It is proposed that we take Items Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 4 today. It is proposed that Item No. 2 be taken until 5.30 p.m. or earlier if the debate is concluded, that Item No. 4 be taken between 5.30 p.m. and 6.30 p.m. and that the remainder of Item No. 3 be taken at 6.30 p.m.
Order of Business.
May I ask that in future when a report of major public importance is issued it be issued to all Members of the Oireachtas and not just to one House, as happened yesterday. I would like to ask the Leader of the House two very simple questions. Could he today, as promised in the past, give us an up-date on upcoming legislation. This was promised before; we need to know what legislation to expect this session and when.
On the Order of Business I should also like to refer to Item No. 6, the debate on Anglo-Irish relations. I will not rehearse one more time the reasons this debate is both timely and necessary. I am asking the Leader of the House whether on foot of the many requests and the assurances given by him he can now give us a definite time and date for this debate.
To reiterate what obviously fell on deaf ears last week, the need to have outlined for us a programme of legislation which would take us through this term, I would like to ask the Leader of the House whether he now accepts that the Leader of the Lower House scooped the pot when it came to legislation this term and that he has failed miserably to provide us with legislation initiated in this House for this term. He is quite likely to bring this House into disrepute and to make it irrelevant if he does not bring before us some reasonable volume of work to keep us going from now until Christmas.
I would also like to bring to the attention of the House the dog-in-the-manger attitude of the Leader of the House. Even though he cannot provide us with fresh legislation from Government he ignores the fact that there is a fair amount of legislation on the Order Paper; I refer specifically to Item No. 9 on the Order Paper, the Housing (Homeless Persons) Bill, 1987, Item No. 10, the Criminal Justice (Abolition of Death Penalty) Bill, 1987, Item No. 11, the Nuclear Free Zone Bill, 1988, and Item No. 12, the Extradition (European Convention on the Suppression of Terrorism) (Amendment) (No. 2) Bill, 1987. Those Bills, in the names of Senator B. Ryan, Senator Ross, Senator Norris and the rest of the Independent Senators, have been lying there for some time. Could he tell us why, if the Government are not prepared to bring forward legislation of their own, they will not deal with and dispose of important items of legislation which have been on the Order Paper for months?
Finally, I would also like to refer to the numerous reports and other business that are still on the Order Paper and to remind the Leader of the House once again of the various commitments he gave over different periods of time to deal with these on Thursdays, Tuesdays or on days other than Wednesdays. This has been raised by people on both sides of the House and it has certainly been referred to by Senator McGowan on a number of occasions in the past number of months.
May I also please appeal to the Leader of the House through you, a Chathaoirligh, not to stand up and tell us that we worked very hard this year because we were all of X number of days in session. That is of no relevance to the future.
You have made your point, Senator.
I ask the Leader of the House to respond in a very frank and open fashion to the question I have put to him.
I would like to share the concern that has been expressed about the apparent lack of legislation. I think it is very much regretted on all sides of the House, particularly in the light of the fact that in the last year the Seanad was paid the compliment of being the Chamber into which on a number of occasions, legislation was introduced first of all.
Senator Norris, are we having repetition? Senator O'Toole has made an excellent case. I hate repetition.
I had actually noticed this trait in your character, a Chathaoirligh, and it is one to which I will, of course, defer. I do want to place on record my support——
You have said that, Senator. Do not go off again.
I would like to give an instance, if I may, to illustrate what I mean and that is the Planning Bill which is going first to the Dáil despite the fact that a number of us had placed quite important resolutions on the Order Paper and invited the Government over a long period to introduce the Bill in the Seanad. It is precisely the kind of legislation that it would be appropriate to have taken first in this House. I am sure the Cathaoirleach will agree with me that because this is the senior House and because it is a House in which there should be expert examination of legislation, it is important that we are given notice so that we can prepare ourselves.
I would like to ask one specific question of the Cathaoirleach. I inquired last week whether it would be possible for a group of Senators to inspect the work that is going on in the Seanad Chamber next door. You did, of course, give a progress report — for which we are grateful — but I did not actually get an answer as to whether it would be possible or useful——
That is possible. Not alone can you bring in the group but I will bring you in. I will accompany you.
I am most grateful. Thank you very much, a Chathaoirligh.
I would like to volunteer for that group as well. I hope the same conditions apply to me.
Snow White and the seven——
I would like to say, without being repetitious, that the Seanad is limping into some sort of irrelevant obscurity at the moment and the reason is quite simple. Not only are we getting no legislation, we are getting no programme of legislation. None of us knows what is coming up between now and Christmas. We do not know what is coming out of the Dáil and we do not know what is coming to us first of all. I would plead with the Leader of the House to give the following assurances to us on the Order of Business today. When can we have a debate on Anglo-Irish relations and if we are not going to have it for God's sake tell us we are not going to have it. Secondly, what legislation does he propose to bring before this House and will he tell us in advance? It is as simple as that.
Before I call on the Leader of the House to reply, I have been in the Seanad for quite a few years now: I may be a few years ahead of Senator Ross, I am not too sure. I do not ever remember legislation being laid out for us weeks ahead. I agree with Senators knowing what is coming up but if the Senator is asking for legislation that might come before us in three week's time or in a month's time, that is not on.
I am not asking for that. What I would like is to have some indication. There are 20 Bills in the Dáil. I would like to know whether we are going to get one or none before Christmas, some indication of what we are going to get.
Before I call on Senator Lanigan, I wish that the nice relationship that existed between the Whips, when they would talk to each other and understand where each was going with legislation would continue rather than having this discussion on the floor of the Chamber every Wednesday.
If we have as long to wait for the next Bill as we had for the last it certainly will be a long time.
Senator Manning was quite right when he suggested that there was a lack of courtesy to this House in the fact that we did not get the report on the constituencies. The Minister rang my office this morning to apologise. It was not his fault. There was a mix-up in the administrative section. The report will be available to us today.
There is no point in my saying here today that I can give an outline of work for the coming session. It was never done before and, unfortunately, I cannot give an outline of work in advance of getting the programme of work from the other House. There is a lot of hot air on the Order of Business every day since this session began. This House has initiated more important work in the past session than was ever done before. Two of the most important Bills that have ever come before the Houses of the Oireachtas have been initiated in this House. Unfortunately because these pieces of legislation are now with the other House it is not possible for us to have new business as readily as we would like.
There are a number of Bills which will be introduced in this House in the next couple of weeks. One Bill was completed in the other House this morning, the Irish Sailors and Soldiers Land Trust Bill. There will be a Bill on pollution coming in within the next two weeks and it will probably be ordered next week. However, it has to be said that because the Dáil gave priority to a Bill by Deputy Alan Shatter, which I am sure many people in this House would wish to discuss, quite a number of hours will be taken up on that Bill and that, again, is pushing back the volume of legislation we can get from the other House.
There is no point in Senators getting up here week after week criticising. We have got a fair crack of the whip on new legislation, better than ever before. The Government have given a commitment that we will have work coming forward on a regular basis from now on, but at this stage there is a block because of the fact that we have the Insurance Bill, the Companies Bill and Deputy Alan Shatter's Bill which is coming in next week. We have been working extremely hard to try to have as much business as possible for the House but it is the Government's prerogative to give us business in whichever order they decide. We are doing well. All I can guarantee is that as soon as business comes it will be brought before you. On the question of Items Nos. 9, 10, 11 and 12, just because somebody puts down a Private Members' motion here does not mean that the Government are going to give them time. Just because somebody decides he wants to bring a Bill before this House does not mean that it is going to be taken by the Government. I cannot give any guarantee that Items Nos. 9, 10, 11 and 12 will be taken in this House. Government business will take priority over Private Members' business at all times. On Item No. 6 which was queried by Senator Manning, as soon as the Government decide when we should discuss that I will introduce the motion to the House.
The Leader of the House leaves me no option whatsoever. He simply is not fighting for the rights of this House. What he has brought before us is a disgrace. He promised us a debate on Anglo-Irish relations but he has refused to give us that.
Is the Order of Business agreed?
Most emphatically, the Order of Business is not agreed.
I am putting the question: "That the Order of Business be Items Nos. 1, 2, 3 and 4".
Question put.
The Seanad divided: Tá, 29; Níl, 20.
Tá
- Bohan, Edward Joseph.
- Byrne, Seán.
- Cassidy, Donie.
- Cullimore, Séamus.
- Doherty, Michael.
- Eogan, George.
- Fallon, Seán.
- Farrell, Willie.
- Fitzgerald, Tom.
- Fitzsimons, Jack.
- Haughey, Seán F.
- Hillery, Brian.
- Hussey, Thomas.
- Kiely, Dan.
- Kiely, Rory.
- Lanigan, Mick.
- Lydon, Donal.
- McEllistrim, Tom.
- McGowan, Patrick.
- McKenna, Tony.
- Mooney, Pascal.
- Mullooly, Brian.
- Mulroy, Jimmy.
- O'Callaghan, Vivian.
- O'Connell, John.
- Ó Conchubhair, Nioclás.
- O'Toole, Martin J.
- Ryan, William.
- Wallace, Mary.
Níl
- Bradford, Paul.
- Bulbulia, Katharine.
- Connor, John.
- Cregan, Denis.
- Doyle, Joe.
- Fennell, Nuala.
- Ferris, Michael.
- Harte, John.
- Hogan, Philip.
- Kelleher, Peter.
- Kennedy, Patrick.
- Loughrey, Joachim.
- McCormack, Padraic.
- Manning, Maurice.
- Norris, David.
- O'Shea, Brian.
- O'Toole, Joe.
- Reynolds, Gerry.
- Ross, Shane P.N.
- Ryan, Brendan.
Tellers: Tá, Senators W. Ryan and S. Haughey; Níl, Senators Cregan and G. Reynolds.
Question declared carried.
Order of Business agreed to.