my colleague on the percentage of non-seatbelt wearing.

Mr. Michael Rowland

Seatbelt wearing has deteriorated. Our observational surveys showed 23% of drivers and 21% of passengers not wearing their seatbelts. One quarter of the people killed on our roads last year were not wearing a seatbelt.

Including drivers.

Mr. Michael Rowland

Including drivers, yes. The Leas-Chathaoirleach asked about the causes of the fatal accidents. Coronial data takes some time and he mentioned historical data. Looking at the long-term international research, and it is the same in Ireland, as Mr. Waide said, it is speeding, drink driving, drug driving, using mobile phones, non-wearing of seatbelts and driving while fatigued. In more recent research which we did, from a range of studies including self-reports, observational surveys and quantitative research, regarding speeding one in two drivers exceeds 30 km/h, 50 km/h and 60 km/h speed limits in our free speed surveys which we conducted in 2023. Self-reporting speeding behaviours and the acceptability of speeding has been consistently high since 2020 and has yet to return to pre-Covid levels. On drink driving, an average of one in ten drivers has reported driving after drinking any alcohol in the last 12 months. These surveys also indicated higher levels of social acceptability of drink driving in recent years, which is a worrying trend for us. I mentioned seatbelts. On fatigue, it is 20%-----

Sorry, fatigue surprised me. So 20% of people said they have fallen asleep at the wheel.

Mr. Michael Rowland

One in five motorists reported falling asleep or nodding off while driving.

It is one in five. It is not all the time but they have admitted doing it on an occasion.

Mr. Michael Rowland

Yes, absolutely. There are high levels of mobile phone use, which Mr. Waide mentioned. One in ten report talking on a hand-held phone. More importantly, our research has indicated that approximately one in five motorists check their phones while driving. Obviously, that is of huge concern to us. The World Health Organization states that a driver is four times more likely to be involved in a collision while using a mobile phone.

The most recent research was done by Dr. Kiran Sarma in the University of Galway. He looked at mobile phone use and made a number of observations. One is that people perceive it as low risk and that they are capable of using their mobile phone and there are unconscious processes. They have a dependence on the use of the mobile phone. He noted that experts had highlighted the importance of detection and enforcement to reduce driver mobile phone use. He suggested some potential technological solutions. Our colleagues in Australia are looking at that at the moment too.

I could go on and on but I want to allow other members of the committee in too. Hopefully we will get a second round in before we are finished. I want to thank everyone for all they are doing. I hope people are watching. We will all do our best to communicate to our communities and the people we know the significant risk factors. There was a reference in Mr. Waide’s briefing document to the cost of a fatality. You can never bring back the person but, in financial costs, it is something like €3.6 million. We want those people to be alive. We want those families to have their loved ones for all their natural lives but equally there is a big cost every time this happens. That money could be used much more wisely in other ways. It is really sad. Any road death is one too many.

Mr. Sam Waide

When I meet families who have lost loved ones, their one ask is to do as much as possible as a society so that other families cannot go through that loss.

Before I call Deputy Smith, I want to commend the TY programme being rolled out. I am the chair of the board of Ardscoil Rís in Limerick, which was featured on "Today with Claire Byrne" some weeks ago. It is really impactful. I remember going to the access road shows in the Royal Marine Hotel in Dún Laoghaire where there were people in floods of tears. You do not want to upset people but if it means people are more careful driving, that is a level of upset that I would prefer people to have than to go to someone’s funeral or go to Rochestown Avenue to see people with life-changing injuries. I thank the RSA for all it is doing and ask that it engage with us as much as it feels it needs to. I believe all of the committee and, indeed, the wider Oireachtas want to support it in everything it is doing.

I thank everyone for coming in today. There was more detail on data sharing on road safety in the material that came with the opening statement but I will ask this for the benefit of those watching. The opening statement referred to data sharing taking place in some form. The locations of interest and local authorities can apply under a location of interest safety scheme and 55 did last year. There are 60 schemes this year. In the coming weeks, the RSA will be working with other agencies, including An Garda Síochána, on a submission to the Data Protection Commissioner, DPC, regarding legislation. What is the gap between what is happening on data sharing now and what is needed in legislation?

Mr. Sam Waide

I thank the Deputy for the question. To reiterate on the public record, the RSA has been sharing data. We have been sharing key variables which helps decisions to be made. On the specific question on the gap and what we need to do to legislate - we will need to legislate, and I know the Taoiseach and the Ministers support this - we need to ensure the data is being shared in a legal way so that it does not infringe on any GDPR matters. People might not appreciate there is quite sensitive information around collision data, in particular. In the coming weeks, we will make that submission to the DPC with the Department of Transport. I will pass over Ms Kelly who has been leading that work on behalf of a multi-subject matter group from all the agencies.

Is the data being shared being shared on a sound legal footing?

Mr. Sam Waide

It is the key variables. There are eight in total but to answer the question, yes.

Ms Nessa Kelly

I thank the Deputy for the opportunity to clarify the situation on data sharing. I know there has been a lot of discussion around it in recent weeks. To echo what Mr. Waide said, and to reassure members of the committee, data sharing is taking place. Those eight key variables are providing critical data to ensure that the investment in our roads is evidence- and data-led.

On the pathway forward, we have a solid plan in place and are proactively working with all the stakeholders involved to regularise the situation and make sure that we can resume sharing the wider data set. At present, as Mr. Waide referenced, we have eight key fields that are being shared. That includes the time and date of the collision, the road type and other factors needed by local authorities to make decisions. Going forward, we want to get to a sharing of the wider data set of up to 60 data fields.

Activities are under way as part of our plan and proposal. First and foremost, in the context of the GDPR and data protection legislation, we had to look at the rationale, necessity and proportionality of the data being shared. As Mr. Waide referenced, we came to the conclusion that a great deal of personal and special category data are included in the data set. Under data protection laws, we needed to ensure we had a sound legal basis for receiving that data, processing it and onward sharing it. That is where we identified the gap. For the plan we are putting in place around that, we reviewed each of the data fields we want to receive and that we need to share. We have examined and are now confident about the proportionality and the legal basis we will put forward for the sharing of that data. We have been working with all the stakeholders, including the Department of Transport and local authorities, through the Local Government Management Agency, LGMA, and the Road Management Office, RMO, to make sure we have identified what legislative vehicles we will use to drive those changes and the amendments to the legislation.

Since we have to change legislation and it is around personal data, we have to engage with the Data Protection Commission, DPC, on those changes. We are currently putting together an engagement pack for the DPC and are working closely with the Department and other stakeholders to progress that. The plan is to have that pack in place by the end of May. It will deal with all the concerns previously raised by the data protection officer, DPO, and demonstrate the activity that has been undertaken to ensure that data is being lawfully shared.

I welcome the comments from the Taoiseach and the Minister of State on their support for the legislative change and expediting its delivery over the coming months.

Am I out of time?

I was going to give the Deputy a little extra. I will bring everybody back in for a second round. I will also bring in Senator Garvey after committee members have been dealt with.

I thank our guests for their statement. Following on from some of the detail in that, our focus is on the number of people who have been killed on the roads, the huge number of collisions and the tragedies for families and communities throughout the country.

It was mentioned that speed is the big factor. We see that ourselves, as does everyone who travels the roads. Speeding happens, sometimes, because people are intoxicated or drugs are involved or whatever else. There is also erratic and reckless behaviour. We have all driven the road where somebody comes up behind us very fast, brakes hard, swings out, possibly on a corner, and passes three cars in a row. We see this on country roads, not just on motorways, and that is where many of our accidents are happening.

Two things struck me in respect of the earlier comments. One is the issue of distracted driving. The use of mobile phones is key to that. I spoke to one person who is a truck driver. As he is seated up high, he sees people in cars. He regularly sees people driving with their knees on the steering wheel while sending text messages. They are not even using their hands on the steering wheel. He said he sees this not just the odd time but regularly. He spoke to me about a particular woman going to work who was putting on her make-up while driving. People seem to have this notion that they can live a separate life and that driving is only an accidental thing they are doing, when it actually requires their full attention.

I am particularly interested in the mobile phone aspect. Is there technology that can be put in place? We all use our mobile phones at times when driving if we have hands-free kits. The phone rings, you push the button on the dashboard and you speak, but you are still concentrating while driving. We see people with their phones up to their ears, looking at their phones while driving and all of that. Is there any technology that can be easily applied to ensure that people cannot do that and we can cut that out? That is one question.

The second issue I will ask about relates to younger drivers. I am also very conscious that many of the people who are killed or seriously injured are younger drivers. I have young people in my family. I have four children, the youngest of whom is 20 years of age. All of them have driven. I know that one of them, when he was driving, had to get insurance and a box put into the car, which monitored his driving. He is the oldest in the house. He had that for the first year he drove and it made him a better driver. It meant he could not act erratically, could not speed and could not pull handbrake turns as some of his buddies were doing. They were doing that while driving their mothers' cars on their mothers' insurance. My son was shocked by it, but he could not do the same because this box was in place. His insurance was still expensive but it made him a better driver. I wonder whether, in co-operation with the insurance industry, more could be done in that respect.

Mr. Sam Waide

I thank the Deputy. Both questions link back to my ask to the committee in terms of legislation. On mobile phone use, average speed cameras will be rolled out in Ireland this year at a minimum of 12 locations. Other EU member states use technology to detect people using their mobile phones. It is written into their laws. The Civil Guard in Spain uses that technology very effectively. Our neighbours across the water in the UK are trialling camera technology that uses cameras not just for speeding, but for not wearing a seat belt and using their mobile phone while driving. I previously raised with the committee that the RSA completely and absolutely supports that technology and its implementation in Ireland. If legislative changes are required, and my understanding is there are, although An Garda Síochána and the Department of Justice are probably better placed to answer that, the RSA's view is that we should accelerate the technology that detects mobile phone use. Such use is at levels our surveys have picked up on, but they have probably not quantified the sheer scale of that poor behaviour, which is killer behaviour.

The Deputy's second question was on technology and insurance companies. The RSA has worked with various insurance companies on different initiatives. That was not in my submission because, literally in the past few days, and I welcome the approach, an insurance company asked, suggested and promoted the black-box technology the Deputy referred to. It is sporadic throughout the country. Some insurance companies use it and some do not. My understanding is that those in the insurance sector are willing to come together. They are asking, if the insurance sector were to cover the cost of the black box, and there was no cost to new young drivers, whether the country will mandate that anyone who is a new driver be mandated for the first two years of his or her driving experience to have one of those black boxes in the vehicle. That approach is very recent. It is something I need to discuss with agencies around the table, but it is to be hoped we can bring it to a point where the committee is supportive of that proposal. That same insurance company said that the data and stats it has on the people they insure indicate the highest probability of its customers having a collision is in the first couple of years of their driving experience. Some people may say that is obvious but that is in the data. It is one data set, but the data does not lie. I welcome the support for that particular solution.

I recognise in a positive way that insurance company coming forward. What we need is more scaling-up of employers and insurance providers throughout the whole country to step forward and help collectively to address these trends.

In addition to that, and this again comes back to young drivers, I understand the RSA is currently looking at the training of young drivers and the syllabus that is there.

I recently met the Professional Driving Instructors Association. The syllabus has been the same for approximately the past decade. It needs to be reviewed and work needs to be done on it. Is there any consideration of, for instance, the number of mandatory lessons that young people take? It is currently 12. How does that operate? Has it been reviewed? I do not want to be prescriptive about it but should we consider having young drivers do a number of additional lessons, perhaps after the first year of driving, to ensure that any bad habits they may have developed in their first year are corrected? We should deal with issues like that where we can intervene in time. As we see from the data, an awful lot of the people involved in collisions are younger drivers. I am not saying they are causing all the collisions; that is not the case or we cannot say that definitively. However, when they are involved in more of the collisions, it indicates there may be issues that need to be dealt with. I would like to get information on that.

It is proposed to upgrade and change the syllabus because motorway driving is not currently part of the driving test or lessons. We did not have motorways 30 years ago but we have many of them now.

Mr. Sam Waide

I will answer the question on the curriculum. The review of the driving test curriculum, which is significant in the different aspects of it – my colleague will go into those in more detail – is a ministerial priority. It cannot be implemented in a quick manner because the test involves approved driving instructors, ADIs, and it is a collective co-design to enhance the process and content of the curriculum. I will bring in my colleague, Mr. Brendan Walsh, who can expand on what could be done and answer the Deputy’s question in totality.

Mr. Brendan Walsh

We are at the early stages of looking at how we can change our learning structure within driving education as well as the driving test. Mr. Rowland and I, and our teams, have commenced work on that. Regarding the essential driver training, EDT, the Leas-Chathaoirleach is correct that there is nothing today on motorways, so that is something we think we need to consider. Does that mean we need to add more EDTs? Maybe not. It just means we need to change the existing ones to bring certain elements in. We have already commenced reviewing what is done in other countries. My chief driving tester and I were recently at a conference of the International Commission for Driving Testing, CIECA, which is the governing body for licensing authorities around the world. We looked at what technology is available and how the issues countries across the world had in respect of educating drivers and the driving test were dealt with. We have a high-level plan on paper now. We are looking at what our objective is and the target structure we want to focus on. We want to focus on increasing education, providing the young or new driver with as much training as we can that is applicable for the roads they are driving on today and the vehicles they are driving against. We have started that process. We will be working with our chair and the Department of Transport on how we can bring that to life over the next couple months. We highlighted many activities that we would like to discuss. We need to engage with the ADI sector. There are 2,500 SMEs operating in that area. We want to engage with the public and young drivers in school, even in transition year. I believe that good behaviour does not just start when people decide they want to be a driver. Rather, it has to start when people start using the road, and that can be from age nine or ten. We want to look at all those elements. Mr. Rowland may wish to add to that.

Mr. Michael Rowland

Regarding the specific question on the EDT lessons, the Deputy is right that there are 12 compulsory lessons. Our advice has always been that in between each compulsory lesson, learners should either be working with their sponsor or their approved driving instructor. For each compulsory lesson learners have, they should have a further three lessons. In essence, we recommend 48 lessons rather than the 12 EDT lessons.

That never happens in reality.

Mr. Michael Rowland

Young people who are learning how to drive do work with their parents, and the ADIs will prepare parents to fulfil that sponsorship role. It is something we are looking at. When compared with the number of compulsory lessons in the rest of Europe, we are probably in the middle. It is ten in Spain, 16 in Portugal and 30 in Belgium. We will look at that as part of the review Mr. Walsh referenced. In the meantime, we are always at pains to say that it is not just 12 EDT lessons; learners have to do more to reach the standard to pass the test.

Without wishing to be critical but the committee has discussed a number of issues that need to be examined. The question that families of people who have been seriously injured or, unfortunately, lost their lives in tragic accidents would ask the Road Safety Authority is why we are talking about these things now and why they have not been done before this. We need to get a grip of the sense of urgency required around this. Too many people are tragically losing their lives on the road.

Mr. Sam Waide

At the start of this year, it was deemed as a ministerial priority. The RSA has stated a number of times the need to fund the review of this action and bring it forward. It has been a considerable number of years since the driving test was reviewed. It was a different environment 20 or 30 years ago. It is now a very different environment with regard to road users. At the heart of this, we are here to help people learn to drive. I absolutely concur that we need to ensure that it happens sooner rather than later and that we progress it. It is not just young drivers; there are people who learn to drive later in life. We want to help people learn to drive and be safer drivers when they pass their test.

I will pick up on a couple of points and I apologise for going over some old ground. Population increase, the increased number of cars and increased risk were mentioned. Do the witnesses have the figures of the numbers on the road now or the increase over recent years? Perhaps Mr. Walsh has them.

Mr. Brendan Walsh

I do not have those figures to hand but, from our perspective, we would look at the NCT and how that has increased. Since 2021 – 2020 was an exceptional year with low numbers – we have seen an increase of 15% in the number of vehicles requiring an NCT test. We take that as reflective of the national average. I will not give the Deputy the number.

It is an indicator.

Mr. Brendan Walsh

It is a broad indicator. I had the number. I was looking at it yesterday but I do not have it in front of me. It is broadly in and around 15%. In addition, in our NDLS service, we are currently renewing on average about 900,000 licences per year where previously we were renewing around 650,000 licences a year. Again, we see that coming through in the demand. We forecast this year that we will put approximately 250,000 drivers through the driving test. In 2019, the figure was 167,000. There is no backlog. This is just the new norm, as I think I said previously in this committee. We have an increased number of drivers, an increased number of vehicles and also an increased number of commercial vehicles operating because the economy is doing well. We have a vibrant export business. We see that coming through in the requests we receive for C and D licences. We also see the number of people who are coming in from abroad and need to have a licence. We see all of these things and they are all factors that are driving the increase.

Another issue is deteriorating behaviour. I am sorry if I missed it, but is there any indication of what has changed? Has there been any behavioural analysis? We all presume, and there is probably a fair amount of evidence for that, that the less enforcement there is, such as fewer speed checks, the less likelihood there is of getting caught. There is, therefore, a certain freedom. Is something else going on with regard to increasing speed and increasing use of drink and drugs?

I understand that the number of crashes in which seat belts were not being worn was very high. This seems extremely surprising to many people.

Mr. Michael Rowland

There are concerning levels for all of the killer behaviours that we have referenced, in particular with regard to speeding and alcohol. We conduct observational surveys on speeding. In 2023, one in two drivers exceeded the 30 km/h, 50 km/h and 60 km/h speed limits. We ask drivers about their self-reported speeding behaviours and the acceptability of speeding. The level of speeding has been consistently high since 2020. It has yet to return to pre-Covid levels. People are admitting to speeding. Coronial data is always a few years behind because it takes a while for inquests and investigations to take place. With regard to such data, from 2015 to 2019 we found that 26% of drivers, approximately one in four, were exceeding a safe speed in the lead up to the fatal crash.

With regard to drink-driving, in the past 12 months one in ten drivers have reported driving after drinking any alcohol. The surveys also indicate a higher level of social acceptability of drink-driving in recent years, which is a worrying trend. The figure for those who think it is unacceptable has gone from 83% to 73%. People are more likely to drink and drive or to accept such behaviour. One in four drivers believe it is acceptable to drive short distances after having a drink. In addition, in our analysis of coronial data we found that 37% of driver fatalities that occurred between 2015 and 2019 had a positive toxicology for alcohol.

Does the RSA ask why drivers think it is okay, whether they thought it was okay two years ago and whether this position has changed? The immediate question that comes to mind is whether drinking at home has changed this. Has the RSA tried to get to the bottom of this? Are there further indications of where the RSA thinks it would go with this information?

Mr. Michael Rowland

We continue to survey people and analyse the information we get.

Mr. Michael Rowland

The important thing is what we have been doing and what worked in the past. I will make a number of points. Our job is to educate and make people aware. This needs to be consistent. We need a back-to-basics approach. My colleague Ms O'Connor has been working on campaigns to remind people of their vulnerability. We also have a function to make people aware of the rules of the road and the dangers associated with using the road, and to build support for enforcement to occur on the roads. The deterrence theory is that people will not engage in behaviour if there is the perception they could be caught. We need to promote this.

This is something we heard very clearly in repeated sessions from the RSA and from the medical bureau. It is a very strong message. I want to pick up on this point.

People comply when they are watched.

There is a clear message today from the RSA that it urges sufficient resources for dedicated policing of our roads and it welcomes the implementation of the 30 minutes measure. We heard from the GRA at its conference that gardaí think it is public relations. I do not know what term they had for it.

Was it a "gimmick"?

I hear something different from the RSA. Are the witnesses saying they want to see every available opportunity taken whereby the maximum number of Garda resources are available to road policing and that it needs to happen as soon as possible?

Mr. Sam Waide

It is consistent across the board in that we are increasing campaigns and messaging. We are also increasing education. Consistently we need to increase the enforcement of road policing, particularly in this scenario. We need to double up on all of the efforts, including enforcement.

It is not for the RSA or me to tell An Garda Síochána or the Commissioner how to operationalise increased enforcement, whether through Garda numbers or technology. We welcome the proposals. With regard to the particular proposal mentioned, we need to see how it will be implemented. By this, I mean the research and data that are there. We have discussed them today and with other committees. There is information on the days of the week, the hours of the day and weekends. There are known areas of concern. It is about gaining an assurance from An Garda Síochána that the resources are being utilised in the best way to prioritise what the data tells us.

I will finish with a comment. I do not have the full details, but perhaps the RSA can have a look at it in any event. I have seen some criticism online about RSA productions and advice for vulnerable road users regarding the way it is framed. It almost puts the responsibility on them. We know they have a responsibility but the emphasis is on young children making themselves visible.

Or the pedestrian or cyclist.

Exactly. The RSA should look at the emphasis in this.

Mr. Sam Waide

I will ask Ms O'Connor to comment on this area.

Ms Sarah O'Connor

If the only thing we were doing with regard to pedestrians, vulnerable road users and cyclists was asking them to wear high-visability vests I would be sitting here and saying "Mea culpa; we got it wrong". It exists in the broad spectrum of what we do and it is an important measure. With regard to cycle safety, our Imogen Cotter campaign is live at present. It is fixated on getting motorists to slow down and recognise that the cyclist is a person and entitled to road space, and that any collision can materially damage that person's life. Last year we invested a lot of money in our animated cycling advertisement about overtaking at 1.5 m or 1 m. We have run a number of education interventions.

I will speak a little about what Deputy O'Rourke referred to, which is our Simon and Friends programme that is run in creches. I am aware of it as a user as well as it existing in my remit, as my child is of that age. They get booklets and materials. Our national road safety education officers go to crèches and give training to the workers so they can deliver the programme. Mothers and fathers or whomever is at home gets a photocopy. It is age appropriate. The first piece is about holding hands. This is the key message. The next piece builds on this and is about looking left and right. The children also get an item of high-visibility clothing. From our point of view the high-visibility clothing is only one of a spectrum of measures that can support pedestrians and road users.

I ask committee members to understand that we try very hard to be evidence led in this instance. The European Transport Safety Council states pedestrians or cyclists can be seen at 30 m by night if they are not wearing high-visibility clothing while they can be seen at 150 m by night if they are wearing high-visibility clothing. Even though it is one of the measures it is an important one. If we look across the board in urban areas where people cycle and walk we see fatalities or serious injuries. It can save a life or prevent an injury even if it does not work in every instance.

I do not wear high-visibility clothing when I am cycling because it is a fashion statement; I wear it because I do not want someone to hit me. That is the only reason I wear it. It is like cycling helmets. People do not wear helmets because they want to do so. Someone does put a fire escape into a building because they want to have a fire. It is there if something goes wrong. I saw somebody in an accident in a big road race where somebody hit somebody. The helmet was totally split. This person was in big cage for six months but without the helmet they would not be alive.

Ms Sarah O'Connor

I am happy to provide a bit more of the research.

That would be great. I will bring in other speakers but I do want to say with regard to people wearing high-visibility clothing that some people say to me it should be compulsory. I would not make it compulsory but I would say to people that if they want to reduce their chances of being hit they should wear high-visibility clothing. If they want to reduce their chances of having a serious injury to their head, they should wear helmets.

It is not compulsory but it is a good idea. I thank the witnesses.

In the order they arrived in to our committee, I call Senator Garvey and then Deputy Sherlock. Senator Garvey has five minutes.

I thank the witnesses for coming in today. It is great to have them here and to have an opportunity to speak. There have been reports in recent months about the level of road traffic injuries being underestimated, given that analysis was being done on Garda records of collisions only. There have been recent reports that the RSA has completed research from both Garda and hospital records that demonstrates just how much worse the situation is.

I have three questions on that. It has been reported that the RSA completed this research using the combined data of both An Garda Síochána and hospitals because of an EU Commission request which states that both data most be used. Is that true? Second, for anyone involved in road safety, it has been best practice and identified for years that in order to get a more comprehensive picture of road safety injuries, both police and healthcare data should be used. Why did the RSA not compile this data previously? If there were legislative or possible GDPR issues, did the RSA call for that data to be released publicly? Will hospital and police data now be linked in a systematic way, not just for ad hoc research projects but linked and available to transport and healthcare researchers and practitioners?

In my previous role, I worked on modal shift for 12 years with schools all over Clare, Galway and Limerick. I have had some issues with the RSA in the past. I used to have regional meetings with the RSA. The regional officer would not engage with me at all on modal shift and said that it was not in their brief. I have never heard the RSA asking for more improvements to infrastructure for walking and cycling. I know it is working with the Department of Education on road safety courses. While I welcome that - it is very important for driver theory tests - I do not hear the call-out for cycle training for all TYs, as well as driving tests. The cycle training is ad hoc. I had to get involved in developing a new national cycling standard was because there was not one. I do not hear the RSA encouraging students to know about the Leap cards. They are not told about that, and I spend a lot of time telling students about it. They do not know about the options around public transport, including Local Links. That is done on an ad hoc basis as well, unlike the driver theory test.

The witnesses have given evidence here today that the increased number of cars on our roads is contributing to an increase in road deaths and injuries. The witnesses stated that themselves today. Under action 41 of the Government's road safety strategy, the RSA is listed as one of the agencies involved in encouraging modal shift. Could the witnesses let me know exactly what campaigns the RSA is running to engage in modal shift? There is a gaping hole there in the work. It is great that the RSA is encouraging driving but there is a thing now where you go from being driven to driving and for so many reasons, we have to do better than that. If increased car use has caused road fatalities or injuries, all of us need to up our game, including the RSA, in what we are doing to give people other options. I am not saying they are safe everywhere but there is plenty of money now being invested in cycle lanes, pedestrian crossings and footpaths. In the RSA's leaflet it says that nobody under 12 should walk to school independently, period, anywhere. That is not best practice.

I would like to hear from the RSA about something. I know for a fact that-----

Senator Garvey has five minutes, and she has spent nearly four of them. I want to give the witnesses a chance to respond as well.

Yes, I am sorry. The RSA gets funding from the NCT and driving licences. I wonder is that swaying its priorities? It does seem that it is all about driving, and not just about other modes of transport.

Mr. Sam Waide

We will deal with the collision data and the hospital data first. Mr. Rowland can address that, and then I will maybe bring Ms O'Connor in to touch on the education and campaigns piece.

Mr. Michael Rowland

We have two data sets that we work off. The Senator is right; we have commenced working with the HSE in the last two years. Trinity College Dublin and ourselves have a public health researcher looking at the HIPE data that gives us insights into clinical outcomes of serious injuries. The data set from the Garda is distinct, as it looks at what happened, when it occurred, what the elements of the collision were, the time of day, the type of road, etc., whereas the clinical data we get from the hospital explains the type of injury, the prognosis, the outcome and whether that person has been discharged home or discharged to a step-down facility. They are two complementary data sets that we are working off.

The Senator is right again regarding the hospital data in that it is part of an EU Commission directive. The EU came up with a medical definition for serious injuries within the past few years and it is that medical definition that we are working off with the HIPE database in the HSE. Last year, we published data regarding serious injuries in cyclists and we will be doing that likewise for every other road user type as well. They are two distinct data sets. Will they be linked? I would like to think they will be in the future but at the moment we are doing initial work, that is, reporting on the compliance with MAIS3, which is the clinical definition. It has given us very important information to inform outcomes and interventions for people who have been seriously injured.

Ms Sarah O'Connor

I thank the Senator. There are three or four things she has mentioned there, and I will try to get through them quite quickly, if that is okay. I am happy to discuss it with her after the fact.

The first one the Senator mentioned is about cycle safety and cycle training in schools. We are entirely in support of that. With the Department, we actually co-fund Cycle Right, for it to provide cycle safety in schools.

I know that, yes. It is not in every school in the way the driver theory test is.

Ms Sarah O'Connor

No, it is not. It is not in every school-----

That is my point.

Ms Sarah O'Connor

-----and we would be very keen for that to be expanded. We have been talking to Cycle Right about the possibility of expansion.

It is not just about them cycling. If you drive a car, you are not aware of what it is like to be a cyclist-----

Ms Sarah O'Connor

No.

-----whereas if you cycle a bike, you behave much differently as the driver of a car. Personally, I think you should have to do cycle training to get a driving licence.

Ms Sarah O'Connor

That is one of the things that Mr. Walsh and I will end up having conversations about, with regard to what training is needed in the future to be a driver-----

I can tell Ms O'Connor.

Ms Sarah O'Connor

-----and something that conveys that 360-degree experience of what it is like to have a very close encounter with a heavy goods vehicle or with a car is a really essential piece for people to understand why giving a wide berth while cycling is actually really important. That is something we can explore.

On Cycle Right, I know it is very keen to expand as it can. It is probably at a slower place than it wants with respect to getting the cycling facilitators and tutors in place. It is quite fixated about fifth and sixth class in primary school at the moment but the equivalent part of its programme is to roll out a cycling programme for transition year. We met the Garda yesterday to see if there is something it can do to plug that gap, and it is something we can explore.

On the Senator's point about modal shift, we have a new communications strategy. It has been agreed with the Department, with our own board and the road safety transformation board. Within that, we will probably restrict it to focusing on what we believe were the absolute top priority pieces regarding road safety because the Department has really extensive remit on modal shift and promotion. It ran a really fantastic campaign last year called Your Journey Counts. I know it will be rerunning it this year, and has taken that on. The NTA is doing really extensive promotion of Local Link services, for example. That falls within its remit and it is also doing pieces around safe routes to school. We have been quite careful to divvy that up and to work on what we think are the really important pieces. We play an important role within that but in going back to the Department, we wanted clarity to say that these are the pieces we believe are causative factors with regard to serious injuries and fatalities and modal shift is a bigger overarching piece of work. In order for us to make sure we are doing a good job on that piece, we thought it was worth delineating that and that the Department was taking responsibility for modal shift. I think that has been largely agreed with the Department.

I do not disagree with the Senator. It is a really important piece of the puzzle. Every time we move people out of the car and into the bus, to cycling or to walking, that makes it a safer environment across the board.

Action 41 says that the RSA has part of the responsibility for the modal shift. It is not just the RSA's job to talk about driving but under action 41, it is also its job to promote other things. If the RSA is getting driver theory tests into every school, please get the cycle training, the Leap cards and the use of public transport in. It is part of the RSA's responsibility under action 41.

Ms Sarah O'Connor

Sure.

This is the whole thing. I said to the RSA 15 years ago that it needed to broaden its scope. Increased car use is causing fatalities and injuries. The RSA is practically encouraging everybody to drive but not encouraging everybody to cycle or use public transport.

I thank the Senator.

Ms Sarah O'Connor

I can answer that in a sentence, if that is okay.

Ms Sarah O'Connor

The educational programmes we have from infancy onwards, at primary and secondary school level, include how to use the road safely as a vulnerable road user, as well as learning how to drive.

I know the programme.

I thank Senator Garvey. We have a member of our committee next, Deputy Lowry, and then I will bring in Deputy Sherlock.

I will defer to the member.

They are the rules, which I why I was doing it that way.

I have been listening to the discussion, and I have read the witnesses' documentation, and I do not want to go back over what they have already covered here with other members.

How highly does the RSA rate the difficulty we have with accident black spots and the poor condition of roads? Mr. Waide stated that a high percentage of accidents, 48%, occur on rural roads with speed limits of at least 80 km/h. Those roads are in urgent need of upgrade. When we look at all the obvious reasons for road accidents, this one is completely underestimated. What does Mr. Waide think of the necessity for accident black spots to be remedied, with a specific fund made available? How does the RSA get information on black spots? After an accident, what level of co-ordination or co-operation is there between the RSA and local authorities? As another member asked earlier, is that feedback accurate?

We never hear anything about this any more, but what level of inspection is the RSA carrying out in respect of vehicles and their roadworthiness? Is this a contributory factor to accidents? I appreciate there a lot of new cars on the road but there are still a lot of old vehicles, especially lorries and other heavy-duty vehicles. What level of inspections is taking place in respect of them?

Mr. Sam Waide

There were a number of questions there. On the one about rural roads, the Deputy is correct in saying the large majority of fatalities occur on roads with speed limits of 80 km/h and above. I would go further than that, however, and I will bring in my colleague Mr. Rowland, who has some of the details. It is not just roads with speed limits of 80 km/h and above, because we know from our statistics that motorways are, in the main, if used in the appropriate way with the appropriate speed and conditions, relatively safe. It is the single-carriageway roads, the 80 km/h or 100 km/h roads, that present the biggest risk, and we as an authority have always supported the improvement of those roads because, as I said earlier during another part of the conversation, the data does not lie. That is where the highest risk occurs.

Sweden is one of the leading countries in western Europe for road safety and it recognises the risks on single-carriageway roads for pedestrians, motorists, cyclists and motorcyclists. It has introduced engineering solutions, particularly at T-junctions, that are based on chicanes to slow down the traffic. We have all been there coming onto a 100 km/h stretch of road from a T-junction and it can be high risk, especially if there is a lot of traffic. We would ask this committee to support that continued and increased investment particularly for those roads of more than 100 km/h.

For the other questions, I might pass over to Mr. Rowland to comment on some of the statistics.

Mr. Michael Rowland

On black spots, to clarify, we in the Road Safety Authority are not engineers but Transport Infrastructure Ireland, under the European road infrastructure safety management, RISM, directive downloads data from the Garda on collisions that occur. It has high-collision locations, which were formerly known as black spots, and analyses data based on three years of analysis of collision data on the national-road network. Once the HCLs have been identified, the road safety engineers review the data on each collision location. If they determine there is a potential engineering issue, they share the raw data on collisions at that location with the local authority. This analysis is carried out every two years by Transport Infrastructure Ireland and approximately 160 black spots, or high-collision locations, are identified in each round and relate to 1 km stretches of road.

Simultaneously, and this is important, Transport Infrastructure Ireland conducts road safety inspections based on its analysis of primary collision types and the collision data. That inspection involves driving on the route. Its engineers drive on the routes, tag the hazards observed on the route and decide which ones to remove or protect, based on the relative risk of being killed or seriously injured on the road. This is a proactive approach adopted by TII on the national-road network and it shares this analysis with the local authorities as well. I acknowledge that people will say the national-road network constitutes only 5% of the road network, but it carries 48% of the traffic, 30% of cases of those killed or seriously injured occur on those roads and it carries 90% of the freight. TII also provides local authorities with collision data for major road projects and safety schemes on an ad hoc basis. Moreover, where a fatal collision has occurred, there is a form called the LA16, whereby the local roads engineer will go out with the Garda to carry out an assessment of the location and see whether any remedial engineering actions are required.

Whose responsibility is the inspection of vehicles?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

I will take that. We carry out a couple of different inspections. First, we have our own enforcement officers, who are on the road day and night, and in the first quarter of this year, they have carried out more than 4,000 inspections of commercial vehicles in conjunction with An Garda Síochána. They will carry out in the region of 18,000 inspections over the full year and these are inspections where the driver is pulled over to the roadside. Complementing that, we have our CVRT network, which is the network of old DOE test centres, as they were. So far, they have conducted 148,000 tests this year and are on track to top close to 600,000 inspections, which will cover the entire national fleet operating.

The one I am probably most interested in at the moment relates to the NCT. Last year, in the region of 1.6 million vehicles were inspected within the NCT service. Approximately 44,000 of those vehicles were found to have serious or dangerous defects, and of those 44,000, 3,200 were ultimately scrapped by their owner. In regard to inspections of the national fleet, therefore, and maintaining it to an adequate standard, we have the NCT, the CVRT and our roadside enforcement team, so I think we are well covered in that area, but it is an area we are looking to further increase in respect of roadside inspection with the support of An Garda Síochána.

On that figure of 44,000 seriously defective vehicles, what is the follow-up when a defect is detected? With whom does the RSA liaise or who has the authority to take that vehicle off the road?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

We do not have the authority to take the vehicle off the road but the owner is immediately notified by the inspector within the NCT centre that the vehicle should not be driven and that they should make arrangements to bring it to a proper repairer. What often happens, however, is that they will drive it to a repairing agent and we do not have the ability of preventing that or putting a lien on the vehicle, because it is purely an inspection. The information is provided to the customer and it is for the customer to get the vehicle repaired but what will happen is they will not receive an NCT certificate. The majority of people, perhaps 99% of them, would obviously take some information like that about the vehicle they are driving to be very serious and they would seek to have an immediate remedy carried out. As for the 3,200 vehicles that were ultimately destroyed, the vehicle would have been brought to a workshop and deemed an uneconomical repair where the vehicle was too old for the repair that was to be carried out, and that would be a decision for the customer. Fundamentally, if you do not have your vehicle tested, you will be in breach and you are not going to get an NCT certificate unless the vehicle is in a satisfactory and roadworthy condition at the time of presenting for a test or retest.

On the NCT, I think the figures are much better than they were. There is one figure I would like our guests to provide to the committee after the meeting, namely, the number of people who are persistently reminded their NCT is due and who just ignore that and keep driving. It was quite a significant number. I know the RSA cannot tell because there is a two-year rollover, but there are cases where the car is taxed and is possibly insured but it has not had an NCT issued in maybe four, six or seven years.

I would like that figure at some point.

Mr. Brendan Walsh

We will certainly come back to the Leas-Chathaoirleach on that. The NCT was normally the reason why I was in front of this committee. I can say-----

Mr. Walsh has had a much easier time today than he had before.

Mr. Brendan Walsh

I very much have, and I appreciate that. I thank the Leas-Chathaoirleach. It is a testament to the great work that has been done by the team-----

Mr. Brendan Walsh

-----in bringing it back to standard. As of this week, the wait time for an NCT is at its lowest level since Covid. It is at 9.4 days to get an NCT this week. We expect for it to be around 12 to 13 days by the end of the month, which will get us very close to the service level agreement. We have given commitments to the Taoiseach and to this committee in the past. The service has recovered. It is now just a case of the guys getting the job done.

It is much better. Last year, I booked a test for July in February. My test was due in October and I could get one in a week. It has transformed. Credit where credit is due for those involved, including the RSA, Applus and so on.

Mr. Brendan Walsh

I thank the committee for the focus it put on the website the last time we were here. Some 65% of customers who are booking an NCT at the moment do so through the website. That is up from 43% this time last year. Once we made those slots available-----

That was one of my points.

Mr. Brendan Walsh

It was indeed.

I thank the Chair for allowing me in. Mr. Walsh said 44,000 involved dangerous defects.

Mr. Brendan Walsh

Yes.

How many of those vehicles were NCT compliant?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

None. The faults were picked up by the NCT.

They were picked up by the NCT.

Mr. Brendan Walsh

Yes.

I am glad Mr. Walsh made that distinction because if the drivers had NCT certificates and their vehicles were found to be defective, there would be an issue.

Mr. Brendan Walsh

It is during the inspection process.

I am glad Mr. Walsh clarified that. Has the RSA reviewed the criteria that are necessary to pass the NCT. There is an onerous list of such criteria. Does the RSA review that from time to time?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

We do, particularly with the advent of electric vehicles. We have looked at that. The standards that we have today in the NCT are among the highest in Europe, which is something we are very proud of. Our neighbours across the water have a much less onerous test in the MOT than we have here in Ireland.

The answer is "Yes". I am short on time. I appreciate the detail in Mr. Walsh's answer. The point I am coming to is whether, considering that there is a statistical failure rate in every test, the RSA notices a preponderance of certain types of failure. Statistically, are there are occasions when the RSA has noticed that vehicles are failing for certain reasons? Is it mapping that?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

We are. We have all that information. The data lake of information we have for the NCT is immense. I was recently speaking with Microsoft about trying to use its AI technology to start filtering.

The answer is "Yes".

Mr. Brendan Walsh

The answer is "Yes".

What is the most likely cause of failure?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

I do not think that it would come as a surprise to anybody here that it is tyres and lights.

Are tests failed due to dipped beams not being set to the criteria the RSA has set out?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

Is the Deputy referring to the alignment?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

Yes. Light alignment is part of it.

Once the RSA has mapped the failure rate for lack of alignment of dipped headlights, does it map onto that the cost of the retest for the people who, in numerous cases and at particular points in the past number of years, have gone to their local garages, done the pre-NCT, come out the other end and gone back to and said that the vehicle failed because the dipped beams were not correctly set? People have to have retests because their lights are not set correctly. There is no technical fault with the car but the dipped beams are not set to the required standard.

Mr. Brendan Walsh

Absolutely. The reason that is so important is for onward driving. It is not you but the person who is driving towards you, and also to highlight the pedestrian who may be on the inside of the vehicle on the left side.

If one was being cynical about it, could one suggest that this is a nice revenue generator for the NCT?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

From my perspective, in other countries, if your lights are out of alignment, your vehicle would be grounded there and then. In Ireland, we do not do that. We give you the opportunity to take corrective action. Any of us who have driven in France know that, in the past, you used to put the patch over the lens. If you did not have that patch, your car was grounded until you got that patch put on it. Lighting is a very important part of vehicle safety.

I appreciate that. In the short time available, I take the opportunity to commend the RSA on the 30 km/h town campaign. That is the RSA's baby, is it not? Sorry if I am going over old ground. I think it is permeating. I live in the town of Mallow and I represent typical towns like Mallow, Mitchelstown and Fermoy. I am noticing that driver behaviour in this country has gone to pot.

That point has been raised.

Has the RSA a mechanism for mapping the success or otherwise of its campaigns? Is it too early to map the success or lack of success of very public campaigns like the 30 km/h town campaign onto whether or not that is having an impact on driver behaviour?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

I will hand over to my colleague.

Ms Sarah O'Connor

It is an interesting campaign. When it launched, people were critical and highlighted that it is not a typical hard-hitting gory or violent campaign, but it is not meant to be. It is meant to make it so that people want to drive at 30 km/h, and to press that button and remind them of their connection to their kids and community. I am glad the Deputy feels it is working. We certainly do.

It is working for me.

Ms Sarah O'Connor

We will take that as something we can replicate. There are two ways that we look at how we measure a campaign and how it is working. The first is in the immediate sense, namely in the two or three weeks after a campaign when we get a post-campaign analysis. That is really hard data, including a certain number of impressions, the number of people who clicked on the link, saw it on video on demand and watched it through to the end, and so on. As a second port of call, we look at tracking information and at how many people say they saw it and remember it, shared it with somebody, understood what it was asking them to do, and that it has made them change their behaviour. We look at both in tandem. We have the post-campaign analysis of the 30 km/h advertisement campaign in hand. It has performed strongly. We ran it in November and again in March this year. We are waiting for the tracking information to come in in the next ten days or so. I am happy to share that with the committee afterwards. The reason it is a little delayed is that we were trying to get value for our money in tracking the two bursts rather than tracking the first one as it went.

The inherent impression we are getting is that people like that it is based on music and on memory. It makes people realise the impact on their community and that it is not traditional. It is unexpected and it has that sticky nature. That is one of the things we are trying to do with it. Even though we are fixated on speeding in rural areas, speeding in urban areas is really important in the context cyclists, pedestrians and kids. I have the child casualty report with me right now, which is much of what dictated the need for that campaign. Hopefully we can see it make an impact. Mr. Rowland's research would tell you that, where he is saying roughly one in two people do not comply with the 30 km/h, 50 km/h and 60 km/h limits, it is actually higher in the 30 km/h zones. It is well in excess of 58% of people. We have a significant body of work to do to get people to understand why the 30 km/h speed limit is so important.

This is my last question. I thank the Chair for his indulgence. Where does the RSA meet the local authority on the speed limits and on ensuring that where a speed limit needs to be increased or decreased, based on the RSA's research? Where does the rubber hit the road, so to speak, on that conversation where the RSA is trying to take out collision spots, black spots and so on in urban areas specifically?

Ms Sarah O'Connor

I will touch on that and maybe let one of my colleagues come in. There is a local speed limit implementation group that I sit on. It met yesterday. It started a series of meetings, ramping up over the course of the last two weeks since the legislation passed. Members of the local authority, either involved in engineering or the county council, sit on the group. We sit on local authority working together groups in every constituency in the country alongside councillors, council staff, gardaí and other key organisations. There will be a timeline and milestones of how that process will work which will become clear over the next weeks. We work closely with them. They also sit on the road safety transformation board with Mr. Waide, our CEO.

Mr. Michael Rowland

We are also part of the speed limit review. We played an active part in that and we are still represented on the implementation group of the speed limit review and the implementation of the recommended speed limits. That is active.

Ms Sarah O'Connor

It might be useful for the Deputy to know the reason the 30 km/h piece came in, in advance was to really begin to get people primed so when they do see those speed limits coming in, they will feel as if they get it and it does not take a long time for it to begin to kick in.

It is my slot next but I will defer to Deputy Kenny as he has to go to the Chamber.

I am watching the proceedings in the Chamber and will have to leave in a few minutes. I have a couple of short points to make. Deterrence theory and how more visible police enforcement improves the perception of a certainty of being detected and, therefore, being punished has the biggest impact on offending and on people breaking the rules of the road, etc, is mentioned in the RSA's report. That is one of the key issues all of us have been talking about. The level of Garda enforcement is also one of the key issues. While I understand the GoSafe vans have a role to play, we have become too dependent on them as the main factor in detecting speeding, in particular. I spoke to someone recently and she admitted that she had probably for quite some time always felt she was in a rush. She was rushing to pick up kids or to work and was always driving too fast. One day a patrol car with its lights flashing came up behind her, pulled her over and the garda gave her a stern talking-to. She has discovered she can rearrange her life and drive within the speed limit. She said driving past the speed van and saying, "God, do you think I was caught with that?", would not have had anything like the same effect as having that person in a uniform approach her and give her a stern talking-to. That is what is missing in this. From a crime prevention point of view, a garda is watching other things besides speed. He or she will be there for everything else as well which is one of the key issues we need to get right.

The other issue that was mentioned was that so many people nowadays are found to not be wearing their seat belts, which very much surprises me because in the vast majority of modern cars or cars that are ten years old or more, if the driver does not wear the seat belt, an alarm goes off in the car. Is it that people buckle their seat belts underneath and do not wear them? Is that what is going on? Should there be a particularly high penalty if motorists are found to be trying to cod the system rather than just casually not bothering to put it on?

Mr. Michael Rowland

I will answer the seat belt question first. There is still a relatively high compliance rate of people wearing their seat belts. Our surveys suggest that seat belt wearing is in the mid-90%. Where the issue arises is the number of people who are killed who were not wearing their seat belts. It is not that 25% of people are not wearing their seat belts; it is the approximately 25% of people who have been killed were not wearing their seat belts. We have relatively high compliance on front and rear seat belt wearing but it has slipped. There has been a deterioration in seat belt wearing rates That varies from year to year. The biggest issue consistently has been the non-seat belt wearing of people involved in fatal collisions and who have died as a result.

They might have been alive if they had been wearing their seat belts.

Mr. Sam Waide

Yes. There are a large number of compliant people but the single vehicle or multivehicle collisions with multiple fatalities where four people were in a car and none of them was wearing their seat belts skews the data. It is unfair in one way because for the large number of people who are compliant the data is slightly skewed in that way.

It is a reminder to all of us to make sure we always wear our seat belts.

Mr. Sam Waide

Absolutely.

Another issue I want to raise is people who skip getting their licences and are learner drivers forever. How is that being dealt with and what measures are being taken in respect of that?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

That is one of the priorities of the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, has with us. We refer to it as the multiple learner permit issue. We will put in place a structure that will ensure a person would not be able to pass a particular number of learner permits without having sat a driver's test. If someone fails a test today, there is no requirement for him or her to go back and do the essential driver training, EDT. Our vision is that this person would go back into that way of education again and try to work out why he or she failed. My team and I are well down the road of developing a concept. We are working with the Department of Transport on that. We have some high-level recommendations and views we want to work through and stress out. From the RSA's perspective, we have quite a high system dependency that needs to be changed. We have ten systems that feed into the licensing system, which will have to be amended and changed. That will take time but it is one of the our priorities. Certainly, from my own perspective it is one of my top three priorities.

When will that be?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

I actually have a meeting with the Department on Friday and we will discuss how we will scope this out. I would like to have something in play by the end of this year. That is something I know the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, shares as well. We want to have something. It may end up being a phased approach but we definitely want to get well on the road to having something implemented within 2024. It will not necessarily be the full package but it will certainly get us on our way.

I will address a couple of issues. One is the issue of people who lose their driver's licence or whose licences are confiscated. They are banned from driving by the court but very few of them surrender their licences. I am not as concerned as to whether they surrender the plastic card but we seem to keep finding people on the roads who are driving without permission to drive. An Garda Síochána's X, formerly Twitter, account seems to keep posting about how a car driving erratically was pulled in and it had no tax, NCT or driver's licence and the driver had various opioids in his or her system. What else can the committee, the RSA, An Garda Síochána and all of us do to prevent people who have either never been licensed to drive from driving or who are not allowed to drive from driving?

I will try to touch on the driver's test as well but all of us feel a sense of huge frustration to hear on the radio that so-and-so was convicted and then it turns out these people are continuing to drive. It does not seem to matter to them that their driver's licence has been taken. They just keep going and it appears that there is no one out there to stop them.

Mr. Brendan Walsh

It is a problem. As the Road Safety Authority, we are not part of the court system or the prosecution system that takes a physical licence away.

Should the RSA be?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

The RSA provides information into the national vehicle driver file. Assistant commissioner Hilman recently referenced the Garda's wider mobility strategy. Currently gardaí have a personal digital assistant, PDA, handheld device that when they pull a person over they put his or her details in. My understanding is there are 300 of those PDAs operating today but by the end of quarter 2 the plan is that every rank-and-file garda on the roads will be able to access that information to see if, for instance, Brendan Walsh is disqualified from driving there and then, rather than speaking to the person and having to go back and check the data in the station. That information and that technology will be made available to An Garda Síochána.

With regard to whether the RSA should be involved, we can work together with An Garda Síochána to try to find a way to increase the benefit we could add to society.

Does Mr. Walsh think it is a power the RSA would maybe like to have? If somebody breaks a red light or is speeding, the RSA can do nothing about it. The authority can ask An Garda Síochána to do something about it and can ask the local authorities to install red light cameras but it cannot install them. That is where I see the disconnect in that we want the RSA to make roads better but the RSA cannot install the cameras on the N7 or any other road for that matter. Whether it is the RSA does it or somebody else, that would seem to require a joined-up process. Every one of us came here today one way or another. As it happens I cycled in today and I saw people breaking red lights at three different junctions. It happens all the time; it is persistent. I take two or three similar routes and motorists break red lights at particular junctions all of the time. It happens at Miltown Cross, The Goat and Leeson Street Bridge over and over again. People are breaking red lights all day long. It is a culture where people think if I break this, I can break that.

Sometimes they do not get lucky or the person they interact with does not get lucky. Last week I happened to be driving on the motorway, which is not something I do all that often. A guy came up behind me, flew out, around and back in front of me and was swerving from the third lane back to the first lane. That is where technology works, the camera or black-box-type scenario, the tracking mechanism that identifies drivers speeding and driving dangerously. That is how we catch them. I am frustrated by everybody trying to do the right thing in their own little silo, but it is not happening as quickly as we want it to. Maybe that is an unfair comment and I am on the authority's side on this, but there is not enough focus from everybody to make sure that people learn not to drive dangerously at these particular junctions where we see consistent infractions. We sat on the N7 where the compliance rate went from 67% to 97%, based on average speed. We all know the six-minute stretch where drivers watch their speed even more than they watch it anywhere else.

Mr. Sam Waide

The RSA has been made aware of the intention this year for cameras to be installed in red light junctions in cities. As the Leas Cathaoirleach rightly pointed out, the authority supports and advocates this approach. We are not responsible for it, but we support it. My understanding is that it is a culmination of the city councils is working with the NTA. There is also an enforcement piece from An Garda Síochána but there is also a-----

How do we make it actually happen?

Mr. Sam Waide

A ministerial announcement was made in this regard, recently. I expect that in the next partnership board and ministerial meeting for road safety it will be raised as to how and when it will happen. I expect it will be this year, but I cannot really say because the RSA is not leading on it.

In terms of the drivers, every garda will have this technology and they will be able to call up the information more quickly. Is that correct?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

That is my understanding

Does anybody confiscate cars at the moment at all?

Mr. Sam Waide

Yes, An Garda Síochána, confiscates vehicles. On the point about the licence and disqualified drivers, the Courts Service, which sits on the partnership board, plays an important role in this. An Garda Síochána and the RSA exchange information on individuals licences, and the Courts Service plays an important role. If someone is disqualified or has points on their licence, the Courts Service plays an important role in forwarding information to us after the court case or court appearance

Does it go back into the database the gardaí then have access to?

Mr. Sam Waide

Yes.

Is the waiting time for driver licence testing now down to 15 weeks?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

It was down to 15.8 weeks at the end of March.

Fórsa officials will appear before the committee in the next hour. Their opening statement states that at the time of writing, waiting times are approximately 24 weeks. I want clarity from the RSA.

Mr. Brendan Walsh

That is not correct.

It may have been the case when the statement was written and I am not sure how long ago it was done. It has been in or around 15 weeks for a while. Is that correct?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

No. it has not, actually. As of this afternoon, it dropped below 15 weeks and is now at 14.8 weeks.

When was the waiting time 24 weeks?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

It would have probably been 24 weeks in January.

Okay, so not a million years ago.

Mr. Brendan Walsh

Back in October 2023, the waiting time was 30 weeks. The reduction has been delivered through the team working overtime. We have extra driver testers on board and we are working Saturdays. We have given a commitment to the Department of Transport and the Minister of State, Deputy Chambers, to have this back on track by the summer and we are on course to do so.

A reference was made before that may be helpful to the next session we have that the RSA made a commitment that the system would need approximately 170 permanent testers. It is saying that there are currently fewer than 130 permanent testers. Is that correct and is it working towards the figure of 170 or have it decided that 150 is a more realistic figure?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

I can give the exact numbers on that . We have employed 130 permanent testers, but we also have an additional number of testers with us for the next two years. As of today, our current complement is 164. We are working with the Department of Transport to build a permanent sanction. The number will have to be confirmed, but I expect that it will be 165 or 170. While we are working a lot of overtime at the moment to deal with the problem, we will bring the waiting time down.

That is not sustainable from the perspective of a work life balance for people----

Mr. Brendan Walsh

Precisely. That is why-----

-----and working time directives and everything else. It is not sustainable to have people on permanent overtime.

Mr. Brendan Walsh

Indeed. Based on the data we have today, we envisage requiring a permanent complement of approximately 170, which is pretty much what we discussed during every meeting.

Mr. Walsh is telling us that the authority is on track to hire 40 permanent testers or thereabouts. Is that correct?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

What I am saying is that we will definitely be going back to the market to secure additional testers. I cannot give the exact number but I expect it to be in the region of 40 .

That is useful information for us to have. Fórsa will have its own opening statement and it will mention issues we want to raise. Rather than us meeting with Fórsa and having to come back to you again, it is useful to know. The RSA anticipates having a permanent workforce of about 170. It would not be 130 permanent staff and then a rolling 40 temporary staff. Is that correct?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

That is our objective with the Department and we will continue to work with it on that basis.

The intention is to have a permanent staff complement based on the fact that the population is increasing and more drivers are coming into the system. Is that correct?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

Precisely. As we sit here today, there has been a 53% increase versus 2019 in the number of people on a learner permit. They will all have to transition to a full licence. We see that the number of people coming into our driver theory test centres is still increasing. We still see a high number of applications coming in. We have been looking at this since Covid. . The interpretation was that it was a Covid blip. However, the reality is that our population is young and we have a high rate of immigration. As a result, more people need a driver's licence. As I mentioned, we expect to deliver approximately 250,000 driving tests. I expect this to be the new norm. In 2019, 167,000 tests were administered.

What is the situation regarding the exchange of driver's licences between countries such as Kenya and Moldova and various other countries? Has any progress been made with Moldova or other countries?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

We previously rejected the exchange agreement with Moldova. However, there have been changes and a memorandum of understanding and legislation are being prepared to put an exchange agreement in place.

Does this mean that people with current Moldovan licences will be able to get Irish licences?

Mr. Brendan Walsh

Yes. They will be notified that they can exchange their Moldovan licence for an Irish one.

Without having to do a test or anything like that.

Mr. Brendan Walsh

Yes, without having to do a test. We are also at the same stage with Georgia and we continue to engage with North Macedonia. This is driven by the need for truck drivers.

Exactly, lorry, truck and bus drivers are required. I was talking to the former Kenyan ambassador to Ireland and he mentioned that they drive on the same side of the road as us. He made the point that Kenya was quite a sophisticated country with lots of drivers and there may be opportunities here for them. Perhaps the RSA should consider talking to Kenya at some point in the future.

Mr. Brendan Walsh

Absolutely. The largest number of requests for licence exchange for commercial vehicles is actually coming from South Africa.

This is probably because they drive on the same side of the road as we do here and they are English speaking and so on. I thank Mr. Walsh for that.

I thank the Cathaoirleach. I apologise for being late. I wish it could have been here from the start because I have been working on road safety since I started my career as a politician and even before that. The witnesses lead many of the numerous campaigns we have on education and modifying driver behaviour. I read earlier that another cyclist has died in Dún Laoghaire. I want to ask them about the engineering solutions that are implemented, including the Part 8 and section 38 applications that go on at local authority level to improve road safety and large projects such as the living streets initiative in Dún Laoghaire and the work that Galway County Council tried to do in Salthill. Has the RSA ever made a submission on road safety improvements to statutory processes?

Mr. Sam Waide

I am sorry-----

To me, the fact that you cannot answer that is shocking. You lead on these campaigns, and I really-----

Mr. Sam Waide

Sorry, there are a few questions there. Let us address them one by one. The first part of Deputy Matthews's question was about campaigns. Maybe if he can-----

I do not want to talk about campaigns. I think they are important. I think educational campaigns are important. I think driver modification campaigns are important. I think everybody who uses the road campaigns to educate and to try to modify behaviour so it is safe for everybody.

Mr. Sam Waide

Yes.

I am talking about the need for hard engineering solutions out there to provide segregation for vulnerable road users such as walkers, cyclists and children.

Mr. Sam Waide

Okay.

Often, we see these processes going up for public consultation. Anybody can make a submission on them under section 38 of the road Act and Part 8 of the planning Act.

Mr. Sam Waide

The point was made earlier in the session that RSA personnel are not road safety engineers. As mentioned earlier, we provide information on collision data. That information is provided and then the local authorities can make decisions. The point was also made earlier, which I will reiterate, that we have continued to share information that has informed those local schemes. The Department of Transport had 60 local schemes in 2024. In 2023, a number-----

Sorry, but we are under time pressure. I accept that the RSA feeds in and collates data-----

Mr. Sam Waide

However, the engineering solutions are determined by TII and the local authorities. Those are where the engineering solutions come from.

I am not asking the RSA to design engineering solutions. I am asking it to provide some leadership by submitting to those public consultations to say that the RSA supports the measures that the local authority and the district engineers are trying to implement, often in the face of opposition from councillors who speak out of one side of their mouth and then vote another way. I am asking the RSA to engage in the public consultation process to say that the actions and measures we are trying to introduce at local authority level will save lives and to ask those involved to act by voting to support them.

Mr. Sam Waide

We will do so. We have done so. We have contributed to wider consultations, including the wider transport strategies. We have and we will. We take the Deputy's specific request as an action. We will contribute. It is in everyone's interest, including that of the RSA, that if there are engineering solutions that will contribute to safer roads and safer use by everyone, including in particular vulnerable road users, then we can absolutely do that.

Can Mr. Waide clarify something for me? He said that the RSA has made submissions to strategies and maybe to design. Has it ever actually submitted to a statutory process like a Part 8 or section 38 application by a local authority to implement road safety measures for cyclists and pedestrians? Has anyone from the RSA, as one of the leading agencies trying to implement road safety measures, ever actually put pen to paper and submitted to the public consultation process to show councillors that the RSA supports this or is aligned with it? I think we need-----

I would love to give the Deputy more time. I can give extra time at the end.

I think we need that type of action.

It is a very good point.

I would urge the RSA to submit to Part 8 and section 38 applications and help our councillors who are trying to do this work across the country. The funding is there. We have done the studies. We know what needs to be done. If the RSA could show that leadership, it would help.

I thank Deputy Matthews. I would love to have given him more time but we are finishing at 3.30 p.m. I have just seen that a motorcyclist died this morning and another cyclist died in Dún Laoghaire at a junction I have cycled through many times and with which I am very familiar. I want to pass on my condolences and those of everyone on the committee to the families and friends of those concerned. Again, these incidents relate to everything the witnesses are doing and what we are all trying to help them with. Anything they want or feel they need to come back to us with, they should please do so. The point Deputy Matthews made in terms of public consultation is useful and helpful. I spent 12 and a half years in a local authority. I was chair of a transportation strategic policy committee. We are all motorists as well as being cyclists and pedestrians and other road users. Almost everybody is a motorist. Sometimes, when we are in our cars, we do not think of other road users as much as we should. It is really important that when measures are being adopted, if the RSA is in favour of them, it should let everyone know. It gives help to other members who do not have the expertise the RSA has, which I appreciate. The RSA has a role in saying something is a good measure and should be tried. That would be helpful.

Does Mr. Rowland wish to come in?

Mr. Michael Rowland

I will make two very quick points. I am not sure what the hesitancy was with regard to Part 8 and section 38. I am not aware of those. I recall that we made submissions in the past, but whether they were on part 8 or section 38 applications, I am not sure. The other point I would make is that we are in regular contact with local engineers who are making road improvement schemes. We provide collision data to them on those particular locations as well.

Okay. I thank Mr. Waide, chief executive, and his colleagues, Ms Kelly, Ms O'Connor, Mr. Walsh and Mr. Rowland, for all they are doing and for coming here today to share with us their thoughts on road safety and other aspects within their remit. I will suspend the meeting while we bring the representatives from Fórsa into the room.

Sitting suspended at 3.35 p.m. and resumed at 3.42 p.m.
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