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Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 10 Jul 1947

Vol. 34 No. 4

Imposition of Duties (Confirmation of Order) Bill, 1947— ( Certified Money Bill ) —Second Stage.

Question proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

On the 29th January, 1947, the Government imposed an Emergency (Imposition of Duties) Order, No. 227, placing a customs duty of 37½ per cent., or 25 per cent. preferential, ad valorem, on combs suitable for personal use or adornment. An industry was established here during the war. Previous to the war, combs were not being made in this country, but when imports were curtailed during the emergency a number of firms, particularly the button manufacturers, began to make combs from home-produced casein. This was an out-of-date process, and later the manufacturers began to produce combs from plastic powders by an injection moulding process.

During the year 1946 there was a considerable increase in the importation of combs. In that year the value of the imports of combs was some £64,000, as compared with an estimated import value of £10,000 or £12,000 pre-war. It was represented that the home manufacturers were unable to secure orders and had to lay off a number of employees. It was alleged that seconds, or slightly defective products, which, apparently, are the result of defects in the moulding process, were being imported here in very large quantities and that this was the reason the imports had increased so considerably in 1946; that, if these imports were to be permitted to continue, the industry, which had been established during the war and which seemed to be developing so satisfactorily, would be in serious danger. Therefore, the Government decided to impose the tariff to which I have referred—37½ per cent. full, and 25 per cent. preferential, rate. An undertaking was obtained from the home manufacturers that prices for home-produced combs would not be increased except in the event of a rise in the cost of raw materials or labour.

I do not know what is the reason for the laughter on the part of some Senators, but I presume, at any rate, if one has to regard the laughter as a form of interrogation that the reply to it would be that, if an undertaking is given to the Minister for Industry and Commerce that certain standards will have to be achieved by the manufacturers of combs or any other product which is protected in this fashion, it will be the duty of the Minister to see that the undertaking is loyally observed. The Minister for Industry and Commerce is satisfied that the raw materials for this industry are readily procurable. Stocks of combs have, in fact, been built up by the manufacturers here, and he is quite satisfied that the manufacturing capacity will be sufficient not alone to meet the requirements of the home market, but also to establish an export trade. In fact, efforts have been made to establish such a trade, but there has been difficulty in securing import licences from other countries. Were it not for these difficulties, the Minister is satisfied than an export trade could be begun. The combs to be produced here will not exceed in prices the prices of comparative articles which are being sold in Great Britain and the manufacturers will be required to maintain equal standards of efficiency. I do not know that there is any other point, but if any Senator wishes to ask any question regarding the matter I will be glad to answer if I have the information available.

Will the Minister tell us where the factory is situated?

One is situated in Dublin.

How many factories are there?

One factory is situated in Dublin and a second has begun in Tipperary, I understand.

Has the Minister any information as to the number of people employed, the rates of wages and whether the labour is male or female?

There is a difficulty in giving precise figures regarding the amount of employment because these factories are producing other commodities as well. It has not been the practice to give precise figures when one firm is the main producer. That has been the position up to the present, but some 140 people are employed in the Dublin factory. As I have said, a second firm has started in Nenagh, County Tipperary, but I do not know whether they have succeeded in getting into full production. They have only recently gone into the business. We are satisfied that, between them, these two firms can produce more than sufficient for our entire requirements.

I appreciate the Minister's difficulty in dealing with a matter with which he could not be expected to be familiar, but I do not mind saying frankly that I view with the utmost suspicion legislation of this kind. It is only a small matter in the case of this one article. I have asked, and I ask again, that, before these duties are put on, there should be something in the nature of a public inquiry in order to protect the public, because the assurances the Minister has given us now are, in my opinion, utterly worthless for the protection of the public. He has told us that the Minister will see that proper standards of efficiency are maintained. How can you assess standards of efficiency? I am glad that we shall have an opportunity of dealing with this matter on a wider basis in relation to another Bill, judging, at least, by its title.

Do not judge a book by the cover.

I agree, but I am hoping that we will be able to get to closer quarters with this whole problem. The Minister says that there is some assurance that prices will not be higher than the corresponding—I think he said "corresponding", whatever that may mean—prices in Great Britain. We had that assurance from the manufacturers in the case of wireless sets. The ink on it is hardly dry and prices have gone higher than they are in Great Britain. I do not place any value whatever on these assurances. I repeat that, in principle, legislation of this kind should be viewed with the deepest suspicion and the public should have some safeguards in the form of an examination by some inquiry, tariff commission or some body of that kind, before these duties are put on, which we know from experience operated against the public interest.

Would the Minister confirm that both these companies or the persons owning these factories are nationals and are carrying on not under the separate licence which has to be given, under the Control of Manufactures Act, by the Minister to non-nationals before they can manufacture?

If they are not nationals, there must be, under the Control of Manufactures Act, a certain proportion of Irish capital.

Or they must be licensed.

I want to know if they are licensed.

I am informed that both companies comply fully with the Control of Manufactures Act, that they are not licensed.

They would be complying with the Act if they were licensed.

Question put and agreed to.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

When is it proposed to take the next stage?

Is there any reason for taking the next stage now? I should like to think over the matter. I do not want to inconvenience the Government, but we shall be meeting next week and I should like to think this matter over and find out something more about it. I object to taking the next stage now, and, if there is an objection, I understand that the next stage is not taken now.

I have no personal objection, but nothing is lost by taking the Bill next week.

I have no interest, good, bad or indifferent, in the people running this factory, but it has come to my notice in the course of my business that combs were being dumped in this country at less than ½d. apiece. If that can be prevented without this Bill becoming law, I shall be satisfied, but, if the passing of this Bill is the only way in which the duty can be imposed, I propose that the House pass the Bill in all its stages to-day. Further, if there is to be an inquiry into this matter of duties, I hope it will not be confined to the imposition of duties, but that there will be an inquiry as to why——

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

We are dealing with a particular duty now.

I hope there will be an inquiry——

There is only one Cathaoirleach.

And the Senator is trying to override him. May I suggest that, if Senator Hearne reads the Bill in front of him, he will see that it confirms an Order made under the Emergency Imposition of Duties Act, 1932? We have had several of these Bills from time to time, and it has been explained on more than one occasion that what happens under that Act is that the Minister makes an Order which is operative as from the date on which it is made, but has subsequently to be confirmed by the House. As I understand the law, as between the date of the Order and the date of confirmation by this House, the Order is operative as a prohibition.

Another reason for my objection is that the Minister whose Department is concerned would naturally be more familiar with the facts than the Minister who has to deal with the Bill now. I press my objection.

I have given the House all the information that is available. I do not know what further information I can give. If it is sought to turn the debate into a general discussion of tariffs, it is a different matter. I have given all the information available with regard to it and the Minister whose Department is concerned cannot give me more.

What is the practice when a Senator objects?

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

If the objection is pressed, the House will have to divide.

I do not wish to divide the House.

It would be very undesirable to have a division. I have no objection to giving the Bill this evening, but, considering the general way in which the House does its business, it would be lamentable if the House were to divide with regard to taking the next stage of a Bill like this. If Senator Sir John Keane, for some reason known to himself, wants the next stage taken next week, and if the duty is already operative and we are merely confirming it, we could leave it over until next week. The Minister's fear, however, that we shall have a general discussion on tariffs is, I hope, unfounded.

Judging by Senator Sir John Keane's remarks when making his protest, we will have such a discussion.

An Leas-Chathaoirleach

That is another day's work altogether.

Committee Stage ordered for Wednesday, 16th July.
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