It is intended to take items Nos. 2, 1, 3, 5, and 14. It is intended that the Minister, when he is dealing with item No. 2 — the Gas (Amendment) Bill, 1987 — will take the Clonmel Gas Order, 1987, simultaneously.
Order of Business.
Could I ask the Leader of the House if he can make available to us the Taoiseach, possibly, or one of the Ministers who were involved in the negotiations over the weekend involving the interests of this country, as we are the only House of the Oireachtas now sitting? The facility of a discussion would normally be made available to the Dáil. As the Dáil is not sitting, I suggest that the Leader of the House might make the Taoiseach available to us to discuss the Heads of State meeting which in the perception of the media has not been sucessful as there is an English veto obviously on the final decisions, and the problems of the Minister for Agriculture over the past weekend in which some agreement was reached which, obviously, is not to the benefit of Irish farmers, and the Minister for Tourism and Transport who had a meeting over the weekend in Luxembourg, the results of which were not to our satisfaction, either. As these are very important aspects, especially arising out of——
Senator Ferris, we are still on the Order of Business and, if Senator Ross cannot make a speech, you cannot make one either.
No, but a discussion on these matters should be facilitated. Could the Leader of the House make the Taoiseach available to us? All these Ministers have been battling away at Councils of Ministers meetings in various European capitals and none of the results seems to be to our benefit. Recently the Constitution was amended to allow the Single European Act.
You have made your point and I think the Leader of the House has heard it.
It is important that the facility for such discussions should be made available to us. I thank you for allowing me to ask him but it was the Leader of the House, through the Chair, whom I was asking.
I would certainly support the point made by Senator Ferris. It is normal procedure when the Taoiseach returns from a European Council that he makes a full report to the other House. Since the other House is now in recess it would be useful, from the national point of view and from the point of view of the Taoiseach, if a full report could be made to the Seanad on the outcome of the European Council meeting just past and on the other important European meetings. Also on the Order of Business, I would like to ask the Leader of the House what hours he proposes to sit over the coming weeks, if it will be the normal hours or if longer hours are envisaged. Is it in order to welcome the new Clerk of the Seanad and to wish him well in his duties? He has the respect of all Members of this House and those who have known him in the past know that he is going to be an outstanding success in the very onerous job he has taken on. I would also like to say farewell to the outgoing Clerk, Mr. Tobin, who has given many long and fruitful years of service to Members of this House and to the institutions of the Oireachtas. On behalf of my party I would like to wish him well in retirement.
On that last point, I would like to be associated with the good wishes which Senator Manning conveyed to the incoming Clerk of the Seanad, who I know is a graduate of UCC and I equally endorse his sentiments about the departing Clerk, Mr. Tobin, whom all of us in our first days here found to be a very great help.
On the Order of Business, I propose that Item No. 39 should be included. That is the motion in the name of Senator Mooney et al proposing to delay the implementation of the Extradition Act. In making this proposal, I want to make a general point on the Order of Business, namely, that the Business of this House should always be flexible and certainly even more so if something becomes suddenly topical and, particularly as Senators Manning and Ferris have already said, if the other House is not in session. I am sure the Cathaoirleach would be the first to agree that Seanad Éireann is the leading forum of public opinion when it is the only House sitting. Therefore, we should be flexible in ordering our business and adjusting it to serve a particular purpose. On the particular matter, the topicality of Article 39, I would like to point out that in The Sunday Times last Sunday there was an article which referred to Senator Mooney's motion suggesting it was a form of pressure on the Taoiseach in anticipation of the Brussels summit——
Senator Murphy, I did not allow Senator Ross to make a speech and I am certainly not going to allow you to make a speech now. In my ten years of service in this House, and even long before I became a Member, I have appreciated, as the Senator does, the value of this House. We are in the process of trying to change it but there are rules by which I have to abide — it is not my toughness in the Chair. I would like to give the Senator, and indeed Senator Ross, the freedom of debating whatever you would like but I have rules to which I must adhere.
I appreciate that, but I am making a totally different point from Senator Ross who was speaking under Article 29 of Standing Orders. I am speaking on the Order of Business. I am suggesting a particular reason why item No. 39 should be included in the Order of Business. It is topical and I am trying to establish its topicality. The topicality is due to the fact that the press have taken great notice of Senator Mooney's motion. As I already said, The Sunday Times suggested that it brings pressure on the Taoiseach. The Irish Times of last Monday suggested that the Taoiseach thinks sympathetically of Senator Mooney's motion. In the Irish Press today I note that in a communique issued in Brussels, the Taoiseach has committed himself, and I quote “to implementing all measures to defeat terrorism” which surely must mean implementing the Extradition Act. Therefore, there is an apparent contradiction between Senator Mooney's motion and what the Government propose. The public at large and the House are entitled to know.
The Senator is making a speech. Will he please resume his seat? Senator Murphy.
I propose that item No. 39 be included in the Order of Business.
I second the motion that item No. 39 be included in the Order of Business for similar reasons to Senator Murphy's. The House has a right to have the position of the Taoiseach and Senator Mooney clarified on this issue because it appears that Fianna Fáil are speaking with two different voices on the issue of extradition.
Will Senator Ross please resume his seat? The Taoiseach is not here to defend himself.
Senator Mooney is here and maybe we will have Senator Mooney's support for a discussion on extradition because he wanted to put it down on the Order of Business.
We in Fine Gael would not be prepared to give up our Private Members' Time this evening, but I would be very willing to talk to the Whips and to the Senators in question to see if this motion could be taken at an early date. This side of the House would like to have it debated at as early a date as possible.
I would like an assurance from the Leader of the House that we will be taking item No. 27, the report of the all-party Committee on Women's Rights, before the House rises for the summer recess. I am also deeply concerned about item No. 9 on the Order Paper in view of the fact that a Private Members' Bill on adoption was defeated in the other House. There is great concern that there should be some movement in the debate on the adoption legislation and on the report on sexual violence.
I support the vote of congratulations extended to our new clerk, Mr. Kieran Coughlan, and welcome him back to the House. When he served as Clerk-Assistant here he certainly gave excellent service and great cooperation to Members. I wish him success and satisfaction in his new term as Clerk of this House. As one of the longer serving Members of the House, I should like to be associated with the votes of good wishes to our retiring Clerk, Mr. Jack Tobin, who served as Clerk for the past 16 years. Mr. Tobin was an exemplary public servant who spent some 40 years in the service of the Oireachtas and he carried out his duties with great distinction. I wish him long life and happiness in his retirement.
I too pay tribute to Mr. Jack Tobin. I very sincerely welcome back our new Clerk and wish him well. In the past when tributes were being paid to colleagues in this House, for example to Senator Dooge, to Senators O'Leary, McGuinness, Eoin Ryan, Séamus de Brún, Flor O'Mahony and people like that I refrained from paying tributes as I felt that it might be considered that I was too big for my boots in speaking, but in the case of Jack Tobin it is different. For a man who has given such valued service to the Seanad, to pay him a proper tribute I would have to be like William Cowper, the poet: "I would need a lyre with other strings, /such help from heaven as some have feigned they drew, / An eloquence scarce given to mortals / New and undebased by praise of meaner things". I do not have those considerations but I have one thing, that is, a desire to in some way pay the deep debt of gratitude that I owe to Mr. Tobin. I have been very fortunate through life, because I have always had somebody to whom I could go for help. In the Seanad, Mr. Tobin was one of those. My lasting memory of him was when he told me some time ago that everybody elected to this House can play a full part irrespective of their educational background, beliefs, party affiliations or whatever. That has been a great help to me. He is a wonderful man. Even when I met him speeding around corners when he was secretary to the Forum, he was always patient and helpful. It must be a great satisfaction to someone when at the end of a period in a difficult onerous position, he can look back on a job well done. Mr. Tobin can indeed do that. In that respect there is no need for anybody to pay a tribute to him. I will finish in the words of the poet, William Cowper: "But thou hast little need / There is a book by seraphs writ with beams of heavenly light / Wherein the eyes of God not seldom look / A chronicle of actions just and bright / There all thy deeds, my faithful colleague, shine / And since thou own'st that praise I spare thee mine".
There is just one final comment. In my childhood we started off with a little school book which had a poem entitled "Manners maketh the man". I never lived up to the ideals expressed in the poem which said: "At 10 or 40 'tis the same / The manners tell the tale and I discern the gentleman by signs that never fail". By any yardstick Jack Tobin is a thorough gentleman. I wish him well in in his retirement.
I join with the other speakers. As the Fine Gael Whip I welcome Kieran Coughlan back as the Clerk and I hope to work very well with him as we did in the past. It was an excellent choice and I am delighted at his appointment even though he is a Cork man, but we will forgive him for that. I should also like to join in the tributes to Jack Tobin who was very helpful to me during the years he was in the Seanad.
Before we go from the Order of Business, you have not clarfied the matter on the Adjournment.
I have.
I want to be associated with all that has been said by previous speakers. I congratulate Kieran Coughlan on his appointment as Clerk of the Seanad. He acted as Assistant-Clerk for some time and I am quite happy that he has returned to us. I am confident that he will be as good a man as Jack Tobin. I do not expect him to be better than Jack Tobin, but to be as good will be great. Senator McDonald and I are the two who have served longest here with Jack Tobin. I always regarded him as a highly efficient officer of this House and a man who was most courtous and fair to everyone. We are all very sorry that Mr. Tobin has retired from this House as he has reached the age limit. I wish him many many happy years in retirement.
I join with our colleagues in congratulating Kieran Coughlan on his return to this House. Most of us paid him tribute when he was leaving us and said everything we wanted to say about Mr. Coughlan on that day. Our sorrow at losing him was lessened by the fact that Miss Deirdre Lane took his place. On that day I mentioned that Kieran Coughlan was the protégé of his superior officer, Jack Tobin. Mr. Coughlan acquired valuable experience by being second in command to Mr. Tobin. Now that Mr. Tobin has retired it is appropriate that we would pay our tribute to him. He was an excellent officer of the House and was always helpful to Members, irrespective of which side of the House they sat on. He will be sadly missed, both as the Clerk of this House and as the returning officer who was very helpful to all of us, especially when he deemed us to be elected. We will miss him and I hope he has many happy years and good health in his retirement. I welcome Mr. Coughlan back to the Seanad.
I should like to associate myself with the tributes to the outgoing Clerk of the Seanad and also to the incoming one. I assure you a Chathaoirleach that I do not wish to make a speech either on that topic or on the matter I wish to suggest. I would like to know if there is a possibility of provision on the Order of Business for some statement of reassurance about a matter which was raised last week by my colleague, Senator Mary Robinson, that is, the fate of the Seanad Chamber and, in particular, the ceiling. Since the reassurances were given last week I received detailed letters of concern from both the National Trust — An Taisce — and the Irish Georgian Society and I have also been approached by a colleague in the Fine Arts Department of Trinity College all of whom are concerned with this matter. I am slightly confused because I understood last week that we had received reassurance and I wonder if that can be clarified in view of the receipt of these letters.
Before I call on Senator Lanigan to conclude I would like to be associated with the tributes to the outgoing Clerk, Jack Tobin. He has been Clerk of this House since I was elected in 1977. I wish him well and long years in retirement. I warmly welcome Kieran Coughlan back to the Seanad. He acted as Assistant Clerk during the four years when I was Leas-Chathaoirleach of this House. If the way he acted during that time is any indication of how he may act as Clerk of the Seanad I have no trouble in recommending him. I wish Jack Tobin many happy years in retirement and I sincerely wish Kieran Coughlan well in his new appointment.
I will start on the point raised by Senator Norris. We will do a further check regarding the ceiling in the Chamber. From what I can gather the concern arose because it was felt that by reason of a complete impression being taken of the ceiling, the whole ceiling was going to be replaced. There is no intention to replace the whole ceiling but damage has been done which will have to be remedied. It is important when one is dealing with a ceiling of that nature that a complete impression is taken so that if any further slight damage occurs there will be an impression of the original ceiling. If that is not assurance enough I can guarantee Senator Norris that we will take this matter up at the Committee on Procedure and Privileges today and get a further report on it.
Senator Manning asked about the hours of sitting for the coming weeks. We will not be sitting normal hours for the coming weeks. It is the intention to start at 12 noon on Wednesday and to sit until 10 p.m. It is intended to sit from 10.30 a.m. until at least 6 p.m. on Thursday. Depending on what way we get through business next week, it is intended to sit for three days the following week and that we sit extended hours. The hours we will sit after next week will depend on the business we get through this week and next week.
Senators Ross and Murphy suggested that we take item No. 39 out of order. Item No. 39 is not in the name of Paschal Mooney. It is in the name of Fianna Fáil and the Fianna Fáil group will decide when that motion will be taken.
With regard to Senator Fennell's request in relation to items Nos. 9 and 27, I can guarantee that item No. 9 will be taken before the summer adjournment and I will discuss the timing of the item No. 27 with the Minister. It is the intention to have the various Bills that are to come before the House dealt with as a matter of priority and motions will be taken when we get through the Bills on the Order Paper.
With regard to the request made by Senator Ferris and backed by other Senators that the Taoiseach should come and address the House on the various items of interest which were debated at the Council meeting yesterday and the various other debates that have taken place in Europe over the past number of days, we will have a discussion with the Taoisach as soon as the Order of Business is fixed and will report back to the House. I may have misled the House earlier when I said the Order of Business would be items Nos. 2, 14, 1, 3 and 5. It should be items Nos. 2, 14, 1 and 5.
Is the Order of Business agreed?
I propose that the Order of Business be amended by the addition of item No. 39 to be taken this evening after the Fine Gael motion.
I wish to second that.
Senator Murphy has moved an amendment to the Order of Business, that item No. 39 be included in the Order of Business.
Amendment put.
The Seanad divided: Tá, 20; Níl, 23.
Tá
- Bradford, Paul.
- Bulbulia, Katharine.
- Connor, John.
- Daly, Jack.
- Doyle, Joe.
- Fennell, Nuala.
- Ferris, Michael.
- Harte, John.
- Hogan, Philip.
- Kelleher, Peter.
- Kennedy, Patrick.
- McCormack, Padraic.
- McDonald, Charlie.
- Manning, Maurice.
- Murphy, John A.
- Norris, David.
- O'Shea, Brian.
- O'Toole, Joe.
- Ross, Shane P.N.
- Ryan, Brendan.
Níl
- Bohan, Edward Joseph.
- Byrne, Seán.
- Cassidy, Donie.
- Cullimore, Séamus.
- de Buitleár, Eamon.
- Doherty, Michael.
- Eogan, George.
- Fitzgerald, Tom.
- Fitzsimons, Jack.
- Haughey, Seán F.
- Hillery, Brian.
- Kiely, Rory.
- Lanigan, Mick.
- McEllistrim, Tom.
- McGowan, Patrick.
- McKenna, Tony.
- Mooney, Paschal.
- Mullooly, Brian.
- O'Callaghan, Vivian.
- O'Connell, John.
- O'Connor, Nicholas.
- O'Toole, Martin J.
- Ryan, William.
Tellers: Tá, Senators Ross and Murphy; Níl, Senators W. Ryan and S. Haughey.
Amendment declared lost.
Order of Business agreed to.