asked the Minister for Local Government if he is aware that South Tipperary County Council cannot proceed with building schemes already contracted for because of lack of money; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - South Tipperary Housing.
11.
I have allocated a total of £865,000 to Tipperary (SR) County Council for their local authority housing programme in 1975 enabling the housing authority to incur total authorised expenditure of £905,000 in the year. The total allocation includes an increase of £465,000 on the amount originally allocated in February, 1975, and compares with issues of £314,000 on foot of the allocation for the nine months ended 31st December, 1974.
I have received a request for additional funds from the housing authority and this is under consideration in conjunction with all other similar claims received. I have also asked housing authorities for up-to-date information on the extent of actual and anticipated expenditure on local authority housing this year, which is being examined at present. The information submitted will determine the extent of additional funds by way of savings in some areas which may be available to me for reallocation.
Can the Minister give some indication of the sections within the Department in which he expects to make savings?
This is an extension of the question.
The matter was introduced by the Minister in his reply.
That may be so, but it is not included in the question on the Order Paper.
I could give Deputy Lalor details of the amount of money made available for housing in Tipperary South Riding during a period of years.
The Minister has not been asked for any such information but no doubt he will insist on giving it.
It would be good that Deputy Lalor should hear those details. In 1970-71, the figure was £102.500; in 1971-72 it was £142,250; in 1972-73, the first year I had anything to do with it, the amount was £434,200; in 1973-74 it was £509,500 and in the nine months for 1974 it was £314,600, while this year the sum is £865,000. Despite this I am asked why more money was not provided in this area.
(Dublin Central): If one takes inflation rates into account, he will realise that the increases have been very small.
Is the Minister saying that he was in office in 1972-73?
I referred to the 1973 year. The amount given was in respect of the year 1973-74.
The Minister has told us that more than £434,000 was given in 1972-73. Deputy Molloy was in office then.
I should hate to take responsibility for anything that occurred during Deputy Molloy's term in office.
Since the Minister is so liberal with his answers today perhaps he would indicate whether he is concerned with the huge increase in the rates in Tipperary as well as in every other county compared with what was the situation during the term of office of his predecessor?
Question No. 12.
I have shown such concern that the rates in Tipperary have been reduced by more than £2 in the £. In other words, had there not been a change in Government, ratepayers in Tipperary would be paying £2 in the £ more than they are paying.
How crazy one can become.
I wonder if we might have an arrangement in this House whereby Ministers would be prevented from telling lies?
Members must not attribute to any Member the telling of lies.
A deliberate untruth, then.
The Minister has stated categorically that if he were not in office the rates in Tipperary would be £2 in the £ more than they are.
The matter of rates is not relevant to this question.
Is the Minister not aware that we had decided to remove rates entirely from dwelling houses? If we were in office the unfortunate ratepayers would not be faced with the colossal demands that are being made on them.
(Interruptions.)
Order.
In view of the record of the people opposite I never thought that I would again hear them accuse me of telling lies in this House.
In Mayo there is a rate of £13.50 in the £.
The Minister is not in order in stating that if Fianna Fáil were in office the rates would be higher than they are.
They would be £2 in the £ greater.
The Minister must not say this.
Grimm's fairy tales.
Would Deputies please restrain themselves and allow questions to continue?
All right but I withdraw nothing.
Deputy Lalor states I was telling lies and he says that he will not withdraw that accusation. I want to make it very clear, since he is not man enough to do so, that as far as I am concerned I have not been found out telling lies in this House and, when Members on the opposite benches can stand up and say the same, only then may Deputy Lalor make that allegation.
I have already said that it is disorderly for any Member to attribute a lie to another and, if that has been done, it must be withdrawn.
I want to make it clear, and it can be checked on the record, that I asked the Ceann Comhairle to arrange that no Minister would tell a lie in this House. That is what I said.
I have given a statement of fact and it was always the practice in this House that, when a Minister made a statement of fact, it was accepted by the Opposition. If the Opposition want to make new rules now about these matters then they will have to go elsewhere, but I will not change the statement I made because it is factual.
I trust Deputy Lalor is not trying to get around the ruling of the Chair. A lie is a lie and nothing will ever make it lawful.
I accept that and I apologise to the Chair if I said categorically that anybody is a liar. What I did say was that the Minister has no right to make a statement here on the supposition that, if Fianna Fáil were in power, the rates would be £2 in the £ greater than they are at present. That is not a statement of fact.
As a matter of fact it could be £4 in some cases.
I agree.
Deputy Lalor agrees.