Dáil Éireann díospóireacht -
Wednesday, 1 Nov 1922

Vol. 1 No. 27

ELECTION OF THE SEANAD. - MOTIONS BY THE MINISTER FOR LOCAL GOVERNMENT.

Mr. ERNEST BLYTHE

I beg to move the following:—

DE BHRÍ go socruíonn Airtiogal 82 de Bhun-reacht Shaorstáit Eireann gur trí fichid ball a bheidh i gcéad Sheanad Eireann agus go dtoghfaidh Dáil Eireann deich nduine fichead díobh san le bhótáil do réir Ionaduíochta Chothromúla, agus gur gá go ndéanfai rialacha i gcóir an toghcháin sin do leaga amach.	WHEREAS it is provided by Article 82 of the Constitution of Soarstát Eireann that the first Seanad Eireann, shall consist of sixty members, of whom thirty shall be elected by Dáil Eireann voting on principles of Proportional Representation, and it is necessary that rules for the conduct of such election should be prescribed.
ANOIS AR AN ABHAR SAN beartuíonn an Dáil seo anso le có-rún gur do réir na rialacha so leanas a déanfar an toghchán roimh-ráite de bhaill chun chéad Sheanad Eireann (dá ngairmfear 'na dhiaidh seo “an toghchán”):—	NOW, THEREFORE, this Dáil doth hereby resolve that the aforesaid election of members to the first Seanad Eireann, hereinafter referred to as “the election,” shall be conducted in accordance with the following rules:—
CEANN COMHAIRIMH.	RETURNING OFFICER.
1. Isé Ceann Comhairle Dháil Eireann a bheidh mar Cheann Comhairimh chun críche an toghcháin.	1. The Ceann Comhairle of Dáil Eireann shall be the Returning Officer for the purpose of the election.
AINMNIÚCHÁN.	NOMINATION.
Tairgtheoir agus Cuiditheoir.	Proposer and Seconder.
2. Is i scríbhinn a ainmneofar iarrthóir chun toghcháin. Cuirfidh Teachta de Dháil Eireann a ainm leis an scríbhinn mar thairgtheoir agus cuirfidh Teachta eile a ainm leis mar chuiditheoir.	2. A candidate for election shall be nominated in writing. The writing shall be subscribed by a Deputy of Dáil Eireann, as proposer, and by another Deputy as seconder.
Páipéar ainmniúcháin go gcuirfidh Teachta de Dháil Eireann nár shigh nigh an Rolla a ainm leis, ní bheidh brí leis.	A nomination paper subscribed by a Deputy of Dáil Eireann who has not signed the Roll shall be invalid.
Fuirm an Pháipéir Ainmniúcháin.	Form of Nomination Paper.
3. Ainmneofar gach iarrthóir le páipéar ainmniúcháin fé leith, agus is sa bhfuirm atá i gCuid II. den Liost a ghabhann leis seo a bheidh an páipéar ainmniúcháin, agus beidh an t-eolas riachtanach sa bhfuirm sin.	3. Each candidate shall be nominated by a separate nomination paper, and the nomination paper shall be in the form set out in Part II. of the Schedule hereto, and shall contain the particulars required thereby.
Páipéirí Ainmniúcháin do thabhairt amach.	Issue of Nomination Papers.
4. Féachfaidh an Ceann Comhairimh chuige go dtabharfar páipéirí ainmniúcháin d'aon Teachta de Dháil Eireann go dteastóid uaidh le linn an tamail a thosnóidh nuair a glacfar leis na có-rúin seo agus a chríochnóidh ar a 12 a chlog, meadhon lae, an lá thiocfaidh Bun-reacht Shaorstáit Eireann i bhfeidhm, agus gairmtear anso don tamal san “am an toghcháin.”	4. The Returning Officer shall cause nomination papers to be supplied to any Deputy of Dáil Eireann requiring the same during the period commencing at the time of the passing of these resolutions and ending at 12 o'clock noon on the day of the coming into force of the Constitution of Saorstát Eireann which period is herein referred to as the “time for election.”
Páipéirí Ainmniúcháin do thabhairt isteach.	Delivery of Nomination Papers.
5. Tabharfaidh an tairgtheoir no an cuiditheoir na páipéirí ainmniúcháin don Cheann Comhairimh i rith ama an toghcháin, le linn na n-uaireanta agus ag na háiteanna san ar a socróidh an Ceann Comhairimh, ach ní tabharfar do iad tar éis deire ama an toghcháin.	5. Nomination papers shall be delivered to the Returning Officer by the proposer or seconder during such hours, and at such places, during the time for election, as the Returning Officer may fix, but not after the expiration of the time for election.
Ainmniúcháin gan bhrí.	Invalid Nomination.
6. Féadfaidh an Ceann Comhairimh le linn an tabhartha isteach diúlta d'aon pháipéar ainmniúcháin a bheidh gan bhrí, toisc gan an t-eolas riachtanach do bheith ann, no toisc gurb é a intinn ainmniúchán do dhéanamh ar dhuine ag ná fuil an cháilíocht is gá chun é do thogha mar sheanadóir, no ar dhuine go gcuireann an Bunreacht no an dlí fé mhí-ábaltacht no mhí-chumas é, agus, chun gach críche, ní bheidh dul thar breith an Chinn Chomhairimh i dtaobh brí do bheith le páipéar ainmniúcháin no gan a bheith.	6. The Returning Officer may, at the time of delivery, reject as invalid any nomination paper which does not contain the required particulars, or which purports to nominate a person who is not qualified to be elected as a senator, or who is placed under disability or incapacity by the Constitution or by law, and the decision of the Returning Officer, that a nomination paper is valid or is invalid, shall be final for all purposes.
7. Chó luath agus is féidir é tar éis páipéar ainmniúcháin le n-a bhfuil brí d'fháil, féachfaidh an Ceann Comhairimh chuige go gcuirfear fógra den ainmniúchán san go dtí gach Teachta de Dháil Eireann ag a bhfuil an Rolla sighnithe. Beidh ar an bhfógra san, ainm agus sloinne an duine d'ainmnigheadh, a sheola, a cheárd no a shlí bheatha, agus cur síos ar sheirbhís phuiblí úsáideach an duine sin no ar a cháilíocht speisialta maidir le tréithe táchtacha de shaol an náisiúin.	7. As soon as practicable, after receiving a valid nomination paper, the Returning Officer shall cause a notice of such nomination to be issued to each Deputy of Dáil Eireann who has signed the Roll. Such notice shall contain the name in full of the person nominated, his address, profession or occupation, and a statement of such person's useful public service or special qualifications in reference to important aspects of the Nation's life.
BHÓTÁIL.	VOTING.
8. Is le ballóid shicréideach a déanfar an bhótáil.	8. The voting shall be by secret ballot.
Páipéar Ballóide.	Ballot Paper.
9. Is sa bhfuirm atá i gCuid II. den Liost a ghabhann leis seo a bheidh an páipéar bhótála, agus is ar órdú aibítre a cuirfear ainmneacha na n-iarrthóirí do hainmnigheadh.	9. The voting paper shall be in the form set out in Part II. of the Schedule hereto, and the names of candidates nominated shall be arranged in alphabetical order.
Am chun Bhótála.	Time for Voting.
10. Beidh an Bhótáil ar siubhal ag an gcéad chruinniú a bheidh ann de Dháil Eireann tar éis deire ama an toghcháin.	10. The voting shall take place at the first meeting of Dáil Eireann held after the expiration of the “time for election.”
11. Chó luath agus is féidir é tar éis tosnuithe an chruinnithe sin féachfaidh an Cheann Comhairimh chuige go ndéanfar páipéirí bhótala atá sa bhfuirm do ceapadh agus in a bhfuil an t-eolas riachtanach, do thabhairt do Theachtaí ag a bhfuil an Rolla sighnithe agus a bheidh láithreach ag an gcruinniú san.	11. As soon as may be, after the commencement of such meeting, the Returning Officer shall cause to be distributed to Deputies who shall have signed the Roll, and who shall be in attendance at such meeting, voting papers in the prescribed form and containing the required particulars.
Páipéirí Loitithe.	Spoilt Papers.
12. Aon Teachta a loitfidh páipéar bhótála féadfa sé é do thabhairt don Cheann Comhairimh agus páipéar bhótála eile d'fháil.	12. Any Deputy who may inadvertently spoil a voting paper may deliver it to the Returning Officer and obtain another voting paper.
13. Tabharfaidh gach Teachta a pháipéar bhótála don Cheann Comhairimh le linn an Dáil do chur ar ath-ló no roimhe.	13. At or before the adjournment of the Dáil, each Deputy shall deliver his voting paper to the Returning Officer.
COMHAIREAMH NA BHÓTANNA.	COUNTING THE VOTES.
14. Díreach tar éis an Dáil do chur ar ath-ló, féachfaidh an Ceann Comhairimh chuige go gcoimhreofar na páipéirí bhótála agus go socrófar tora an toghcháin do réir na rialacha atá i gCuid I den Liost a ghabhann leis seo.	14. Immediately after the adjournment of the Dáil, the Returning Officer shall cause the voting papers to be counted and the result of the election determined in accordance with the rules contained in Part I. of the Schedule hereto.
FÓGAIRT NA dTORANNA.	DECLARATION OF RESULTS.
Tora.	Results.
15. Fógróidh an Ceann Comhairimh tora an toghcháin agus chuige sin inneosaidh sé do Dháil Eireann ainmneacha na ndaoine do toghadh agus an t-órdú inar toghadh iad. Féachfa sé chuige leis go gcuirfear in áit oiriúnach éigin faisnéis ar a mbeidh an t-eolas riachtanach do réir Rialach 12 de Chuid I den Liost a ghabhann leis seo,	15. The Returning Officer shall give notice of the result of the election by declaring to the Dáil the names of the persons elected and the order of their election. He shall also cause to be displayed in some convenient place a statement giving particulars required by Rule 12 in Part I. of the Schedule hereto.
16. Féadfar na Có-rúin um Thoghchán an Chéad Sheanaid, 1922, do ghairm do sna Có-rúin seo.	16. These resolutions may be cited as the first Senate Election Resolutions, 1922.
LIOST.	SCHEDULE.
CUID I.	PART I.
1. Is do réir na rialacha so leanas a déanfar an toghchán.	1. The election shall be conducted in accordance with the following Rules:—
Slí Bhótála.	Method of Voting.
2. (1) Aon bhóta ion-aistrithe amháin a bheidh ag gach toghthóir.	2. (1) Every elector shall have one transferable vote.
(2) Le linn do thoghthóir a bhóta do thabhairt:—	(2) An elector in giving his vote—
(a) caithfe sé an figiúir I do chur ar a pháipéar bhótála os coinne ainme an iarrthóra go bhótálann sé leis;	(a) must place on his voting paper the figure I opposite the name of the candidate for whom he votes;
(b) Féadfa sé 'na theanta san an figiúir 2 no na figiúrí 2 agus 3, no 2, 3, agus 4 agus mar sin de, do chur ar a pháipéar bhótála os coinne ainmneacha na n-iarrthóirí eile in órdú a rogha.	(b) may in addition place on his voting paper the figure 2 or the figures 2 and 3, or 2, 3, and 4, and so on opposite the names of the other candidates in the order of his preference.
3. Siad na fuirmeacha atá i gCuid II. den Liost so, no fuirmeacha den tsórt chéanna a úsáidfear chun na críche atá curtha síos 'na gcóir go n-abartar gur chúiche iad.	3. The forms contained in Part II. of this Schedule, or forms to the like effect, shall be used for the purposes to which they are expressed to be applicable.
Páipéirí Bhótála gan bhrí.	Invalid Voting Papers.
4. Ní comhaireófar páipéar bhótála ná ní bheidh brí leis—	4. A voting paper shall be invalid and not counted—
(a) ar ná cuirfear an figiúir I 'na aonar chun céad rogha d'iarrthóir amháin éigin do theasbáint; no	(a) on which the figure 1 standing alone, indicating a first preference for some one candidate, is not placed; or
(b) ar a gcuirfear, os coinne níos mó ná ainm aon iarrthóra amháin, an figiúir 1 'na aonar chun céad rogha do theasbáint; no	(b) on which the figure 1 standing alone, indicating a first preference is set opposite the name of more than one candidate; or
(c) ar a gcuirfear, os coinne ainme an iarrthóra chéanna, an figiúir 1 'na aonar chun céad rogha do theasbáint agus figiúir éigin eile 'na theanta; no	(c) on which the figure 1 standing alone indicating a first preference and some other number is set opposite the name of the same candidate; or
(d) atá gan marc air, no gan éifeacht toisc dabhata.	(d) which is unmarked, or void for uncertainty.
Socrú agus comhaireamh Páipéirí Bhótála	Arrangement and counting of Voting Papers.
5. (1) Diúltóidh an Ceann Comhairimh d'aon pháipéirí bhótála atá gan bhrí. Gheobhaidh an Ceann Comhairimh amach ansan an uimhir de chéad roghanna do breacadh do gach iarrthóir ar na páipéirí bhótála, agus cuirfe sé ansan na hiarrthóirí ar Liost (dá ngairmfear 'na dhiaidh seo an t-Ordú Rogha) in órdú uimhir na gcéad roghanna do breacadh do gach iarrthóir, agus an t-iarrthóir gur breacadh an uimhir is mó de chéad roghanna dho i dtosach. Má's có-ionann an uimhir de chéad roghanna do breacadh d'aon bheirt no do níos mó iarrthóirí (dá ngairmfear 'na dhiaidh seo iarrthóirí chó-ionannacha) gheobhaidh an Ceann Comhairimh amach na dara roghanna do breacadh do gach iarrthóir có-ionannach ar na páipéirí bhótála uile agus cuirfe sé san Ordú Rogha 'na measg féin na hiarrthóirí có-ionannacha in órdú na Dara Roghanna do breacadh do gach iarrthóir díobh san, agus an t-iarrthóir gur breacadh an uimhir is mó de Dhara Roghanna dho i dtosach. Má's có-ionann an uimhir de chéad roghanna is de dhara roghanna do breacadh d'aon bheirt no do níos mó d'iarrthóirí có-ionannacha, gheobhaidh an Ceann Comhairimh amach sa chuma chéanna uimhir na dtreas roghanna do breacadh do gach iarrthóir có-ionannach díobh san ar na páipéirí bhótála uile, agus socróidh sé na hiarrthóirí sin san Ordú Rogha dá réir, agus mar sin de, chun go mbeidh na hiarrthóirí uile curtha in órdú san Ordú Rogha. Má's có-ionann Céad Roghanna, Dara Roghanna, Treas Roghanna agus na roghanna eile go léir do breacadh d'aon bheirt no do níos mó iarrthóirí có-ionannacha, socróidh an Ceann Comhairimh le crann-chur an t-órdú 'na gcuirfear na hiarrthóirí sin san Ordú Rogha.	5. (1) The Returning Officer shall reject any voting papers that are invalid. The Returning Officer shall then ascertain the number of First Preferences recorded on the voting papers for each candidate, and shall then arrange the candidates on a list (hereinafter called “the Order of Preferences”) in the order of the number of First Preferences recorded for each candidate, beginning with the candidate for whom the greatest number of First Preferences are recorded. If the number of First Preferences recorded for any two or more candidates (hereinafter called “equal candidates”) is equal, the Returning Officer shall ascertain the number of Second Preferences recorded on all the voting papers for each of the equal candidates, and shall arrange the equal candidates as amongst themselves on the Order of Preferences in the order of the Second Preferences recorded for each such candidate, beginning with the candidate for whom the greatest number of Second Preferences is recorded. If the number of First and Second Preferences recorded for any two or more equal candidates is equal, the `Returning Officer shall, in like manner, ascertain the number of Third Preferences recorded on all the voting papers for each of such equal candidates, and arrange such candidates on the Order of Preferences accordingly, and so on until all the candidates are arranged in order on the Order of Preferences. If the number of First, Second, Third, and all other preferences recorded for any two or more equal candidates is equal the Returning Officer shall determine by lot the order in which such candidates are to be arranged on the Order of Preferences.
Déanfaidh an Ceann Comhairimh ansan na páipéirí bhótála le n-a bhfuil brí do shocrú i mbeartanna do réir na gcéad roghanna do breacadh do gach iarrthóir.	The Returning Officer shall then cause the valid voting papers to be arranged in parcels, according to the first preferences recorded for each candidate.
(2) Chun gur bhfusa do dhéanfaí an obair a leagann na rialacha so amach, tuigfear gur fiú 1000 gach páipéar bhótála le n-a bhfuil brí.	(2) For the purpose of facilitating the processes prescribed by these Rules, each valid voting paper shall be deemed to be of the value of one thousand.
(3) Déanfaidh an Ceann Comhairimh an uimhir pháipéar atá i ngach beart do chomhaireamh, agus do réir fo-ailt (2) den Riail seo cuirfe sé i leith gach iarrthóra éifeacht na bpáipéar le n-a bhfuil brí agus ar ar breacadh céad rogha don iarrthóir sin.	(3) The Returning Officer shall count the number of papers in each parcel, and in accordance with sub-section (2) of this Rule credit each candidate with the value of the valid papers on which a first preference has been recorded for such candidate.
An quota d'fháil amach.	Ascertainment of quota.
6. Ansan cuirfidh an Ceann Comhairimh éifeachtaí na mbeart go léir le chéile agus déanfar ranna den uimhir iomlán le huimhir a bheidh aon thar an uimhir fhollumhatas atá le líona. Isí an uimhir a bheidh aon thar tora na roinne sin, ach gan iarsma briste do bhac, an uimhir is leor chun iarrthóir do thogha. An “quota” a tugtar ar an uimhir sin anso.	6. The Returning Officer shall then add together the values in all the parcels and divide the full total value by a number exceeding by one the number of vacancies to be filled. The result increased by one, any fractional remainder being disregarded, shall be the number sufficient to secure the return of the candidate. This number is herein called the “quota.”
Tuigtear go dtoghtar Iarrathóirí ag a bhfuil quota.	Candidates with quota deemed elected.
7. Ar dheire aon chomhairimh no ar dheire aistriú aon bhirt no fhobhirt iarrthóra do cuireadh as, má's cóionann leis no má's mó ná an quota an éifeacht a cuirfear i leith aon iarrthóra, tuigfear gur toghadh an t-iarrthóir sin.	7. If at the end of any count or at the end of the transfer of any parcel or sub-parcel of an excluded candidate the value credited to a candidate is equal to or greater than the quota, that candidate shall be deemed to be elected.
8. (1) Ar dheire aon chomhairimh má's mó ná an quota an éifeacht a cuirfear i leith aon iarrthóra, aistreófar an fuighleach do réir choiníollacha na Rialach so go dtí an t-iarrthóir leanúnach no go dtí na n-iarrthóirí leanúnacha a teasbántar ar na páipéirí bhótála atá i mbeart no i bhfo-bheart an iarrthóra do toghadh, do réir na gcéad roghanna eile breacuithe ortha.	8. (1) If at the end of any count the value credited to a candidate is greater than the quota, the surplus shall be transferred in accordance with the provisions of this Rule to the continuing candidate or candidates indicated on the voting papers in the parcel or sub-parcel of the elected candidate, according to the next available preferences recorded thereon.
(2) (a) Má's as bun-bhótanna amháin a thagann an éifeacht a cuirtear i leith iarrthóra thogtha, scrúdóidh an Ceann Comhairimh na pápéirí uile atá i mbeart an iarrthóra thoghtha go bhfuiltear chun a fhuighleach d'aistriú, agus socróidh sé na páipéirí ion-aistrithe i bhfo-bheartanna do réir na gcéad roghanna eile atá breacuithe ortha agus déanfa sé fo-bheart fé leith de sna páipéirí neamh-aistrithe.	(2) (a) If the value credited to an elected candidate arises out of original votes only, the Returning Officer shall examine all the papers in the parcel of the elected candidate, whose surplus is to be transferred, and shall arrange the transferable papers in sub-parcels according to the next available preferences recorded thereon, and shall make a separate sub-parcel of the non-transferable papers.
(b) Má's as bun-bhótanna agus bhótanna aistrithe no as bhótanna aistrithe amháin a thagann an éifeacht a cuirtear i leith iarrthóra thoghtha, scrúdóidh an Ceann Comhairimh na páipéirí atá sa bhfo-bheart is déanaí fuair an t-iarrthóir toghtha, agus déanfa sé a thuille fo-bheartanna de sna páipéirí ionaistrithe atá ann do réir na gcéad roghanna eile atá breacuithe ortha, agus déanfa sé beart fé leith de sna páipéirí neamh-aistrithe.	(b) If the value credited to an elected candidate arises out of original and transferred votes, or of transferred votes only, the Returning Officer shall examine the papers contained in the sub-parcel last received by the elected candidate, and shall arrange the transferable papers therein in further sub-parcels according to the next available preferences recorded thereon and shall make a separate sub-parcel of the non-transferable papers.
(c) In aon de sna cásanna dá dtagartar i míreanna (a) agus (b) sá bhfo-alt so, gheobhaidh an Ceann Comhairimh amach uimhir agus éifeacht iomlán na bpáipéirí atá i ngach fo-bheart de pháipéirí ion-aistrithe agus i bhfobheart na bpáipéirí neamh-aistrithe.	(c) In either of the cases referred to in paragraphs (a) and (b) in this subsection, the Returning Officer shall ascertain the number of papers and their total value in each sub-parcel of transferable papers and in the subparcel of non-transferable papers.
(3) Má's có-ionann an fuighleach, no má's mó e ná éifeacht iomlán na bpáipéirí atá i bhfo-bheartanna na bpáipéirí ion-aistrithe, aistreóidh an Ceann Comhairimh gach fo-bheart de pháipéirí ion-aistrithe go dtí an t-iarrthóir leanúnach atá teasbánta ortha ag an bhótalaí mar a chéad rogha eile ar fáil, agus sé éifeacht gach páipéir le linn aistrithe ná an éifeacht do bhí leis nuair do tugadh é don iarrthóir go bhfuiltear ag aistriú a fhuighligh.	(3) If the surplus is equal to or greater than the total value of the papers in the sub-parcels of transferable papers the Returning Officer shall transfer each sub-parcel of transferable papers to the continuing candidate indicated thereon as the voter's next available preference, each paper being transferred at the value at which it was received by the candidate whose surplus is being transferred.
Nuair is mó an fuighleach ná éifeacht iomlán fo-bheart na bpáipéar ionaistrithe, tuigfear go bhfuil deire le brí na bpáipéar neamh-aistrithe, agus cuirfear i leataoibh iad ar éifeacht a bheidh có-ionann leis an ndeifríocht atá idír an fuighleach agus éifeacht fho-bheart na bpáipéar ion-aistrithe.	When the surplus is greater than the total value of the sub-parcels of transferable papers the non-transferable papers shall be set aside as not effective, at a value which is equal to the difference between the surplus and the value of the sub-parcels of transferable papers.
(4) Má's lú an fuighleach ná éifeacht iomlán na bpáipéar ion-aistrithe, aistreoidh an Ceann Comhairimh gach páipéar sa bhfo-bheart san de pháipéir ion-aistrithe go dtí an t-iarrthóir leanúnach atá teasbánta ortha ag an bhótálaí mar a chéad rogha eile ar fáil, agus gheobhfar amach cad is éifeacht gach páipéir aistreofar, ach ranna do dhéanamh den bhfuighleach le huimhir iomlán na bpáipéar ion-aistrithe agus gan na hiarmhair bhriste fhanann do bhac, ach amháin go ndéanfar nóta ar Pháipéar an Tora i dtaobh an chailliúnt éifeachta do thárla dá dheascaibh.	(4) If the surplus is less than the total value of the transferable papers, the Returning Officer shall transfer each paper in such sub-parcel of transferable papers to the continuing candidate indicated thereon as the voter's next available preference, and the value at which each paper shall be transferred shall be ascertained by dividing the surplus by the total number of transferable papers, fractional remainders being disregarded, except that the consequential loss of value shall be noted on the Result Sheet.
(5) Fuighleach a thárluíonn ar dheire aon chomhairimh, roinnfear é sara roinnfear fuighleach a thárlóidh ag comhaireamh 'na dhiaidh.	(5) A surplus which arises on the completion of any count shall be dealt with before a surplus which may arise at a subsequent count.
Nuair a thárluíonn dhá fhuighleach no níos mó de bharr an chomhairimh chéanna, sé an ceann is mó a roinnfear ar dtúis agus roinnfear na cinn eile in órdú a méide.	When two or more surpluses arise out of the same count the largest shall be first dealt with and the others shall be dealt with in the order of their magnitude.
Má's co-ionann an fuighleach ag beirt no ag níos mó iarrthóirí de bharr an chomhairimh chéanna, roinnfear ar dtúis fuighleach an iarrthóra gur cuireadh an éifeacht is mó 'na leith ag an gcomhaireamh ba thúisce nár chó-ionann na héifeachtaí do cuireadh i leith na n-iarrthóirí seo.	If two or more candidates have an equal surplus arising out of the same count, the surplus of the candidate credited with the greatest value at the earliest count at which the values credited to these candidates were unequal shall be first dealt with.
Nuair is có-ionann na héifeachtaí do cuireadh i leith na n-iarrthóirí sin ag gach comhaireamh, roinnfidh an Ceann Comhairimh ar dtúis fuighleach an iarrthóra gur breacadh san órdú rogha gurb é do fuair an uimhir ba mhó de chéad roghanna.	Where the values credited to such candidates were equal at all counts, the Returning Officer shall deal first with the surplus of the candidate recorded in the Order of Preferences as having received the greatest number of first preferences.
Iarrthóirí á gcur as.	Exclusion of Candidates.
9. (1) Má thárluíonn ar dheire aon chomhairimh, ná fuil fuighleach ag aon iarrthóir agus go bhfuil follamhntas amháin no níos mó le líona, déanfaidh an Ceann Comhairimh an t-iarrthóir go bhfuil an éifeacht is lú na leith do chur as agus a pháipéirí d'aistriu go dtí an t-iarrthóir leanúnach no na hiarrthóirí leanúnacha atá teasbánta ag an bhótálaí mar a chéad rogha eile ar fáil ar na páipéirí bhótála atá i mbeart no i bhfo-bheartanna an iarrthóra do cuireadh as, agus cuirfe sé éifeacht na bpáipéirí aistrithe i leith an iarrthóra leanúnaigh no na n-iarrthóiri leanúnacha.	9 (1) If at the end of any count no candidate has a surplus and one or more vacancies remain unfilled, the Returning Officer shall exclude the candidate credited with the lowest value and shall transfer his papers to the continuing candidate or candidates indicated on the voting papers in the parcel or subparcels of the excluded candidate as the voter's next available preference, and shall credit the continuing candidate or candidates with the value of the papers transferred.
(2) (a) Aistreofar ar dtúis an beart 'na bhfuil bun-bhótanna, agus is é éifeacht aistrithe gach páipéir ná míle	(2) (a) The Parcel containing original votes shall first be transferred, the transfer value of each paper being one thousand.
(b) Aistreofar ansan na fo-bheartanna 'na bhfuil bhótanna aistrithe san órdú agus ar an éifeacht gur tugadh iad don iarrthóir do cuireadh as.	(b) The sub-parcels containing transferred votes shall then be transferred in the order in which and at the value of which the excluded candidate obtained them.
(c) Chun a shocrú pe'ca iarrthóir leanúnach iarrthóir no nách eadh é tuigfear gur comhaireamh fé leith aistriú gach birt agus fo-bhirt.	(c) For the purpose of determining whether a candidate is a continuing candidate the transfer of each parcel or sub-parcel shall be regarded as a separate count.
(3) Le linn gach beart no fo-bheart d'aistriú, déanfar fo-bheart fé leith de sna páipéirí neamh-aistrithe, agus cuirfear iad san i leataoibh ar an éifeacht ar ar tugadh iad don iarrthóir do cuireadh as.	(3) In the transfer of each parcel or sub-parcel, a separate sub-parcel shall be made of the non-transferable papers which shall be set aside at the value at which the excluded candidates obtained them.
(4) Má thárluíonn, nuair is gá iarrthóir do chur as fén Riail seo, gurb é an éifeacht chéanna atá i leith beirte no níos mó iarrthóiri agus gurb iad is lú, féachfar chun iomláine éifeachta na mbun-bhótanna do cuireadh i leith gach iarrthóra dhíobh san, agus is é an t-iarrthóir ag a bhfuil an éifeacht iomlán is lú a chuirfear as, agus nuair is cóionann na héifeachtaí iomláine, féachfar chun na n-éifeachtaí iomláine do cuireadh i leith na n-iarrthórí seo ag an gcomhaireamh is túisce nár chó-ionann a n-éifeachtaí, agus is é an t-iarrthóir ag a raibh an éifeacht is lú ag an gcomhaireamh san a cuirfear as.	(4) If, when a candidate has to be excluded under this Rule, two or more candidates are each credited with the same value and are lowest, regard shall be had to the total value of original votes credited to each of those candidates, and the candidate with the smallest total value shall be excluded, and where the total values are equal, regard shall be had to the total value to those candidates at the earliest count at which they had unequal values, and the candidate with the smallest value at that count shall be excluded.
Má thárluíonn do bheirt no do níos mó iarrthóirí bheith ar deire agus gurb é an éifeacht chéanna do cuireadh i leith gach duine aca, ag gach comhaireamh, déanfaidh an Ceann Comhairimh an t-iarrthóir gur breacadh san órdú rogha go bhfuair sé an uimhir ba lú de chéad roghanna do chur as.	If two or more candidates are lowest and are each credited with the same value at all counts, the Returning Officer shall exclude the candidate recorded on the Order of Preferences as having received the smallest number of First Preferences.
Páipéirí do roint tar éis aistrithe.	Disposal of papers after any transfer.
10. Pé uair a déanfar aon aistriú fé aon cheann de sna Rialacha roimhe seo, cuirfear gach fo-bheart de pháipéirí aistreofar ar bharr an bhirt no an fhobhirt, má bhíonn ann, de pháipéirí an iarrthóra gur chuige a déanfar an t-aistriú, agus cuirfear éifeacht a gheobhfar amach do réir na Rialacha so i leith an iarrthóra san.	10. Whenever any transfer is made under any of these preceding Rules, each sub-parcel of papers transferred shall be placed on top of the parcel or sub-parcel, if any, of papers of the candidate to whom the transfer is made, and that candidate shall be credited with the value ascertained in pursuance of these Rules.
Na follamhntaísí deireanacha do líona.	Filling the last vacancies.
11. (1) Má thárluíonn ar dheire aon chomhairimh gur có-ionann na hiarrthóiri toghtha agus uimhir na bhfollamhntas atá le líona, ní déanfar aon aistriú eile.	11. (1) If at the end of any count the number of elected candidates is equal to the number of vacancies to be filled no further transfers shall be made.
(2) (a) Nuair is có-ionann uimhir na n-iarrthóirí leanúnacha agus uimhir na bhfollamhntas atá gan líona, tuigfear ansan go bhfuil na hiarrthóirí leanúnacha toghtha.	(2) (a) When the number of continuing candidates is equal to the number of vacancies remaining unfilled, the continuing candidates shall thereupon be deemed to be elected.
(b) Nuair ná fuil ach follamhntas amháin gan líona; agus gur mó an éifeacht atá curtha i leith iarrthóra leanúnaigh amháin ná iomláine na n-éifeachtaí atá curtha i leith na n-iarrthóirí leanúnacha eile, mar aon le aon fhuighleach nár haistríodh, tuigfear ansan an t-iarrthóir sin do bheith toghtha.	(b) When only one vacancy remains unfilled and the value credited to some one continuing candidate exceeds the total of the values credited to the other continuing candidates, together with any surplus not transferred, that candidate shall thereupon be deemed to be elected.
(3) Nuair is féidir na follamhntaisí deireanacha do líona fén Riail seo, ní déanfar aon aistriú eile.	(3) When the last vacancies can be filled under this Rule, no further transfer shall be made.
Páipéar an Tora.	Result Sheet.
12. Breacóidh an Ceann Comhairimh iomláine na n-éifeachtaí a cuirfear i leith gach iarrthóra ar dheire gach comhairimh. Beidh sa bhreaca san:—	12. The Returning Officer shall record the total of the values credited to each candidate at the end of every count. Such record shall include:—
(1) Éifeacht na bpáipéar neamhaistrithe go bhfuil deire le n-a mbrí; agus	(1) The value of the non-transferable papers not effective; and
(2) An chailliúint éifeachta toisc gan iarmháír do chomhaireamh agus féadfaidh an breaca san bheith do réir na fuirme atá i gCuid II. den Liost so, no i bhfuirm den tsórt chéanna.	(2) The loss of value owing to disregard of fractions, and may be in accordance with the form set out in Part Two of this Schedule, or in a form to the like effect.
Ordú Toghtháin.	Order of Election.
13. Tuigfear na hiarrthóiri do bheith toghtha san órdú gur aistríodh a bhfuighligh.	13. The Candidates shall be deemed to have been elected in the order in which their surpluses were transferred.
Iarrthóir go gcuirfear 'na leith ar dheire chómhairimh éifeacht atá díreach có-ionann leis an quota, tuigfear gur aige a bheidh an fuighleach is lú ag an gcomhaireamh san chun críche na Rialach so. Nuair a tuigfear beirt no níos mó d'iarrthóirí bheith toghtha fé Riail 11 (2) (a) tuigfear na hiarrthóirí sin do bheith toghtha do réir órdú na n-éifeachtaí do cuireadh 'na leith fé seach ag an staid sin, an t-iarrthóir gur cuireadh an éifeacht ba mhó 'na leith ag an staid sin, tuigfear é bheith toghtha ar dtúis imeasc na n-iarrthoirí sin agus mar sin de, agus má cuirtear éifeachtaí có-ionannacha i leith beirte no níos mó d'iarrthoirí ag an staid sin, gheobhfar amach órdú toghaidh a leithéidí d'iarrthóirí có-ionannacha ar an gcuma chéanna do gheobhfaí amach órdú a leithéidí d'iarrthóirí do chur as fé Riail 9 (4), leis an ndeifríocht so, gurb iad a tuigfear bheith toghtha ar dtúis imeasc na n-iarrthóirí có-ionannacha san ná na hiarrthóirí is déanaí do cuirfí as fén Riail sin, agus gurb é an t-iarrthóir is túisce do cuirfí as an t-iarrthóir is déanaí a tuigfear bheith toghtha.	A Candidate credited at the end of a count with a value exactly equal to the quota shall be regarded as having the smallest surplus at that count for the purposes of this Rule. When two or more candidates are deemed to have been elected under Rule 11 (2) (a) such candidates shall be deemed to have been elected in the order of values credited to them respectively at that stage the candidate, credited at that stage with the greatest value being deemed to have been the first elected of such candidates, and so on, and if two or more candidates are credited with equal values at that stage the order of election of such equal candidates shall be ascertained in the same way as the order of exclusion of such candidates would be ascertained under Rule (9) (4), with the difference that the candidates who would be the last to be excluded under that Rule shall be deemed to have been the first elected of such equal candidates, and the candidate who would have been the first to be excluded shall be deemed to have been the last elected.
Míniúcháin.	Definitions.
14. Sna Rialacha so—	14. In these Rules:—
(1) Cialluíonn an abairt “iarrthóir leanúnacha” aon iarrthóir ná tuigtear é thogha ná é chur as.	(1) The expression “continuing candidates” means any candidate not deemed to be elected and not excluded.
(2) Cialluíonn an abairt “Céad rogha” an figiúir 1 'na aonar, cialluíonn an abairt “dara rogha” an figiúir 2 'na aonar i ndiaidh an fhigiúra 1, agus cialluíonn an abairt “treas rogha” an figiúir 3 curtha 'na aonar i ndiaidh na bhfigiúirí 1 agus 2 os coinne ainme aon iarrthóra, agus mar sin de.	(2) The expression “first preference” means the “figure 1” standing alone; the expression “second preference” means the “figure 2” standing alone in succession to “figure 1,” and the expression “third preference” means the “figure 3” standing alone in succession to the figures “1” and “2” set opposite the name of any candidate, and so on.
(3) Cialluíonn an abairt “an chéad rogha ar fáil” dara rogha no rogha do thagann 'na dhiaidh a breactar ar órdú uimhreach i ndiaidh a chéile d'iarrthóir leanúnach, gan comhaireamh do dhéanamh ar an gcéad rogha eile thagann in órdú ar an bpáipéar bhótálá d'iarrthóirí go dtuigtear cheana iad do bheith toghtha no curtha as.	(3) The expression “next available preference” means a second or subsequent preference recorded in consecutive numerical order for a continuing candidate, the preference next in order on the voting paper for candidates already deemed to be elected or excluded being ignored.
(4) Cialluíonn an abairt “páipéar ion-aistrithe” páipéar bhótála ar a ndintear, tar éis chéad rogha, dara rogha no rogha 'na dhiaidh sin do bhreacha ar órdú uimhreach i ndiaidh a chéile d'iarrthóir leanúnach.	(4) The expression “transferable paper” means a voting paper on which following a first preference a second or subsequent preference is recorded in numerical order for a continuing candidate.
(5) Cialluíonn an abairt “páipéar neamh-aistrithe” páipéar bhótála ná fuil aon dara rogha ná rogha 'na dhiaidh breacuithe air d'iarrthóir leanúnach.	(5) The expression “non-transferable paper” means a voting paper on which no second or subsequent preference is recorded for a continuing candidate:
Ar choiníoll go dtuigfear gur páipéar neamh-aistrithe páipéar:—	#Provided that a paper shall be deemed to have become a non-transferable paper whenever—
(a) Nuair atá ainmneacha beirte no níos mó d'iarrthóirí (is cuma iad do bheith ar leanúint no gan a bheith) marcálta leis an uimhir chéanna agus gurb iad is túisce arís san órdú rogha; no	(a) The names of two or more candidates (whether continuing or not) are marked with the same number, and are next in order of preference: or
(b) nuair a marcáltar ainm an iarrthóra is túisce arís san órdú rogha (is cuma é do bheith ar leanúint no gan a bheith)—	(b) The name of the candidate next in order of preference (whether continuing or not) is marked—
(I) le huimhir ná leanann i ndiaidh chéile uimhir éigin eile ar an bpáipéar bhótála; no	(I) by a number not following consecutively after some other number on the voting paper; or
(II) le dhá uimhir no níos mo; no	(II) by two or more numbers; or
(c) nuair atá sé gan éifeacht toisc dabhata.	(c) it is void for uncertainty.
(6) Cialluíonn an abairt “bunbhóta” i dtaobh aon iarrthóra, bhóta do fuarthas ó pháipéar bhótála gur breacadh céad rogha air don iarrthóir sin.	(6) The expression “original votes,” in regard to any candidates means a vote derived from a voting paper on which a first preference is recorded for that candidate.
(7) Cialluíonn an abairt “bhóta aistrithe” i dtaobh aon iarrthóra, bhóta do fuarthas ó pháipéar bhótála ar ar breacadh dara rogha no rogha 'na dhiaidh don iarrthóir sin.	(7) The expression “transferred vote” in regard to any candidate means a vote derived from a voting paper on which a second or subsequent preference is recorded for that candidate.
(8) Cialluíonn an focal “fuighleach” an uimhir thar an quota in éifeacht iomláin na bhótanna, idir bun-bhótanna agus bhótanna aistrithe, a cuirtear i leith aon iarrthóra.	(8) The expression “surplus” means the number by which the total value of the votes, original and transferred, credited to any candidate exceeds the quota.
(9) Cialluíonn an focal “comhaireamh”	(9) The expression “count” means:
(a) gach ní is gá do dhéanamh i gcomhaireamh na gcéad roghanna a breactar d'iarrthóirí, no	(a) All the operations involved in the counting of the first preferences recorded for candidates; or
(b) gach ní is gá do dhéanamh chun fuighleach iarrthóra thoghtha d'aistriú, no	(b) All the operations involved in the transfer of the surplus of an elected candidate; or
(c) gach ní is gá do dhéanamh chun bhótanna iarrthóra a cuirtear as d'aistriú.	(c) All the operations involved in the transfer of the votes of an excluded candidate.
(10) Isé brí na habairte “tuigfear bheith toghtha” ná go dtuigfear bheith toghtha chun críche an chomhairimh, ach gan dochar do thora an toghacháin d'fhógairt.	(10) The expression “deemed to be elected” means deemed to be elected for the purpose of counting, but without prejudice to the declaration of the result of the election.
(11) Cialluíonn an abairt “socrú le crann-chur” i Riail a 5 socrú do réir na dtreor so leanas:—	(11) The expression “determined by lot” in Rule 5 means determined in accordance with the following directions:—
Scríobhfar ainmneacha na n-iarrthóirí le n-a mbaineann sé ar bhlúirí pápéir có-mhar a chéile, agus fillfear na blúirí chun ná haithneofar iad thar a chéile, agus meascfar iad agus tarraiceofar iad gan ordú gan eagar; déanfar na hiarrthóirí le n-a mbaineann sé do chur ar an Ordú Rogha do réir an órdú 'na dtarraiceofar na blúirí ar a bhfuil a n-ainmneacha ag tosnú leis an iarrthóir go mbeidh a ainm ar an mblúire a tarraiceofar ar dtúis.	The names of the candidates concerned having been written on similar slips of paper, and the slips having been folded so as to prevent identification and mixed and drawn at random, the candidates concerned shall as amongst themselves be arranged on the Order of Preferences in the order in which the slips containing their names are drawn beginning with the candidate whose name is on the slip drawn first.

Mr. ERNEST BLYTHE

These Resolutions are largely formal. They are brought forward at this stage because we look upon the election of the thirty Members of the Senate as a matter of considerable importance, and because we wish to put it in the power of Deputies to make nominations immediately, and we want Deputies to have an opportunity of thinking about the matter. Resolutions such as we have here might easily be considered when the new Dáil meets, and they might easily be passed then. If that were done the result might be that we would have hasty nominations—that is, Deputies might not consider well who should be nominated, or who, of those nominated, they should vote for. Now, although the Constitution restricts the powers of the Senate, and although the Senate, if it were inclined to obstruct, would be prevented by the limitations imposed by the Constitution from doing very much in the way of obstructing public business, we should not on that account think it is a matter of little importance how this first Senate is to be constituted. If the institution is a success, the Senate may give the most valuable service to the country. There is provision in the Senate for the nomination of people who will represent elements and parties that are not sufficiently represented in the Dáil. If the Senate acquits itself well and acquires the confidence of the country, these nominations to the Senate may be made the means of fusing together lines of political thought that have been heretofore entirely hostile to each other. There will be no benefit whatever gained for the country by these nominations unless the Senate as a whole does its work well and gains the confidence of the country. If it does that, people who have heretofore been hostile, or in political disagreement with the majority, will have an opportunity of participating in the business of the country and of giving expression to their views by adjusting their own point of view publicly. Afterwards, perhaps, some of them who would be excluded at the present moment from the Dáil may so establish the fact that they can be useful public servants, that in future Dáils they may have a chance of gaining the suffrage of the people. By that means the Senate may be very useful in eliminating old differences, in bringing people to a sense of the national position that they would not otherwise observe, and it may be the means which will greatly assist in unifying the whole of Ireland. However, that depends entirely on the Senate being made a body which will do useful work for the country. The Senate has not merely to consider Bills sent up by the Dáil, and amend those Bills if it can get the Dáil to agree with its amendment; it is a body which may consider and originate legislation which the Dáil may afterwards adopt, and which, because of the fact that Ministers will not sit in it, and the routine business will not be so large, will have an opportunity of considering legislation to a greater degree than the Dáil. It is desirable, if we have a Senate, that it should be a well and wisely constituted body, and that it should do all the service which it can do if it is so constituted. It is for these reasons that we put forward the Resolutions that are on the paper at this early date in order that nothing may be done hastily in the matter of choosing the 30 elected Members of the Senate. There are very few points that could be regarded as controversial in the Resolutions themselves. They are entirely along the ordinary lines. In the Schedule there are special rules as to the method in which the count is to be conducted: That adjustment in the system of Proportional Representation, or in a detail of it, as we know it, is necessary because of the fact that the electorate is very small and that the quota will be perhaps two, or two and a decimal. All the members of the Dáil know that under the system of Proportional Representation to which we are accustomed here the quota is arrived at by adding one to the number of vacancies, dividing the total vote by that, and adding one to the result. When you are dealing in thousands of votes nothing is put astray by adding one to the result. But when the quota will be two, or two and a half, or three perhaps, the whole business is knocked astray if you have to add a figure that is practically half the total. There are other provisions. There is the provision in the Schedule, in Rule 5, for ascertaining the order of preferences. That is a new rule that will not be found in any of the ordinary Proportional Representation rules. That is necessary because it is likely that of the thirty candidates to be elected, a large number who will be ultimately elected may not obtain any votes on the first count. If some device like this were not adopted it would largely depend upon chance who would be elected, because out of the large number who had received no preference votes or who might be equal, without a quota you would have to draw lots as to who would be eliminated. The system laid down here is a system too complicated for general use. It could not possibly be adopted for Parliamentary elections. But where the total number of votes cast will be perhaps eighty or so it presents no difficulty; it leaves absolutely nothing to chance. Then it establishes definitely by a scrutiny of the entire papers the order of preferences. That is necessary, not only to prevent people being excluded by chance by the drawing of lots, but it is necessary also to establish in a way that cannot be disputed or challenged, the order in which successful candidates may be elected. The first fifteen candidates to be elected will have a term of office of 12 years. The remaining 15 will have a term of office of only 6 years. And it is a matter of importance, therefore, that the person who might be number 14 on the list shall not by any defect in the system of counting be returned as sixteenth on the list. These rules are rules that were devised in the first instance for the election of the Senate under the 1920 Act. This clause 5 has been introduced because of the desirability of making the rules more mathematically accurate than they were originally and for the purpose of establishing the order of preference more definitely. There are a couple of other small amendments in them, but in the main they are the rules that were adopted at that time. These rules as they stand have been submitted to the Proportional Representation Society, and have been approved by them. It might not be possible for the Members at one reading to grasp fully all the implications of the various provisions, but they have been most carefully considered. A trial election has been carried out under them, and the Deputies who are not sure of their own knowledge may take it that they are watertight. The only other thing that might require mention is the provision No. 8 in the resolution, "that the voting shall be by secret ballot." It is thought that that would be the best way of getting as good a Senate as it is possible for this Dáil to elect. If these resolutions are adopted by the Dáil in the form in which they stand, no restriction will be placed upon the number of candidates whom any Deputy may nominate. There may be a large number of Deputies who may not wish to nominate any candidate. Every Deputy who nominates a candidate must obtain the consent of that candidate. A Deputy can give only one single first preference; and it might happen that some Deputy who had asked a number of people to consent to be nominated, might find that some of them were not elected, and there would be, perhaps, heart-burning on the part of the person who was rejected when that person saw that the very Deputy who had requested him to go forward had not given his first preference for him. This membership of the Senate is not an office of profit. Deputies, in voting for it in this first election, are very much in the position of the electors in the country who would vote by secret ballot. They are, in fact, not so much acting in the ordinary way in their representative capacity as taking for the present the place of a group of electors or the place of the electorate. In the ordinary way electors of the country will elect the Senate by secret ballot. It is impossible to have an election of the Senate carried out in that way at the present time. The Dáil is doing it as nearly as possible in the same way, with, as I have said, modifications in the matter of counting. I think there is nothing to say further about these rules. If they are passed to-day, it would be possible at once for any Deputy to put in a nomination or nominations, and it should be possible to have all the nominations scrutinised. Members may have their minds made up and can advise with their friends, and when the Parliament meets after the Constitution comes into operation, it would be possible to proceed at once with the election of the 30 members of the Senate. The President then, or before that time, would be able to announce his list of nominations. The first Senate could be constituted at once, and the Oireachtas can go on with its work without any further delay.

Mr. P. O'MAILLE

I second the motion.

Mr. T. JOHNSON

I just want to raise a rather technical point on this. It seems to me it would require some consideration from the legal side, as it may lead to certain constitutional difficulties later on. As I read these Resolutions, there will be two different electorates, one of which will be entitled to nominate members of the Senate, and the other electorate will be entitled to elect the Senate. I can conceive of Members being fully qualified, on these Resolutions, to nominate a Senator, and being disqualified from taking part in the election of that Senator, and I suggest that that would be an impossible position to place ourselves in, if you had a considerable number nominated by men who are not qualified to take part in the election.

Mr. E. BLYTHE

I think the Deputy is labouring under a misapprehension. I do not think that that is so.

Mr. JOHNSON

I will be very glad if it is made clear. It is laid down here that the nominations are to be sent in by Members of this Dáil who have signed the roll. The nominations will close at twelve o'clock on the day of the coming into force of the Constitution. After that, I take it—I may be wrong, and I hope I am wrong—that the Dáil will not be constituted of any person who does not sign the oath or take the oath, and it will be only those members who have taken the oath who will be qualified to elect Senators; so that you have two different electorates, and you may be placed in the position where half the nominated Senators are nominated by Deputies who are not capable of voting. I suggest that the whole procedure either should finish before the date of the coming into operation of the Constitution, or it should begin after the coming into operation of the Constitution, but it is quite impossible as it stands, inasmuch as it is divided between two sections, the dividing line being the date of the coming into operation of the Constitution. I think that that ought to be got over by having the whole process completed before this date that is mentioned. Then, if it is required to have formal ratification afterwards, let that be done, but as it stands it is liable, perhaps, to cause a good deal of trouble, inasmuch as there are two separate qualifications, for the nominator on the one hand, and for the elector on the other. Another small point is that the time will end at 12 o'clock noon on the day of the coming into force of the Constitution. Well, that is an indefinite date, and we are not likely to know that date until after it has transpired, and I suggest that it should be the day after the announcement—the day after the proclamation. However, that is a smaller point than the other. I think the other is a substantial objection, that would make the passing of this resolution possibly a farce.

Professor MAGENNIS

The provisions made for the nominating and electing of members to the Senate follow, of course, the Article with regard thereto as passed in the framing of the Constitution, and very admirable specimen forms are provided in the Schedule here to guide Deputies in the making of nominations. On a study of these specimens a difficulty occurred to me which I have no doubt the Minister will very readily remove. I mention it to him now because it may have occurred to others. In the Article of the Constitution which we enacted it is stated that the Senate is to consist of citizens who have deserved well of the country. I think the words used are not exactly those that I have employed, but are rather, "who have done honour to the country," and two further classes are by implication indicated, they who have become representative in some way of valuable elements in the Nation's life. Now, what in the concrete this will actually prove to be is outlined in the form of nomination paper which is put forward here as a sample. For example, "Alexander Devereux" is nominated and his nominator gives as the grounds for his nomination a statement of his useful public services. For instance, he was President of a Chamber of Commerce and founded an Industrial Development Association, and so on. Now that is one type. Then another is nominated and the ground for recommending him to the electors is that he is the author of notable Irish standard historical works. You will see that is quite a different type of qualification. Then the next is he who was President of such and such a social guild and was first to secure the establishment of school clinics in Irish Elementary Schools. These are different species of public services. Now I can well conceive of a Deputy nominating such a trio and giving as the grounds for his selection just such grounds as these. When we come to vote, if I do not misunderstand the scheme, a Deputy votes for only one of those. He gives his first preference vote to one and only one, although he may have nominated these three, and although it may be deemed highly desirable that the Senate should combine different sorts of representative Irishmen, as indicated in these outlined qualifications. Now, that seems to me, if I do not wholly misunderstand, a serious deficiency in the plan. I would like to suggest, if there is any room for the suggestion, that when all the nominations have been received, that a Committee should work over these, and, as far as possible, classify them, and then the scheme should provide for voting as between different candidates under each of the separate categories. Otherwise we should be like Buridanus's ass, and remain without recording our votes because of the equal attractions of two candidates.

Mr. DARRELL FIGGIS

One finds some difficulty with regard to this Resolution that has been placed before us, a difficulty that the Minister who moved it has already anticipated when he stated that Deputies might not be able to grasp the full import of the resolution in some of its details. Personally I did not see a copy of this until this morning. It is possible that some Deputies saw it before. Deputy Johnson has already indicated two matters, one of very considerable moment, one an improvement of a definite kind, and it is possible that if greater opportunity had been given Deputies to go over this, certain other faults might be discovered. I hope that it is not impossible that this may be taken later on in the ordinary course that we have hitherto adopted for Bills, that is to say, it may receive here First and Second Readings, and that there should be a subsequent Committee stage, because while it is actually a Resolution and not a Bill, we know that, in practical effect, it is a Bill put into resolution form so as to avoid some of the difficulties which are purely of a diplomatic and technical kind that are attendant upon Bills brought forward before the Constitution has actually been prescribed. I think it would be desirable that there should be a Committee Stage upon this. It need not occupy a great deal of time, but, on the other hand, it may be found that it would occupy some time, and there may be some improvements to suggest in the course of the various paragraphs of this Resolution, because this election is a very important matter. A Senate is brought into being that will last—or some part of it will last—for twelve years. The persons who compose that Senate will exert a very considerable authority in the future of this State. We know that the Senate does not actually function very strongly or very markedly under the Constitution, but it has got a curious function of its own. It will have a power which it will be able to assume for itself, according to its dignity and according to its knowledge. If it be composed of the kind of persons we would like to see there, there is no question that the Senate will exert a very considerable authority in the Free-State. I mention only one of these. There are provisions in the Constitution for the exercise of the Referendum. I have stated here, and I repeat it, that the Referendum in the normal course, by petition, is practically inoperative. As we have put it in the Constitution, if the Referendum is to be exercised it will be exercised by the vote of the Senate. In other words, the Senate will have entrusted to it the right of calling in the entire people of this country against decisions of the Dáil, and I hope the Senate will frequently exercise that right, if only to discover at various stages of the Dáil's authority whether it is exceeding that authority, or whether it is keeping well within it. It is a very considerable power to bestow on the Senate, and it is right at this stage of elaborating the machinery by which the Senate will be elected to take great care to see that we get the right kind of persons. One welcomes the assurance of the Minister moving this Resolution that before any voting takes place the President will let us know exactly who are to be the thirty persons whom he will propose, under the transitional provisions of the Constitution, before the Dáil votes upon the other thirty. We passed a Resolution here the other day by which the President was to take counsel with a certain number of bodies in the country before he put his thirty up on nomination. I venture to say that one of the bodies that was not mentioned in that earlier Resolution, but which we all had in our minds, was his own party, which would necessarily have a very considerable influence in his decision in that matter, and it is worth consideration, and is not quite beside the point, that whereas his own party will actually have a large say in the nominated half, it will have an equally large say, because of the size of it, necessarily in the half that is to be elected by this body. I suppose that is inevitable, things being as they are. I merely draw attention to that fact, because it may prove to be a fact of some moment. It has been suggested several times in the country since the Constitution was first published that the Senate would give an opportunity for minority representation. It has also been suggested that the Senate would give an opportunity for the election or the nomination of persons who have hitherto been known as Southern Unionists. I think I am right in saying that that suggestion has not been put forward by those who have been hitherto known as Southern Unionists. I recollect a saying of Deputy Fitzgibbon in this Dáil, and I suggest it is germane to this matter, because it will guide the use made of this machinery, that there is no question at any time of anybody in this country seeking a privileged position; that whoever gets elected will get elected by his or her own merits. Those merits may give people of special training an opportunity of election to the Senate that others not so fortunate might not have, and I imagine that there may be some prejudice against the election of that kind of persons, because of political faith or unfaith that they had in the past. But there are names that will occur to all of us here of persons we would like to see elected to the Senate, no matter what their previous records have been, because their services have been eminent, their qualifications are special and peculiar; but I am not sure under these provisions that we have in this resolution exactly what protection there is in order to see that all parties of peculiar interest in this country will get fair representation. What I mean is this: If the entire body had to be elected I believe it would be true that the entire Senate would be more justly chosen than by the method that has been adopted in the Constitution. And I believe the same would be the case if the entire body had to be nominated, because if the President had to nominate, or any person had to nominate the entire Senate of sixty, he would select people of a special kind, so as to form a uniform whole on the lines that have been suggested by Deputy Professor Magennis. Therefore I would like if the Minister would give us some indication before we come to the voting, in accordance with the provisions of this Resolution—or if the President or the Ministry would give us some indication as to how the original thirty—the nominated thirty—came to be appointed, because the actual choice preceding the election in each Deputy's mind will be one of very considerable difficulty. That difficulty can be largely removed if we know, for example, the Chamber of Commerce in Dublin having put up three persons, that we in proceeding to the election of the second thirty can have some kind of assurance that that part of the national life had been exhausted in the nominated half, or alternatively if an engineering body were to put up a certain number of names to the President and the President decided on their nominations and accepted these names. He put up so many persons as representing the engineering profession which would enable this Dáil when it came to this half of the thirty to feel that that portion had at least been more or less exhausted, and that therefore this Dáil would be able to consider those parts of the national life that did not come under the President's thirty. For that reason I hope we will be able to have an assurance whether this be passed to-day or whether it will be postponed to a later Committee stage—and I take it there is no matter of violent hurry in it—that we will at least have the President's nominated thirty in our hands a full week before any elections proceed, and if possible at least a full week before the lists of nominations are closed under the provisions of this Resolution.

Mr. E. BLYTHE

There is some little point in the matter raised by Deputy Johnson. He made a somewhat different criticism from what I thought he would. However, I think it is not one that need trouble us very much. It may be, I suppose it is a fact, that there are certain members of this Dáil who will not continue to be members of the Dáil after the passing of the Constitution, and it may be that those members, if these Resolutions are adopted, will make nominations for the Senate. I do not think that that matters a great deal. If the nominations are nominations that commend themselves to the Dáil the people nominated will be elected, and if they do not commend themselves to the Dáil they will not be elected. The actual nomination is not a serious matter. All that is required is that people should have the power to put names forward; that it be the duty of members of this Dáil, if they think of anyone suitable, to put the name forward, and that somebody should have the duty of approaching people who they think would be good members of the Senate, and asking them to act. Whether a few members leave this Dáil after the passing of the Constitution or not I do not think really is a matter of very serious import. In any case the alternatives involve disadvantages. I do not believe that under the Constitution—in fact, I think it is clear that under the Constitution we could not nominate or elect the thirty members of the Senate until this Dáil has ceased to be the House of the Provisional Parliament and has become the Chamber of Deputies of the Free State. I think it is definitely laid down in the Constitution, and I think it is perfectly clear, that it is not this Dáil, as it stands at present, that has the power of electing the Senate, but the Dáil of the Oireachtas of the Free State. Consequently the matter cannot be entirely done before the Constitution comes into operation.

Mr. T. JOHNSON

May I point out that the resolution speaks of the time for election, and the voting only comes into operation after that time has expired?

Mr. E. BLYTHE

That is a verbal point.

Mr. T. JOHNSON

It may be very important later on.

Mr. E. BLYTHE

The alternative of postponing the entire business until after the Constitution has come into operation is, to my mind, a disadvantage, as it would lead to the matter being done with a rush—being done, probably, without very careful consideration. I think, unless it is possible to make nominations and to put the fact to Deputies that nominations are being actually made—unless it is possible to put the names of people who have been actually nominated and who are candidates before the Deputies of the Dáil, a very considerable number of them—and I know this from some conversations—they are not likely to give very much consideration to the matter. I think the postponing of the whole matter, or the postponement of any nomination until after the Constitution has come into operation, would mean that the matter would be rushed through in a day or two, or it would mean the Constitution of the Senate would have to be delayed perhaps for a fortnight or more, and I think that would be undesirable. There is a small point in this matter, and I do not believe it is one that constitutes any serious difficulty, and I do not say that it can lead to any difficulties later on. Deputy Magennis's point was one that was considered, but we did not see that it was practicable to devise any system of voting by lists that would meet the present difficulties. I think, that if a Deputy finds three or four people nominated, all of whom he desires to see returned, he will have to canvass his friends and he will give his first vote to one of the three or four. He will have to persuade his friends to give their vote to the others. That difficulty is one of the arguments for conducting this election by secret ballot. It is also, to my mind, an argument against having the election rushed by postponing the nominations until the Constitution has come into operation. I believe it is a fact that if nominations were made after the Constitution came into operation there would be a desire to finish the business off at once. If the Oireachtas were able to do business, then arrangements between Deputies could be made which might be necessary to get the candidates that ought to be returned, actually returned, and to get the consideration given to the question of establishing a balance in the Senate, that ought to be given. That would be lost sight of in the welter. With regard to what Deputy Figgis said, I am sorry that the Resolution was not in the hands of Deputies sooner. It was hardly my fault. I think there were some difficulties with the printers and that the usual overtime was not being worked. Otherwise Deputies would have had it sooner. If there had been any considerable difficulty about any point in the Resolution, I would see no reason for being opposed to going into Committee, but as a matter of fact, I think, that at the moment nothing has been said that would point to the necessity. Deputy Johnson suggested that the nominations should be received until noon on the day after the coming into force of the Constitution of Saorstát Eireann. I think that that is quite reasonable, and as far as I am concerned, I would be agreeable to receiving it. There might be a slight consequential amendment in a later clause as to the day on which the voting would take place, or the matter could be met by adjourning the meeting of the Dáil.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

It does not affect the meeting of the Dáil. The meeting of the Dáil takes place on the day after the coming into force of the Constitution.

Mr. BLYTHE

It could be met by holding back the meeting of the Dáil for another day. With that change, I would suggest to the Deputies that it would be better to pass the Resolution to-day. There is a short time now, and I think it is necessary that as soon as possible nominations should begin to be made, and Deputies should begin to consider how they would like to constitute the Senate and who they would like to vote for.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

We had better get the proposed amendment in writing inserted.

Mr. DARRELL FIGGIS

May I suggest that you substitute the word "after" for the word "of" in the fourth line of page 77, after the word "day"—i.e., the noon on the day after.

Mr. BLYTHE

That would do.

Professor WM. MAGENNIS

May I ask a question with regard to page 82, Section 9, Sub-section 2 (a)? This is a provision for dealing with the exclusion of the lowest candidate: "The parcel containing original votes shall first be transferred, the transfer value of each paper being one thousand." Does that mean, when A.B. is declared excluded, that all the papers on which votes are recorded for A.B. are to be transferred, first, as parcels containing his first preference, and secondly, as sub-parcels containing second or third preferences over other candidates already elected? How will original votes for A.B. be transferred? Is the idea that what was a second vote in such a case is to count practically as a first vote for the continuing candidate? If so, this is a decided departure from the whole doctrine of Proportional Representation.

Mr. BLYTHE

This system, I may say, of the giving of the value of 1,000 to each vote was adopted a considerable time ago. The original votes would be transferred at their full value in the case of an excluded candidate. The quota is 200. The candidates might have a value of 1,000. That would be transferred at its full value. Then he would have got another vote at the value of 200; that would be transferred at the value of 200.

Professor WM. MAGENNIS

It is not intended to transfer his original votes. It is worded so as not to convey that.

Mr. BLYTHE

All votes are to be transferred at the value they hold at the time of transfer.

Professor WM. MAGENNIS

The machinery of Proportional Representation is so delicate that any interference with the machine is likely to produce unexpected results, and the proposal made by the Minister for Local Government that we should canvass for those that we would like to support may have very dangerous results in this case. I should like to give my preference vote to the man who introduced a clinic into the elementary schools. I think that is a priceless service to the nation.

Mr. T. JOHNSON

Name?

Professor WM. MAGENNIS

I should like also to vote for the man who is the founder of the Industrial Development Association. Am I to vote for the one and canvass for the other? If so, I may canvass so assiduously for the other as to defeat my benefactor. It seems to me that the Ministry is not so devoid of ability as is professed. I think they can provide a scheme by which lists could be set out and allow us to have preferential votes for a number not exceeding six. There are 30 candidates. It is very different in the case of candidates, all of surpassing merit, to give preferential votes.

Mr. GERALD FITZGIBBON

A trifling verbal amendment is required in Resolution No. 7. You are to set out in the notice of the nomination a statement of the persons who have rendered useful public service, or who possess special qualifications in reference to important aspects of the Nation's life. Now, the form of nomination given on page 86 appears to contemplate a third matter—namely, his attainments. You have got there "Statement of useful public service or special qualifications or attainments in the aforesaid," and the word "attainments" has been left out by oversight in Resolution 7.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

The nomination states "special qualifications or attainments."

Mr. FITZGIBBON

I suggest the word "attainments" may be added there after "public service." I do not know whether "attainments" is a proper word to use, in reference to important aspects of the Nation's life. I should think "attainments" referred to individuals themselves.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

Achievements.

Mr. FITZGIBBON

Well "attainments" is the word used.

Mr. BLYTHE

You see the wording in the Constitution is "The Senate/ Seanad Eireann shall be composed of citizens who shall be proposed on the grounds that they have done honour to the Nation by reason of useful public service, or that, because of special qualifications or attainments, they represent important aspects of the Nation's life." I accept the amendment.

Mr. T. JOHNSON

I want to raise the question whether it is desirable to state these things on the nomination form, because nobody is going to believe what the nominator says about the person nominated. It may because of "you scratch my back and I will scratch your back." If I want "to wipe the eye" of a particular person, I will say he has done splendid things. If I want to "touch" a man for a five-pound note, I will give him a testimonial for things he has done, but no one will believe it; and to put that as a reason, when we are all sure that we are not going to believe a testimonial in such a case, is rather futile and is a waste of paper, ink, time, and the hilarity of the Deputies. The name will be sufficient, and if the candidate is going to canvass you, you can leave it to himself to tell all the particulars about his attainments and his qualifications; but you should not ask the nominators to make such a statement in the nomination paper. Well, you may want very many large sheets of paper, because the people we will nominate will have the most wonderful qualifications, and they will require a full explanation and description, and that might take a very long time, and I really suggest that it is not at all necessary, and is perhaps undesirable, that we should be asked to state the qualifications in the official form, whatever we may do in private advocacy amongst the Deputies of the Dáil.

Mr. BLYTHE

For the purpose of ordinary elections the Constitution lays it down that candidates shall be proposed on the grounds that they had done so and so. The difficulty is that Deputy Johnson did not think of this in time.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

In the course of the Constitution debate it was suggested that there would be no means to determine whether they would have these qualifications.

Professor WM. MAGENNIS

It would prevent many bogus nominations being accepted.

Mr. T. JOHNSON

Would the Minister accept a limitation in the number of words used?

Mr. BLYTHE

I was wishing that those that were short would be read, and that those that were long should not be read.

The PRESIDENT

It is right to say with reference to Deputy Magennis's point that this particular method adopted here gives you an exact result from the point of view of Proportional Representation as against the result achieved by the ordinary methods adopted, and I think that Deputies will appreciate its value.

Amendment to Paragraph 4, page 77, to insert after the word "day" the words "following the day," proposed by Deputy Johnson and seconded by Deputy Hughes, put and agreed to.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

Deputy Fitzgibbon has proposed to make Paragraph 7, page 77, column 2, come into line with the Nomination Paper.

Amendment to Paragraph 7, page 77, to insert the two words "or attainments" after the word "qualifications," proposed by Deputy Fitzgibbon and seconded by Deputy Magennis, put and agreed to.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

With these two amendments the Resolution is before the Dáil. We will put the Resolution now formally, with these two amendments.

Resolution put and agreed to.

AN CEANN COMHAIRLE

With regard to the portions of the Resolution that concern me as Returning Officer, I propose to receive nominations at the Clerk's office here, on and after tomorrow, Thursday, the 2nd November, and every succeeding day, except Saturdays and Sundays, during the time of election, between 11 a.m. and 1 p.m., and 3 p.m. and 5 p.m., save that on the day after the day of the coming into operation of the Constitution of Saorstát Eireann, the hours for receiving nominations shall be from 10 a.m. to 12 noon. I will get a notice to that effect posted up for Deputies; nomination forms are printed and will be available from now onwards in the Clerk's Office, and each Deputy can nominate as many candidates as he pleases.