I desire to move the amendment standing in my name— that the Estimate be referred back for reconsideration. We are very glad to hear that steps are at last being taken to reorganise the fishing industry. The industry, as everybody knows, is in a parlous condition at present. I think it has been stated in one of the official reports that there are only a thousand professional fishermen left in the Free State, and I have noted in the report of the Tariff Commission on the application for a tariff on fish barrels, that out of 300 drifters which find employment in Free State waters only two are registered in the Free State. The "Irish Independent" in a leading article on 3rd January said: "The trade in fish, which ought to be a valuable asset to the nation, is down by £202,401, while at the same time the imports of this commodity increased by £38,295"—that is for last year—"It is somewhat anomalous that this country should be importing fish at the price of £354,452 per annum." We have the position that while our own industry is disorganised and at a low ebb, suffering from post-war depression, bad seasons, lack of equipment, and almost everything that could help to reduce or to extinguish the industry, foreigners are finding ample sustenance and ample profit in fishing in Free State waters. The attention of the Department has frequently been called to the necessity for adequate protection. Only yesterday a Deputy on these benches suggested that at least an extra motor boat should be placed at the disposal of the Civic Guards in the area where trouble has occurred with French trawlers. On several occasions the Minister promised to introduce an Estimate for a second or, if necessary, a third fishery cruiser, but nothing has been done about it. At the same time he promised that more stringent regulations would be made to deal with these foreign poachers, and I think he promised to introduce a Bill to deal with that whole question and to deal with the question of extraterritorial jurisdiction.
So long as these matters of protection and territorial waters are left in their present position, it seems inappropriate even to discuss the question of reorganising the Irish fisheries. At least before a board of businessmen are called in, give them a fair chance; do not come along afterwards saying: "Well, we got the best men that we could; we gave them ample facilities and plenty of powers, and still they have not been able to do any better." We want to be quite sure, and I hope the Board will be quite sure, that when they undertake this work they will be doing so with a feeling that everything possible has been done to make this work which, even in the best circumstances would be extremely slow, costly and difficult, as easy as possible. It is a good thing that some of our prominent businessmen, including our colleague Deputy McDonogh, have been placed upon this Board. With a very wide experience of the fishing industry and of the circumstances in different areas, I am sure, with the assistance of the Department's experts, that they will be able to do the best that can be done in the circumstances.
The Minister frequently said that he did not favour State action. It is satisfactory to find that he has at last come round to believe that the situation is so serious that only by direct State intervention can the fishing industry be saved. It is absolutely useless to talk of Irish capital being invested in the industry until our own Government really take steps to show the public the wealth that lies in our fisheries, and, moreover, until it goes further, and by reasonable experiment and reasonable expenditure, shows that the thing can be made a commercial success.
The great difficulty in my opinion that the Board will be up against is the question of capitalisation. The whole question in this matter is a question of sufficient funds. It was recommended in the Gaeltacht Report that a capital sum of, I think, a quarter of a million should be placed at the disposal of some such body as is now being constituted. I understand that the proposal is to pass a certain amount in the annual Estimate. It would be much better if a definite sum were car-marked, as has been done in the case of the Shannon Board, the Barrow Drainage, and other things. If, from the commencement, the directors are able to tackle this question on a large commercial scale, the work of re-organisation will take a considerable time. It is going to be extremely troublesome and costly. If, this day twelve months, not much progress has been made, except in the actual development of the industry, but if all the foundations have been laid for building up the organisation, which I can foresee is going to be exceedingly troublesome, since this Board is going to take control and responsibility for the catches, and the whole marketing is going to be taken in hands by them, it is going to be an extremely difficult task. It would be fatal if the Board, who have not the opportunities that they should have, and who cannot for a long time decide what actually their expenditure will be, in the opening stages of their work should be held up for lack of finance. There is no use in asking them to undertake this work on a piecemeal scale and to dole out small amounts to them. We must hold the Minister for Finance to what he said in this House on the 2nd May, 1928:—
If a well-thought out scheme were propounded, it might be better to face a period of five, six or seven years during which considerable expenditure could be made to determine whether even with that large expenditure there would be considerable development in the fisheries.
That is the opinion of the Minister for Finance.
It would be interesting to know whether his Department and his officials live up to it. I have an idea that they do not see this development in the way that I think all parties and Deputies would like to see it; that is, an industry on which a really genuine and big effort should be made, and upon which, as the Minister for Finance admitted, perhaps in a moment of enthusiasm —if our Ministers can be said to suffer from that—a well thought-out scheme with considerable expenditure for five or six or seven years, would be really worth the money if we felt that that was necessary, and was going to bring results.
With regard to the Estimate in general, the amount available for the fisheries service has been reduced by £8,470. I do not know why that should be, why we should not grant the amount voted last year, and, in the event of the Board taking over the work of distributing this money, why that could not be done later on. It seems to me not to be a sound excuse to say that the Board will start this work. The Board may not actually be able to get into the work for several months, and I see no reason why the estimates for the fisheries service should be cut down. The Minister referred to these reductions. The amount for boats and gear is only £1,250, and for re-conditioning boats, £150. I do not know how the Minister can expect the House to believe that these amounts are commensurate with what ought to be spent, particularly the £150. If the whole industry is being got under way, that amount is very small, unless the Department have all their boats in a much better condition than we think.
With regard to fisheries protection, there is the objection that the present protection is inadequate, and that the Minister should long ago have made provision for dealing with the protection of fisheries.
As to the inland fisheries, I do not know what State fishery rights mean. They are going to cost £1,000. I do not know whether that means that the State is buying over certain inland fishery rights. If that is so, we should like to have some information about it.
Many Deputies on this side would be glad to see a large expenditure on fish hatcheries. They seem to be confined to a small number of areas, and, in view of the enormous potentialities of the salmon and inland fishing generally, it would perhaps be advisable to increase the amount spent on hatcheries.
With regard to rural industries, I am very pleased to see that steps are being taken to develop them. Unless the industries are developed in a short space of time, there will be actually nobody left in the Gaeltacht to work them, whereas if steps had been taken before now, or could be taken within the next year, to give employment to a large number of young people who would otherwise emigrate, the Department would certainly do immense good for the country. The Minister has not told us what the £12,000 is actually being spent upon in connection with the purchase of raw materials. I should like to know exactly what products are going to be turned out. The practice of the Department in training workers who have been working in these industries in design and in management, so that they can undertake the management of these industries themselves, is a very good one. I hope that the Minister will be able to extend the practice of giving greater technical instruction to those girls in the work of designing and so on.
With regard to the question of vocational instruction, for which some money is made available, there has been no effort made up to the present to get going the continuation schools which were promised for the instruction of young men anxious to take up fishing. I note that there is no provision in the Estimate for minor marine works, and I cannot see any estimate in the Public Works Department for them. Although we are placed at a disadvantage in discussing this question, as we have not the report of the Ports and Harbours Tribunal before us, there is a general feeling, especially in the poorer fishing areas, that a great deal of leeway has to be made up in conditioning the piers and fitting out landing places.
We are glad to hear that the Minister is dealing with loans arrears. There are one thousand cases. He has not told us how many cases have been dealt with, but he says the Committee are working very hard and that there are over one hundred cases under consideration. I wish the Minister could tell us that a certain number of cases had been definitely disposed of. Although we recognise the difficulties of going into each case separately, nevertheless, when a certain number, say, fifty cases, have been dealt with, some general principles should be established which should make it easier to deal with the remainder in a short time.
One other matter I wish to refer to is the question of certain alterations in the inland fisheries. The Minister has promised a Bill to deal with the question of illegalities in connection with the election of Conservators.
Another matter I have frequently urged is the question of opening the fishing season at an earlier date. I am told that the position is that the Minister, so long as he secures a fishing season of not more than 197 days, has power to alter the dates. There is a definite feeling in the country and amongst experts that the later months of the season, such as May or June, are practically worthless, and we have examples where, even at the end of April, fishermen have had to give up fishing. I have an extract from the "Fishing News" dated August 11th, 1928, which is still applicable. It says:—
Some few years ago the salmon season proper—February to May —never paid the men for their expenditure on boats, nets and gear; but the peal season in June and July made up well for the deficit, the boats landing them daily, often in hundreds. Of late the tendency has been for the mature fish to be caught in increasing numbers while the peal diminished rapidly This year has established a new record, only very few peal being taken in occasional ones and twos. As a matter of fact the great majority of the fishermen hauled up their boats early in June, there being no prospect of fish. So far no satisfactory explanation of the phenomenon has been suggested, the oldest and keenest fishermen being mystified.
It is said by those who are anglers that these laws were made about 60 years ago and there is no reason why, if Waterville River is opened on 1st June, the Shannon and other rivers should not be opened on this date. I believe the Minister had an inquiry into this matter of the Blackwater and I would be glad if he would tell us what is the latest information at the disposal of his Department in connection with it. Is it a fact that the time fishing season does not correspond with the season as laid down in the bye-laws, and if that is so and if the fishing season in recent years is quite different to the season as laid down in the bye-laws I would like to ask the Minister whether he would not think it well to give the fishermen an opportunity of getting some advantage by way of starting earlier in the season. There is no doubt that fish come in very early and if it is a natural thing that salmon come in early in January I see no reason at all why the fishing season should not begin when nature says the salmon must be coming up.