It is proposed to take Nos. 2, 7 and 8. Private Members' Business shall be No. 17.
Order of Business.
On the Order of Business, may I ask the Taoiseach if it is his intention as part of the Government's information campaign in relation to the referendum on the Single European Act to engage in advertising in the public newspapers in addition to the dissemination of information through other channels?
Yes, that is intended.
A Cheann Comhairle, you will be aware from correspondence we had during the course of the morning, correspondence which I directed to the Taoiseach, that I wish to move a motion under Standing Order 30 prior to agreeing the Order of Business. I wish to do so because of the public disquiet at the shortage of funds which have been allocated to the Department of Health and because it is now estimated that over 3,500 jobs will be lost in the health services. As the health boards have no choice in the matter at this stage we need to discuss the question in this House as a matter of urgency, especially considering that three, if not four, Deputies on the Fianna Fáil side have already objected——
The Deputy may not embark on a speech at this stage.
I hope to do so, Sir, some time during the course of this day, with your permission. I am asking the Taoiseach if, as is permitted under Standing Order No. 30, he will allow time for this House to discuss the serious position of the provisions for the health services. This is a serious matter. We have seen what has happened; we are seeing what is happening on a daily basis. Marches to this House are now threatened.
Is that not a matter which ordinarily should be discussed among the Whips?
I am afraid, as you are aware Sir, that that is not possible for us. As a meeting of the Whips is not referred to under Standing Order 30 I am asking the Taoiseach if he will provide as a matter or urgency an extended sitting of this House this evening and tomorrow evening, if necessary, or on Thursday. Given the nature of business on Thursday I believe that as a matter of priority we should discuss the Estimates for the Department of Health and how the Government intend to follow through with the shortfall in the provision of funds for the rest of this year. I ask the Taoiseach to agree to my request as a matter of urgency.
The trouble with the health services is that under the Administration of which Deputy Spring was a member——
Here we go again.
——and of which his colleague, Deputy Desmond, was Minister for Health——
(Interruptions.)
Order, please.
Manners. The difficulty is that in both 1985 and 1986 excesses of expenditure amounting to £55 million accumulated.
(Interruptions.)
The health boards were controlled by Fianna Fáil and encouraged by them.
——£55 million cuts in 1987——
A question has been asked. Will Deputies listen to the reply?
——£55 million which had to be taken on board this year——
No. It was to be for three or four years.
——as a result of which, in order to keep the health services in existence at all this Government had to apply cutbacks, restrictions and limitations.
On a point of order——
I want to make it clear to this House — let me finish.
Would you please hear the Taoiseach out?
Let me make it clear to the House that the allocations made are the maximum that can be made and they have to be adhered to.
On a point of order, since the Taoiseach is now making a speech on the matter I must conclude that we are now having a debate.
No. I asked the House to listen to the reply.
With respect, Sir, I am still asking if the Taoiseach will accede to my request. I am requesting that the House should sit this evening for two extra hours and again tomorrow evening or, if necessary, that business should be changed on Thursday of this week to enable us to discuss this matter. It must be of fundamental concern, not only to all on the Opposition side of the House; the Taoiseach's own Deputies are refusing to agree to the cuts down the country.
I am afraid you cannot go on to debate this matter today.
I am asking for a reply to my question.
I have no control over replies. Deputy Allen has offered.
Could I repeat my request made on Thursday last for an emergency debate on the health services question?
That is the same subject matter. I call Deputy O'Malley.
The health services are in crisis and we are doing nothing in this House, which is where we should be making the decisions.
I call Deputy O'Malley.
The Taoiseach has made a speech and we have a right to reply. You allowed him to make a political point.
There is no motion before this House——
You allowed the Taoiseach to make a speech and we have a right to reply.
——consequently there can be no debate. Deputy Allen, please. I call Deputy O'Malley.
On a point of order, I seek clarification. You say that there is no motion before this House. Standing Order No. 30 surely provides that where notice has been given to the Taoiseach and to yourself, which was done in letter form this morning, a motion could be taken as of now.
Deputy Spring moved the motion.
Under Standing Order No. 30, as I read it and as I understand it, the Taoiseach——
The Deputy is clearly seeking Government time, is he not?
I am seeking extra time, our time, in this House. Would you clarify that I am not being ruled out of order because there is nothing on the Order Paper?
This is a specific and important matter of public interest.
(Interruptions.)
Standing Order No. 30 states:
A motion for the adjournment of the Dáil on a specific and important matter of public interest——
That sounds like the health services.
——requiring urgent consideration may be made, if a member, who has given notice to the Ceann Comhairle before the opening of the sitting, rises in his place at the commencement of public business and states that he requests leave to move the adjournment of the Dáil for the purpose of discussing a specific and important matter of public interest requiring urgent consideration, whereupon he shall state the matter.
I received no such notice.
Physically? I presumed that I had done so. I applied under Standing Order No. 30.
That is not good enough. I call Deputy Des O'Malley.
Why are you sitting?
(Interruptions.)
Is the Taoiseach aware of the widespread public disquiet, fear and apprehension which exist now that certain basic services will not be available to people who are in grave medical need of them? Would he not avail of the opportunity in this House to enable the Minister for Health to explain the reality of the situation and try to overcome the rather emotive state into which the whole matter has descended now? A tremendous number of people throughout the country are very genuinely and seriously concerned about this. Could Government guidelines be laid down?
Please, Deputy O'Malley, I cannot allow a debate on this subject now. Members will have to find some other ways and means of raising this matter other than on the Order of Business.
This is irrelevant. The health services are in crisis, people are being thrown out of hospital and we want a debate.
This is what that Standing Order is for.
Deputy Spring was on his feet.
Would the Ceann Comhairle please clarify something for me? That is, that sometime before 1 p.m. today I directed a letter to the Taoiseach, I sent copies to the Leaders of the parties here on my left and I sent a copy to your office. Would you clarify for me whether from now on the procedure is that I have to give physically to yourself such a letter rather than send it to your office, so that you will deem that you have had notice? That letter was sent to you at 1 p.m.
The Chair requires reasonable notice of these matters. This was raised only within the last few minutes. It is not good enough.
On a point of order, the letter which I received from Deputy Spring simply states that he will be seeking this request on the Order of Business today. As I take it, Deputy Spring is seeking Government time for a debate. I have indicated that I am not prepared to give Government time. It is the Government's duty to order the business of the House and I have done so.
I must proceed to other business.
Before you proceed, I put down a Private Notice Question to ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he would make representations, through the Anglo-Irish Conference, to establish the precise circumstances of the shooting in Loughgall last Friday night. You have declined my request for the Private Notice Question. I wish to give notice that I want to raise the matter on the Adjournment.
I shall communicate with the Deputy.
You have not allowed a general debate in relation to the health services. I want to raise on the Adjournment of the House tonight the staffing situation at the Mount Carmel Hospital in Clonakilty where an agreement entered into by the last Minister for Health and the Southern Health Board to improve staffing on a phased basis during 1987 is being reneged on by the present Minister.
I shall communicate with the Deputy. I call Deputy Barrett.
He was not even standing.
I was. A Ceann Comhairle, in your wisdom — and I am not questioning your judgment — you ruled out of order my Private Notice Question to ask the Minister for Justice if there were adequate Garda resources available to deal with the disorder which arose in Emyvale, County Monaghan, yesterday and if he will make a statement on the matter.
My ruling may not be questioned now.
I want to make a request. The point is that a funeral takes place tomorrow and this is a very serious matter. It is a matter of grave public concern that yesterday a garda's life was put at risk because of the lack of attendance of sufficient gardaí——
I have ruled on that question and I cannot allow my ruling to be questioned in the House.
I am sure the Minister for Justice, who is present now, would be anxious to make a statement on this matter. I ask the Taoiseach, in the light of the very serious situation that arose yesterday and of what could happen tomorrow, to consider giving Government time, even a quarter of an hour, to enable the Minister to come in today and give us an assurance——
The Deputy has ample time to raise that matter.
——that what happened yesterday will not happen tomorrow and that we are looking into the whole question of security in relation to this matter.
I call Deputy Avril Doyle.
I asked the Taoiseach a question and he is anxious to reply.
I made a ruling on that matter and the Deputy knows it.
The Taoiseach is anxious to reply.
I have no wish to interfere with your ruling on Private Notice Questions. I understand fully the anxieties that exist in the minds of Deputies about these matters. I would consider asking the Whips to discuss whether a statement by the Minister for Justice might be made on some suitable occasion. I would suggest in all the circumstances, in view of the sensitivity of the matter and the exacerbated feelings, that it might be confined just to a statement of the facts by the Minister for Justice. That is a matter that the Whips could discuss.
I ask that we would have an assurance that tomorrow there will be adequate presence of both the garda and members of the Defence Forces to see to it that we do not have a recurrence of what happened yesterday.
Deputy Doyle has been called.
Are we having the Minister's statement?
A Ceann Comhairle, with your permission——
Are we having the Minister's statement, a Cheann Comhairle?
I called Deputy Avril Doyle twice.
On a point of order, I would be anxious to assure the Taoiseach and the House that his suggestion will be taken up on this side of the House. We will certainly have the matter discussed between the Whips.
I should like the permission of the Chair to raise on the Adjournment the imminent closure of the 112-bed hospital at Brownswood in County Wexford and the 30 beds at Wexford General Hospital.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like permission to raise on the Adjournment the imminent closure of the Royal City of Dublin Hospital, Baggot Street, as a result of the cutbacks by this administration.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
In view of the fact that the Taoiseach's response to the request for time for discussion on the Justice area was so markedly different to his response to the request for time on an equally pressing matter, the serious damage to the health and wellbeing of thousands of people, will the Taoiseach be willing to indicate whether the Government are prepared to release funds from the proceeds of the national lottery to ease the position in the health area?
I should like permission to raise on the Adjournment the proposed closure of Monkstown Hospital in County Dublin arising from the health cuts.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
There is agreement between Deputies from the Dun Laoghaire constituency to the request by Deputy Kennedy. We attended meetings in connection with this matter and it was agreed that one of the local representatives would ask for time to discuss the issue.
I should like the permission of the Chair to raise on the Adjournment the withdrawal of surgical and medical services from Roscommon County Hospital and the threatened closure of that hospital and I should like to raise the failure of the Minister for Health to provide adequate funding for the Western Health Board.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
(Limerick East): I should like permission to raise on the Adjournment the lack of funds allocated to the Mid-Western Health Board which will lead to the closure of five hospitals in the area.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like permission to raise on the Adjournment the implications of budgetary constraints for the administration of services at the county hospital in Naas.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
Arising out of a statement by a senior official of the Department of Health when he addressed the Association of Health Boards in Rosslare last week to the effect that delegates present and the general public would have to accept that the best use of available money for the development of the health services is not being made——
Has the Deputy a question to put?
I have. That official said that this was not being met by keeping people alive for three months who are terminally ill and going to die in six weeks.
That does not arise on the Order of Business.
I would like to raise the implication of that statement on the Adjournment.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like to raise on the Adjournment the question of the inadequate funding to the North Eastern Health Board and its effect on the staffing position of Our Lady's Hospital, Navan, and St. Joseph's Hospital, Trim. The Taoiseach, and his Ministers, should remember that health cuts hurt the old, the sick and the handicapped. There is a better way of dealing with this matter and I should like to appeal to the Taoiseach to arrange to have a debate on this serious matter in the House.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like to raise on the Adjournment the closure of Nenagh General Hospital, St. Mary's District Hospital in Thurles and the part closure of the Hospital of the Assumption. I understand that those closures are not supported by the Minister for Agriculture and Food or the Minister with responsibility for Forestry.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I should like to raise on the Adjournment the proposed closure of three district hospitals in Clare, at Kilrush, Ennistymon and Raheen, the closure of the general hospital in Ennis and the closure of Cahercalla maternity unit.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
In an attempt to bring myself within the parameters of the Chair's interpretation of Standing Order No. 30, I should like to give notice that it is my intention to have a formal motion before the Chair to the Taoiseach asking that the business of the House be adjourned to enable us to discuss health matters which cannot possibly be taken under the normal Adjournment procedure.
I should like to repeat my request of Thursday last to the Government to allocate time to discuss the cuts in the health services. Will the Chair indicate the procedure to be followed for the information of the House?
I should like to ask the Taoiseach if it is the Government's intention to bring in the legislation promised by Fianna Fáil to revoke the 1983 legislation giving power to local authorities to levy charges.
I must move on to the next Deputy.
That legislation was promised and I have put a question to the Taoiseach which is appropriate on the Order of Business. I want to know when the Government propose to bring in the legislation.
That is not a matter for the Chair.
I have asked a question appropriate to the Order of Business. It is well accepted that when legislation is promised by the Government a Deputy may ask when that legislation will be brought forward. I am putting that question to the Taoiseach.
I have permitted the Deputy to ask the question on a few occasions but it is not a matter for the Chair to reply.
It is up to the Taoiseach to reply.
No such legislation has been promised by this Government.
I will send the Taoiseach a copy of what was promised.
(Interruptions.)
Another U-turn.
Deputy Taylor has some nerve.
Another three card trick.
It has occurred to me that in view of the wide scale closing of hospitals it might not be inappropriate for me to seek permission to raise on the Adjournment the question of the bringing forward of the opening of the new hospital in Cavan to cater for those closures.
I will communicate with the Deputy.